My first location event shoot.

patrickL

patrickL

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Hi all, I'm new to the forum I've been a member of the forums and sometime and looked at many posts that have never posted anything myself.
But here goes.

My wife works for Medway Maritime Foundation Trust and is involved in helping people with cancer.

This means she has close contact with the Macmillan Cancer Research charity. On 26th November Richard Watts Christmas charity ball took place at the Hilton hotel Maidstone.

The event was to raise money for cancer research and to celebrate and say thanks to a very special person who had been involved in setting up the Macmillan Cancer Care Unit for the Medway towns.

They had arranged for a photographer to take photographs on the evening of the 26th. The photographer had intended to charge them for the evenings shoot, and then the photographs but giving a percentage of 10% of the takings to the charity.

As my wife & I had already intended to go to the Christmas ball, and had purchased tickets, they asked if I was interested in taking photographs on the evening and producing prints for people to buy.

As I was keen to pursue further development of my photographic skills by doing location event photography, I said that I would give it a go. I wouldn’t charge from my time, so at least the charity would get all of the money we made by selling the photographs. I made some plans and alterations to equipment adding additional equipment specifically for the evening.

In the past I have done a great deal of studio work, so have a bit of experience in lighting techniques. I had been practising various lighting techniques before this event came up, so I felt confident that I could produce a good result on the night.

I gathered up all my equipment and must say I probably went overboard, as I wasn’t quite sure what to expect I did manage to go down to the hotel on the Sunday before the evening’s event. to have a look at the hotel’s venue and speak to somebody about the location I was going to be using on the evening of the event.

I decided that I would not use a plain background as I wanted to develop a different style and also show that the event took place in a specific place rather than just plain background which many could have been anywhere.

I took some pre shots of the area that they suggested that I could use, it didn’t seem too bad. I could use the corridor to frame the subjects and a lovely chandelier hanging down in the area in the corridor.

However one should always double check by talking directly to the manager and making sure that the facts given are correct.

I had intended to get the venue at around 5:30 which would have given me an hour and a half to set up all the equipment and be in place for 6:45 so I still had time to get changed into my tux, however it took a little longer than anticipated.

For all of my planning, we arrived about a quarter of an hour late, loaded all the equipment onto a baggage trolley and started to go to the area that was suggested in my first visit.

I took a great deal of equipment, because I didn’t want to chance having to go back home if I had forgotten something, luckily I didn’t need to take it all inside.

When I got to the area that I thought we were going to do the shoot, I was told by the manager that we couldn’t shoot in this particular area, as people would be queuing up to put their coats and collect their coats from the cloakroom.

She then said normally we have the photographer located in the in a corner of the main lobby and he normally shoots up against the curtains.

I have a very quick look around, didn’t really want to shoot against curtains but the lobby had lots of hanging lights so lots of reflections, I picked a particular corner and said that I will shoot into the lobby as a backdrop.

I set up my equipment with a tethering from my camera to my laptop so that people could see the photographs as I took the shots.

I had tested all this previously. But on the evening I had meant to change the settings in my camera, so the auto off did not apply. This was to prevent the camera from switching off whilst I’m setting people up.

Unfortunately I forgot to do this. The evening started to go quite well, people started to arrive but I hadn’t yet got changed, so I rushed off and quickly got changed.

When I got back to the camera position, it had turned its self off . This meant the tethering to my laptop had stopped, people standing in position waiting for me to take the photographs, how embarrassing. I was having great difficulty, getting the tethering to come back on. Never mind I still took a fair few shots. Only had about 20 minutes of taking pictures of people, it was then time to go into dinner.

Spent about an hour sitting down and socialising, I then decided that whilst other things going on I needed to set up the printer ready to print out all the pictures, I had previously taken. So to the dismay of my wife I left the table and went off, to set up the printer, I managed to get most of the prints printed. I thought they were not too bad, could do with a little bit of finessing but all quite reasonable.

I came back to the dinner table, only to find that my pudding had gone, I had missed coffee and they had cleared the table. So I missed out. After dinner people started to mill around again and the music started. As I still had all my lights in place, and set up. People asked me if I could do some group shots, which I did.

Then went back to the printer and printed them by this time it was 11:30pm in the evening. I enjoyed the last 30 mins of the music, packed up all the equipment, took it back to the car and finished at about 1:30.am.

I enjoyed the shoot, it was extremely tiring and there are a few things that I would now do differently but overall was a good experience. Probably wouldn’t do any more printing on the night as that’s probably the most stressful part apart from the tethering not working correctly.

I think I did quite well with the photographs and the new technique that I’m using I’m hoping that I can do more location photography with the new portable lighting equipment.

Patrick Langley.

Please see link below for some pictures to CC. Thanks.

http://www.photograph4u.co.uk/Blog/?page_id=24
 
An interesting story that the charity decided to cancel the originally booked photographer to be replaced by an inexperienced person who not only attended for free but purchsed tickets too! Sorry I'm not having a go at you but I do question the scuples of such people. I'm assuming you are not a full time pro so your acceptance has caused the original guy to lose out on an evenings earnings, again not your doing.

Regarding your experience I would ask in hindsight should you have excepted this event? The charity was in a win win situation with you but the stress it seemed to have caused plus your wife was dissapointed you left halfway through the meal to setup your printer. Whenever I attend a venue for the first time I always arrive early with no exception. Things are never as they are supposed to be and I'd rather hang around for an hour than be unprepared and keep customers waiting.

Having looked at your website It appears you wasnt that busy anyway unless they are just a sample of the images taken. There are many faults with your posing, grouping and cropping but with events a good expression should be enough to sell a print.

My advice to anyone wanting to get into events is to actually attend a few first to see how its run. Of course you may end up with a badly run one and be non the wiser but eventually you should attend a well run one and that will be your yardstick. Last year I wrote a couple of posts regarding event photography and setting up so maybe worth doing a search for those.
 
Two people got turned over in this deal, the professional who was cancelled and ....you!

I'm sorry, but having read your thread and looked at the photos, I would be pretty disappointed if it had been my responsibility for hiring/firing the photographer.
 
Two people got turned over in this deal, the professional who was cancelled and ....you!
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Actually there were three - you missed out the charity.

I don't know how much you took, and therefore how much you paid in commission, but a decent professional event photographer who does this for a living should have been able to make a substantial commission payment to the charity for such an event. It is after all a fundraising event.

Likewise you don't say how many guests attended, but I'd expect to be busy pretty much all evening whereas you seen to have fitted the photography around the dinner, socialising and the music.

As per Grahams comments, I'm not having a go, and it's interesting to read your experience, but your evening didn't really do anyone any favours.
 
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Yeah I bet that wasn't the response you expected but I have to say I agree here.

I don't really do work of this kind (well, now and again) but I do know the Maidstone Hilton well :) So it's entirely possible I know the person who spent a night in front of XFactor instead of fund raising here....

I charge quite a lot for what I do and lots of people quibble. But my answer is always that I sell certainty. If I take on a job then it will get done. I'd expect the pro they had booked to be the same. 15 mins late, then having to move locations, then camera issues....well these don't happen (or rather they don't impact on the job - out of interest that's the spot they always use for these shots). Plus as Jerm says a pro would expect to sell a lot at a gig like this bringing lots of money to the charity.

The crazy thing is that even if they hated your work (and I'll bet they don't) they almost certainly won't go back to a professional next time. Why would they when they can get somebody to do it for free....?

Pics look OK but rather inconsistent. You'd have found it easier if you'd shot consistently through the night. You'd have sold more if you framed looser.
 
Well, I expected to get some criticism of my photography and pictures of them and how I took them. But I didn't expect to the completely obliterated about taking away work from a photographer.
The point I make is that I actually charge the charity nothing for my time I provided all the equipment I provided all the printing equipment and I asked for nothing in return. I was hoping after reading many comments on this foru m that I would get some good feedback as to whether my photographs were good or bad.
But it is appears the law people are worried about is whether they lose money or not.
All constructive criticisms about my photographs are welcome.
There was around 80 people at the event, many of whom were my wife's colleagues.
In the original photographer so I understand it was going to charge them for pricing given 10% on photographs that he sold.
Things I would have done differently I would have had more Help with the printing this was the biggest difficulty.
Yes it was a stressful evening, but I did enjoy the experience.
I think everybody that when away with a photograph of the evening's events, were quite pleased. It was announced that I wasn't professional photographer and I've given up my time freely for the charity.
I didn't count the money but I think they made around £***.
This was the first time I've ever done and event. It also was a first time that I was using the lighting setup the I was using.
I used two 580 EX speed lights and, behind a 3X6 Lastolite panel mounted up of a high angle looking down on the groups out towards the reception.
With easy box and downloads my feet with one of 580 EX lighting from below.
Thanks for all the comments.
 
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jingphotography said:
So what would you suggest Patrick to do in order to secure the job, Jerm, Jonathan?
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TBH I wouldn't. Go read the business forum. Plenty of people in there quite literally worried about how they are going to pay the mortgage next month.

I'm pretty fortunate that I have quite a lot of work in the diary ATM but I know I've lost work worth thousands to people having a go for free. Some of those will have done a decent job - most won't. But it's still work that won't come back.

Taking one charity do of a pro won't make a great deal of difference in the scheme of things but there's some quote about snowflakes and avalanches.

Well, I expected to get some criticism of my photography and pictures of them and how I took them.
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It's hard from the small sample on the web (event photographers are generally judged on the worst image they produce rather than their best) but as I've said, they look alright. More consistency with framing would have given a more uniform look and many people would call this "more professional". It would also make it easier and faster to print and mount. Looser framing would allow you to sell different versions (6X4 / 7X5 / 10X8) or more easily sell your chosen format - many of those wouldn't give an acceptable 10X8. Heads are right against the top in most images and that's always bad - even if they print OK the mount can eat up space.

Both large groups have several obscured faces. Pre-penultimate image looks out of focus. A gel on the lights would have helped a bit with the orange cast (you're shooting mixed flash and ambient and I know from experience that the lights in the Hilton Maidstone suck). The second group, the woman in red has an alarming cast to her skin and the woman in black has been tangoed I suspect you've been hit by the curse of the downlighters.

Lighting sounds a little complex and failure prone for the results you got - a studio head with a nice softbox would have given a similar look with far fewer points of failure.

From your first write up it sounded like 20 minutes of shooting plus printing selling etc had spoiled an otherwise enjoyable evening for you since you missed half your dinner and most of the music. But it seems you enjoyed the experience.

ETA: seen the larger pic on your blog. Ignore comments about red dress and black dress tango. They have tan lines so skin tone is probably inconsistent....
 
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With regard to your images, I'm not an event tog, so feel free to disregard my views.
However that may make me a little bit less critical. I really don't think that they're too bad, I've seen far worse. I would watch your crop ratios (my pet hate), no two are the same, that must make your editing harder. I'd have thrown the backgrounds a tad more OOF.
 
JonathanRyan said:
It's hard from the small sample on the web (event photographers are generally judged on the worst image they produce rather than their best) but as I've said, they look alright. More consistency with framing would have given a more uniform look and many people would call this "more professional". It would also make it easier and faster to print and mount. Looser framing would allow you to sell different versions (6X4 / 7X5 / 10X8) or more easily sell your chosen format - many of those wouldn't give an acceptable 10X8. Heads are right against the top in most images and that's always bad - even if they print OK the mount can eat up space.

Both large groups have several obscured faces. Pre-penultimate image looks out of focus. A gel on the lights would have helped a bit with the orange cast (you're shooting mixed flash and ambient and I know from experience that the lights in the Hilton Maidstone suck). The second group, the woman in red has an alarming cast to her skin and the woman in black has been tangoed I suspect you've been hit by the curse of the downlighters.

Lighting sounds a little complex and failure prone for the results you got - a studio head with a nice softbox would have given a similar look with far fewer points of failure.
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Jonathan, Thanks to all the comments whether good or bad.
I appreciate honesty in my work.
Thanks to anybody that likes what I have done.


http://www.photograph4u.co.uk/Blog/#107
 
I'm not going to look at the pictures, it's too easy to pick fault when the pictures are of non-models and taken in a time sensitive environment. As long as the people that bought them are happy then that should just about be good enough.

Never, ever attend the event socially if your shooting. If your already booked to attend then request an additional ticket and let the wife take her best friend and her husband for company. You haven't got time to socialise at these events and if you do socialise your mind will be on what you feel you should be doing, you'll be poor company.

Work out the very latest time you can get there in order that everything is set up in good time. Then get there at least an hour earlier. Things go wrong, traffic jams happen.

As you have already worked out, never speak to someone whop works at the Hotel. Always speak to the person who will be the duty manager on the night.

If you have to shoot in a corner with a nasty background then so be it. You can't govern what the venue will allow.

Ask the Manager if you can use a larger are for group shots after dinner. If they allow this then use the after dinner period as your playtime!

Don't take anything into the venue until you've met the manager on the night. Things change.

If the event has an M.C. then introduce yourself to him, he can announce your presence and encourage people toward you.

If it's a slow night, speak to the ladies, ask them if they would like thier picture taken. It's the wives that make the decision, not the men.

Use an additional screen for the subjects to preview the shots. I use one mounted on a tripod so that it can face the background. It saves a lot of time when taking group shots. If they don't like what they see on the screen, re-take it. It'll be the women who want it re-taken because they aren't happy with thier pose or thier eyes were shut.

Take the payment for the picture as soon as they say they are happy with it. If they ask for multiple shots tell them that they can get additional prints after dinner, they will come back for them. This saves you having to take notes of how many of each print and saves precious time.

Try and get the couples shots done before dinner. If they want group shots then offer to do them after dinner. Group shots take too long to set up, pre-dinner you've got about 45mins maximum to get as many shots done as you can.

Never, ever drink anything except water. Alchohol will make you intolerent, fizzy drinks, tea or coffee will make you use the toilet too often.

Processing and printing is done whilst they are having dinner. Have the prints ready for them to collect as soon as the speaches have finished. If you have a display board, use it. If not, lay them out on a covered table.

Grab a sandwich whilst your printing, doing so helps keep your energy and tolerence levels up for round two - the after dinner shoot. Get that background out and any additional lights you may need. Don't forget the Gaffa tape! You'll be lost without it but it's primary use is for taping over any cables to reduce and cover any trip hazard but you'll be amazed the uses you'll find for it.

After dinner do the group shots. The punters will be "lubricated" and the money flows free'er and you'll sell multiples of each shot.

Have fun with the groups, smile a lot but never, ever let them near the backdrop with any drink. Backdrops attract wine. Fact.

The most important bit of allmake sure you have the legalities covered
Liability insurance is an absolute must.
Make sure that if anything has a plug on it that it also has one of those stickers (PAC?) to show it's been tested. Without that the venue may refuse to let you use them.

People think that event shooting is easy, it's not.

Your dealing with the public in a high stress job. On the night, regardless of experience you are the Pro. You're expected to give excellent results and enhance the punters evening. Tact, diplomacy, sublime patience and a cool, level head are required at all times. You need an intimate knowledge of your equipment, it's capabilities and limitations. If the F-up fairy visits you then you'll need to know how to overcome it quickly.

There are many variables that can go wrong. Thats why I have four heads plus two spares. I have three guns with rechargable battery packs, but still carry spare packs with ordinary batteries. Two bodies is a minumum, both with cards (and spare cards) and wireless file transfer to the laptop so even if the card or laptop fails the pictures are automatically backed up. Shoot tethered if you haven't a wireless transmitter. There's a spare laptop in the car.

Everything is doubled up except the dye-sub but that will be soon as well.

When you're shooting black-tie events you have around 45 minutes from when the punters arrive to when they go in for dinner to make your money. You're not there for fun, this is what put food on the table.

I hope that helps
 
:plusone:

All the above !!

Great reply Rich....This is exactly how it is and all the preps that need to be done to avoid failure and disapointment.

Patrick, I think armed with the above and your experience gained in Maidstone, I think you will be better prepared for your next one. Good Luck and I wish you well with it !
 
Patrick, I'm glad you've posted this and whilst I think that accepting the gig in the knowledge that they had already arranged another photographer out of a nights income is practically unforgivable, I can understand why you did it. However, I think you can learn loads from this.

For me the key learning point comes from this statement:

The photographer had intended to charge them for the evenings shoot, and then the photographs but giving a percentage of 10% of the takings to the charity.
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If you decide to continue down the event photographer line make sure that the contracts you issue to clients include a fee payable in the event of cancellation so that if your clients do what this "charity" did to the other photographer you are protected against the loss in earnings. In addition you might consider not charging for attendance if the numbers of people attending is over a certain number (reduces the risk of clients wanting to cancel if they get an offer of a freebie) although if you do, put in a clause where you can charge (or withhold commission) if the numbers are lower than stated.
 
Patrick (and Simon), it's not unforgivable at all. It's life.

Whilst it's all lovely fluffy bunnies and nice to think that life is fair, it isn't. Most of us who have made it through to adulthood realise this.

You got the gig, the original tog didn't. You got the opportunity to learn.

Maybe you learned that it's not as easy as it looks and that you don't want to do it again.
Maybe you learned that there's a right and wrong way and next time you'll do it better. It's all a learning curve.

Event photography didn't really take off properly in this country until the advent of Digital. Before that it was a lot more hassle to get the print's back on the night. Most of us relied on a D&P facility local to the event staying open so that we could get the prints back and make the sales. Then we'd stand there, behind a table hoping that the punters weren't so drunk that they'd walk straight past you at the end of the night. , Christ, the amount of prints that used to get thrown away was horrendous. Now we are all digital that doesn't happen. The equipment outlay is huge but the margins are far better than they were. That's why event 'togs are so protective and like to make it seem like it's a dark, mysterious art. It's not.

But it is bloody hard work and sometimes the returns are really, really bad.

But to call your actions "unforgivable"? That's harsh and unrealistic. There is only one person who is going to make your career as a pro-tog happen. YOU. No-one is going to hand it to you on a plate, no-one is going to give you a second chance if you screw a job up.

You were thrown a chance, you took it and you didn't pretend to be a fully fledged, experienced eventer.

maybe you'll do some more, maybe you'll give it up as a lesson learned the hard way. But don't let anyone ever tell you that undercutting or offering a free booking to get a job is wrong. It's a way into the business.
 
sheddy said:
Patrick (and Simon), it's not unforgivable at all. It's life.

Whilst it's all lovely fluffy bunnies and nice to think that life is fair, it isn't. Most of us who have made it through to adulthood realise this.

You got the gig, the original tog didn't. You got the opportunity to learn.

Maybe you learned that it's not as easy as it looks and that you don't want to do it again.
Maybe you learned that there's a right and wrong way and next time you'll do it better. It's all a learning curve.

Event photography didn't really take off properly in this country until the advent of Digital. Before that it was a lot more hassle to get the print's back on the night. Most of us relied on a D&P facility local to the event staying open so that we could get the prints back and make the sales. Then we'd stand there, behind a table hoping that the punters weren't so drunk that they'd walk straight past you at the end of the night. , Christ, the amount of prints that used to get thrown away was horrendous. Now we are all digital that doesn't happen. The equipment outlay is huge but the margins are far better than they were. That's why event 'togs are so protective and like to make it seem like it's a dark, mysterious art. It's not.

But it is bloody hard work and sometimes the returns are really, really bad.

But to call your actions "unforgivable"? That's harsh and unrealistic. There is only one person who is going to make your career as a pro-tog happen. YOU. No-one is going to hand it to you on a plate, no-one is going to give you a second chance if you screw a job up.

You were thrown a chance, you took it and you didn't pretend to be a fully fledged, experienced eventer.

maybe you'll do some more, maybe you'll give it up as a lesson learned the hard way. But don't let anyone ever tell you that undercutting or offering a free booking to get a job is wrong. It's a way into the business.
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:thumbs:
 
You're right Richard, undercutting or offering a free booking is a way to get into the business (although a good number of event togs attend for free anyway so a bit difficult to undercut them). You are also right that the only person to make a success of a pro-tog career is the pro-tog. There is plenty of work out there for everyone; all people need to do is get off their backsides and find it for themselves. I'm sorry if I find it "practically unforgivable" that someone knowingly steals a gig after a photographer has been arranged by undercutting them - just to get into the business. I did say that I understand why people might want to do it, but I personally find it unethical to steal work.

Equally, you are damn right that life isn't fair, I know it and the tog who had his work cancelled certainly knows it. I think my suggestion on how Patrick can protect his business from future wannabes undercutting him once he's won a gig in the future, will help him, should he decide to go on, is that an being "protective"?

From my experience Event 'togs are certainly the opposite of "protective", the knowlege that Snapzz, Mike Weeks, Jerm and many others have freely given me either directly or indirectly has certainly helped me build my event business. There are also a togs on this forum who know first hand that I am also more than happy to share what knowlege I have helping them startup.

I personally don't care how many event togs there are out there, what I care about is that any event tog out there do things well - even on their first job. I care not for me, not for the togs profits (which by doing things well will be better than doing it badly), but for the people who are important; the clients and their guests. By giving a good experience a client will be more likely to book an event photographer next time, if not the original photographer another photographer.
 
Some of you guys on her are really full of it aren't you.....

I know. Patrick VERY well, and have spoken to him about this and quite rightly he's not best pleased for 2 reasons.

1) Very few of you have actually commented on his work, which is what his post was about. He was looking for advice on what he could have done better other than one very good post I think that was a bit lacking.

2). The charity had cancelled the original photographer before it was suggested that Pat could potentially help out. Read his OP again, his wife works closely with the charity concerned, he gave his time and all the materials free. The deal to pro Tog was offering was not going to provide the charity with much in the way of money (plus the pro expected a free dinner for him & his assistant!).

The OP went out of his way, spent money on equipment, and put himself through a stressful evening for the charity. In fact I was going to help out but couldn't make it on the night.

Some people come on here for advice and to learn. I've seen his studio work and it's better than some of the pro's on here produce, and today he tells me that he doubts whether he'll. Use the forum again. I do wonder myself sometimes [shakes head].

Steve

Sent from my iPad using TP Forums
 
Jelster said:
The charity had cancelled the original photographer before it was suggested that Pat could potentially help out.
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I'm sorry. I misinterpreted what he said in the initial post. There is of course a world of difference between stepping in to save the day when the charity get cold feet and effectively pushing somebody out of a job to have a go.

I'd be prepared to bet that most people misunderstood that too.

Understanding that would have changed my first post, but not my comments on the images.
 
Sorry to be blunt Steve but having re-read the OP I have to agree that it definitely does NOT read that he stepped in, it read to me as to others that they cancelled once he was prepared to do it as he was 'going to be there anyway'.
If he had been clearer he would have got an entirely different response, to throw his (and your) toys from the pram is quite frankly ridiculous, have you read his OP?
 
B1ts said:
Sorry to be blunt Steve but having re-read the OP I have to agree that it definitely does NOT read that he stepped in, it read to me as to others that they cancelled once he was prepared to do it as he was 'going to be there anyway'.
If he had been clearer he would have got an entirely different response, to throw his (and your) toys from the pram is quite frankly ridiculous, have you read his OP?
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Yes I have, and my opinion is that a number of people made an assumption without knowing (or asking for clarification of) the facts.

My point is, that considering the very low number of posts that he has, it gives a very poor impression of the forum. I know the Admin team work hard to make this a better place, maybe we, the users, should take on some of that responsibility too.

Oh, and I haven't thrown any toys out yet, but don't worry, you'll know it when I do.

Steve

Sent from my iPad using TP Forums
 
Jelster said:
Yes I have, and my opinion is that a number of people made an assumption without knowing (or asking for clarification of) the facts.

My point is, that considering the very low number of posts that he has, it gives a very poor impression of the forum. I know the Admin team work hard to make this a better place, maybe we, the users, should take on some of that responsibility too.

Oh, and I haven't thrown any toys out yet, but don't worry, you'll know it when I do.

Steve

Sent from my iPad using TP Forums
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Well considering he replied in thread after the 'assumptions' and made absolutely no attempt to remedy them and now there is this new reason all of a sudden I think your opinion is wrong, but that is just my opinion ;)

Nice way to make this a better place to make veiled threats too btw :thumbs:
 
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