music from ipod to mac

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

Dale_d3100 said:
Why?

I plug my Ipod in to my laptop, I walk away and 5 minutes later all my new music, podcasts, my playlists, my listening habits are all syncronised automatically.

I don't have to find my new files or spend time copying files across manually.

Our library is centrally held. That means all music is available everywhere. The iPod/iTunes model is more suited to PERSONAL media storage where there is a 1:1 match of libraries to users.

joescrivens · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
No, you're assuming what I want is not what others want. They do (there are a few how do I do x with the iPod style threads here) just they don't realise they do when they buy the thing in the first place.

That argument would only hold up if the first run of ipods sold and gradually declined. The fact is people have been buying all the new models of ipods since it's conception and the overall experience has stayed the same.

joescrivens · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
Our library is centrally held. That means all music is available everywhere. The iPod/iTunes model is more suited to PERSONAL media storage where there is a 1:1 match of libraries to users.

not sure what you mean?

I can use itunes to play my centrally located music into every room in my house. It's called airplay.

how is that better suited to a 1:1 match?

neil_g · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
I only dislike the iPod after my daughters having them and having to waste time recovering stuff when it's been plugged into the wrong computer and stuff has been erased.

to be fair you do get a nice big warning saying something like "this will erase your ipod"

Dale_tem · 18 Oct 2011

My Dell Server has all our music and films on.

It is shared out by DLNA for my PS3 and my Netgear EVA8000 media player (Twonky actually monitors my iTunes folder for playlists etc. for the music and shares my films folder for films)

Itunes manages the music and podcasts

I then use a number of Airport Express to play the music in a number of rooms

This is controlled via my HTC Desire, my wife's HTC Desire and my Asus Transformer.

I can also use my Phone or tablet as an airplay device and stream music from itunes wirelessly to my phone anywhere in my house.

You have made a decision without investigating. I used to use XBMC under the TV and Netgear MP101s. I moved away from the MP101s due to the poor interface. THe Xbox with XBMC was to noisy and it lacked HD. A PC running XBMC is too slow and complicated.

XBMC is also not a central library, it builds its own database, so you would have to manage multiple XBMC boxes instead of managing a central database. the files may be central, but the thumbnails and additional info such as playlists are held on each XBMC device.

If you have iTunes on a single computer hidden away and you have a single iPod, then yes it is suited to personal media storage and playing, but the same can be said if you have 1 PC and 1 Creative Zune player.

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

joescrivens said:
not sure what you mean?

I can use itunes to play my centrally located music into every room in my house. It's called airplay.

how is that better suited to a 1:1 match?

No, the auto syncing of music to iPod is better suited to a 1:1 library. How, for instance, does itunes know which is my subset of music that is on the server, and which I want to synchronise when

The library is far bigger than the memory on the mp3 player so it can't sync everything
audio playback is done with a completely different software system as the main use of the media centres is to play video. Hence it can't know my listening preferences
I can't say which computer I will be on when I copy the data to my mp3 player

It was said perfectly in a post above by mid_gen:

mid_gen said:
The whole 'iTunes' experience is marvellous if you live in a perfect Apple world, using Apple products exactly the way the Apple gods decided you should. If you want to do things any other way, life quickly becomes very painful.

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

neil_g said:
to be fair you do get a nice big warning saying something like "this will erase your ipod"

Do people actually read those warnings before just clicking OK?

joescrivens · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
No, the auto syncing of music to iPod is better suited to a 1:1 library. How, for instance, does itunes know which is my subset of music that is on the server, and which I want to synchronise when

The library is far bigger than the memory on the mp3 player so it can't sync everything

audio playback is done with a completely different software system as the main use of the media centres is to play video. Hence it can't know my listening preferences

I can't say which computer I will be on when I copy the data to my mp3 player

It was said perfectly in a post above by mid_gen:

When was the last time you used iTunes?

All of the above can be done.

neil_g · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
No, the auto syncing of music to iPod is better suited to a 1:1 library. How, for instance, does itunes know which is my subset of music that is on the server, and which I want to synchronise when

The library is far bigger than the memory on the mp3 player so it can't sync everything

audio playback is done with a completely different software system as the main use of the media centres is to play video. Hence it can't know my listening preferences

I can't say which computer I will be on when I copy the data to my mp3 player

It was said perfectly in a post above by mid_gen:

what is sync'd can be controlled by playlists, checkboxes on individual tracks etc. as i said my music collection far exceed the storage on my ipod.

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

Dale_d3100 said:
You have made a decision without investigating. I used to use XBMC under the TV and Netgear MP101s. I moved away from the MP101s due to the poor interface. THe Xbox with XBMC was to noisy and it lacked HD. A PC running XBMC is too slow and complicated.

Hahahahaahhaha... This may have been so in 2007, but isn't now

You can be up and running with a silent PC for ~£200 and that will play full 1080p/DTS 24p rips flawlessly. They will also stream music and will also display centrally held exports of images from Lightroom

Dale_d3100 said:
XBMC is also not a central library, it builds its own database, so you would have to manage multiple XBMC boxes instead of managing a central database. the files may be central, but the thumbnails and additional info such as playlists are held on each XBMC device.

Err.. I beg to differ. All my xbmcs are linked to a central MySQL database and they all share that. It gets updated once and centrally and shared. Yes, you do have to copy the thumbnails, but that's actually quite easy to automate or share and cross mount (not my preferred method). Have to say, we don't use playlists much here....

chrisgrieve · 18 Oct 2011

hi,

have a look at "SENUTI" my girlfreind used it one and it worked perfectly,
it used to be free i think but now there is a fee of $18 for a licence.

joescrivens · 18 Oct 2011

chrisgrieve said:
hi,

have a look at "SENUTI" my girlfreind used it one and it worked perfectly,
it used to be free i think but now there is a fee of $18 for a licence.

maybe explain what it is?

neil_g · 18 Oct 2011

joescrivens said:
maybe explain what it is?

i think hes responding to the original question.. hard to believe i know..

joescrivens · 18 Oct 2011

neil_g said:
i think hes responding to the original question.. hard to believe i know..

AHhhhhhhh, gotcha

cheers!!!

Dale_tem · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
Hahahahaahhaha... This may have been so in 2007, but isn't now You can be up and running with a silent PC for ~£200 and that will play full 1080p/DTS 24p rips flawlessly. They will also stream music and will also display centrally held exports of images from Lightroom

Hahahahaha....??

Yes in 2007 it was, but I can now buy devices for £50 to play files across a network, do I need to spend £200 on silent PC?? With a PS3 I get blu ray, 4OD, ITV player, Iplayer, Love Film, all music, all my films, all my photos and a games console all for £250.

I prefer a box I buy, plug in and work.

Not because its better, its so when I am away I am confident no tweaking is required and my wife and kids can use everything without a problem.

You have chosen a hobbyists method - one that requires more setup and more admin to work. People don't want to do that, they like the simplicity of iTunes and the apple world.

This is why apple are doing well, they provide simple tools that although limited work and work well.

This is why XBMC will stay in the geek closet.

Before you argue, please understand I used to write soft hacking guides for the Xbox and converted a number of people to using XBMC on both the Xbox and on PCs and on Macs including using the Android XBMC remote app. It just can't compete against what iTunes can do.

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

joescrivens said:
When was the last time you used iTunes?

All of the above can be done.

What relevance is that? I never said it couldn't be done (although it would be interesting to see what happened if I plugged my iPod into my partners or her daughters PC and tried to sync my stuff through her account).

neil_g said:
what is sync'd can be controlled by playlists, checkboxes on individual tracks etc. as i said my music collection far exceed the storage on my ipod.

The bottom line is iTunes just doesn't cut it for how we do things around here. I don't want to have to configure software JUST so I can copy stuff to my mp3 player. I just want to copy stuff when I fancy a change of music.

joescrivens · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
What relevance is that? I never said it couldn't be done (although it would be interesting to see what happened if I plugged my iPod into my partners or her daughters PC and tried to sync my stuff through her account).

The relevance is that you said that itunes was only good for 1:1 syncing and then posted three reasons why and you were wrong.

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

Dale_d3100 said:
Hahahahaha....??

Yes in 2007 it was, but I can now buy devices for £50 to play files across a network, do I need to spend £200 on silent PC?? With a PS3 I get blu ray, 4OD, ITV player, Iplayer, Love Film, all music, all my films, all my photos and a games console all for £250.

Where can you get one for £50 that'll do 1080p/DTS films out through HDMI through wireless? (I need a new box for one of the bedrooms and was going to just buy a Revo, but if there are cheaper elsewhere....). The good thing is that as I don't have my library in any obfuscated format, it should be relatively easy to get anything working.

Bizarrely, we don't have any gaming console here. Just totally not interested....

Dale_d3100 said:
I prefer a box I buy, plug in and work.

Not because its better, its so when I am away I am confident no tweaking is required and my wife and kids can use everything without a problem.

I don't have any qualms about letting partner/kids use what we have when I'm away. The only thing they don't know how to do is rip the discs in the first place, but that's a one of process...

Dale_d3100 said:
You have chosen a hobbyists method - one that requires more setup and more admin to work. People don't want to do that, they like the simplicity of iTunes and the apple world.

No questions on that.

Dale_d3100 said:
This is why apple are doing well, they provide simple tools that although limited work and work well.

The only quarrel I have with them is that it doesn't use easy open standards and so pushes you into buying more stuff from Apple. I guess I don't like being told how to think....

Dale_d3100 said:
This is why XBMC will stay in the geek closet.

That's fine by me

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

joescrivens said:
The relevance is that you said that itunes was only good for 1:1 syncing and then posted three reasons why and you were wrong.

You are being Mr Extremist today

I didn't say it was only good for 1:1 syncing. I just said it was more suited to it. That's two different things

joescrivens · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
You are being Mr Extremist today I didn't say it was only good for 1:1 syncing. I just said it was more suited to it. That's two different things

lol

well I disagree.

and as for apple pushing you into buying more things from them. That's just good business sense and why they are the world's most valuable brand.

Me, I don't really care. If it means I can get what I want more easily then i'm all for it.

Look at the google android market for example. I'm allowed to install whatever I want. But the reality is that from publisher I speak to because of that they aren't interested in providing their content for that market - so whilst I CAN get whatever I want - the things I want aren't on that platform.

Dale_tem · 18 Oct 2011

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-1080P-Media-Player/dp/B001ILFDCK

£77 from Amazon with a 5 second search.

All my music is mp3 and my films are divx or mp4

Windows shares requires an intelligent powerful device at the other end to store a database.

DLNA can use simple clients (phones, netgear MP101s) and also allows client control remotely. It is an open project, but lacks standardisation. If you see a Blu ray player that supports DLNA, I would expect it to stream video, photos and music. Often they can only do music or photos which is pretty useless. DLNA is open and that is the problem, people do bits of it, add their own on and it is suddenly not a standard.

The apple system although closed simply works.

I hate apple with a passion, but they got the music system right and so I use it.

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

joescrivens said:
and as for apple pushing you into buying more things from them. That's just good business sense and why they are the world's most valuable brand.

Yup. And that's why I don't like it. Apple will get too big for it's boots one day (actually, I think that's starting to happen now with the tablet wars) and I think their ultra loyal fanbase will deminish. They're going to have to tread very carefully now they have lost their Messiah...

joescrivens said:
Look at the google android market for example. I'm allowed to install whatever I want. But the reality is that from publisher I speak to because of that they aren't interested in providing their content for that market - so whilst I CAN get whatever I want - the things I want aren't on that platform.

Android (on a tablet) is a classic example of something that got lost due no standards. I think it will peter on for a few years and die a death.

joescrivens · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
Yup. And that's why I don't like it. Apple will get too big for it's boots one day (actually, I think that's starting to happen now with the tablet wars) and I think their ultra loyal fanbase will deminish. They're going to have to tread very carefully now they have lost their Messiah...

do you think that the majority of ipod owners are a loyal fanbase?

macbooks, appletv, imacs, maybe

but with ipads and ipods we have seen non apple fans owning them in their millions which must say something about the products?

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

Dale_d3100 said:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-1080P-Media-Player/dp/B001ILFDCK

£77 from Amazon with a 5 second search.

No network and doesn't do DTS

Dale_d3100 said:
All my music is mp3 and my films are divx or mp4

Mainly FLAC (with some MP3s) and .avi/.mkvs here...

Dale_d3100 said:
Windows shares requires an intelligent powerful device at the other end to store a database.

Why do you need a database. Surely:

Code:

video-|
      +- family
      +- 12-15
      +- 18
audio-|
      +- A-D -|
              + AC-DC

etc is pretty simple to work out...

Dale_d3100 said:
DLNA can use simple clients (phones, netgear MP101s) and also allows client control remotely.

I haven't found a decent, free DLNA client that stores information in a way that is completely customisable. They tend to be completely flat or require a degree to work out how you want to present the data. It's also yet another bit of software you have to install, manage and run.

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

joescrivens said:
do you think that the majority of ipod owners are a loyal fanbase?

No, but I was talking in the bigger sense with fanbase...

joescrivens said:
but with ipads and ipods we have seen non apple fans owning them in their millions which must say something about the products?

Yes, I know. I'd own one or more if they were more open with their data formats. As I said, I don't like having to use yet another program or proprietary formats to get data on (and off) my devices.

I have to say I'm one of the people who doesn't have a use for a tablet, but then I'm a confirmed geek and have more computers around the house than there are people (with a ratio approaching 3:1

)

joescrivens · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
No, but I was talking in the bigger sense with fanbase...

Yes, I know. I'd own one or more if they were more open with their data formats. As I said, I don't like having to use yet another program or proprietary formats to get data on (and off) my devices.

I have to say I'm one of the people who doesn't have a use for a tablet, but then I'm a confirmed geek and have more computers around the house than there are people (with a ratio approaching 3:1 )

would you also say that ease of use means nothing to you?

It sounds like you aren't interested in things being as simple as they can be, you'd rather have complete control of it

Dale_tem · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
Why do you need a database. Surely:

I haven't found a decent, free DLNA client that stores information in a way that is completely customisable. They tend to be completely flat or require a degree to work out how you want to present the data. It's also yet another bit of software you have to install, manage and run.

That is my point. Without a database a client is flat, the database allows you to play with it and shape it how you want. This is where DLNA comes in, it allows you to access playlists, genre and organise the music in different ways. This requires a database and a more complex client.

DLNA should be reading your central database and all the organisation within, central playlists, genre etc. The clients are dumb and store no information, you pick your playlists from the server.

If you are a geek, why not get a tablet?

I remote desktop into my server from my bed from my tablet.

If I need to type lots or I need a specific piece of software, my laptop comes out, otherwise I spend my evenings on my tablet.

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

joescrivens said:
would you also say that ease of use means nothing to you?

It sounds like you aren't interested in things being as simple as they can be, you'd rather have complete control of it

Having complete control over my data allows me to have very easy use for the people that use it. "It just works" is what happens here

It's a question of turning the TV on and scrolling up/down the media (which is segmented into movies, TV, music, pictures) and pressing play on a remote control. You don't even know a computer is driving all of this...

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

Dale_d3100 said:
That is my point. Without a database a client is flat, the database allows you to play with it and shape it how you want. This is where DLNA comes in, it allows you to access playlists, genre and organise the music in different ways. This requires a database and a more complex client.

DLNA should be reading your central database and all the organisation within, central playlists, genre etc. The clients are dumb and store no information, you pick your playlists from the server.

TBH, perhaps what I'm missing is the need to do all of this. Generally, we don't use playlists. It's normally a case of wanting to listen to an album and that's it. We hardly ever use genres or much of the metadata in the music database.

Dale_d3100 said:
If you are a geek, why not get a tablet? I remote desktop into my server from my bed from my tablet.

Been there, done that, didn't use it....

Dale_d3100 said:
If I need to type lots or I need a specific piece of software, my laptop comes out, otherwise I spend my evenings on my tablet.

I use my desktop almost exclusively. It's always on so is as quick to use as any tablet (barring the walk from the living room to the office)....

If we want to browse collectively, I just use the browser on the media centre which has a wireless keyboard tucked away for just such occasions

Dale_tem · 18 Oct 2011

btw I am enjoying this discussion

I've got too much music to listen to just an album and one thing I still haven't found (on any thing) is a quick and easy way to flick through my CD collection, it is still easier to go along the shelf and pick an album to listen to, I don't know why though.

I've moved away from a desktop at home, we have a server in the coat cupboard and then we have 2 laptops, 2 smartphones and a tablet to do everything with. Tablet is instant on whereever I am and great for sharing stuff with the wife in the kitchen etc..

I luckily don't have to do much sitting at a desk work at home, so have been able to get rid of the desk.

I do miss a desk sometimes though, but not often.

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

Everything is ripped to the server when it comes through the door. I sold my CD player 18 months ago (just invested in a decent DAC which everything in the living room goes through) and the only BluRay drive we have is in a PC. Silver discs are ripped then consigned to the garage.

I work from home (when I'm not on here and done a bit much of that today

) so a desk is needed but I have a10ft square room I work from, so desk space isn't too much of an issue. I don't have a laptop (other than work) as I don't have the need for one (I do have an old laptop that gets used as a terminal for some jobs though). My partner and her daughter have one each though. No smartphones here, again, don't see the need for them...

joescrivens · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
Having complete control over my data allows me to have very easy use for the people that use it. "It just works" is what happens here It's a question of turning the TV on and scrolling up/down the media (which is segmented into movies, TV, music, pictures) and pressing play on a remote control. You don't even know a computer is driving all of this...

right but it's like you are providing a service to the people in your house by everything that needs to be done on the back end.

Let me run through a scenario of buying a song and playing it in different places in the house with you the way it works in my home and you tell me all the steps needed for you to do in your system:

1. I open the itunes store on my computer (or iphone or ipad, doesn't matter where)
2. I find the song I want to buy
3. I press purchase
4. I enter my password

Thats it. Thats all I do. Now the song is on my computer. But without doing anything it's also now on my iphone so I can listen to it when I am in the car. It's also on my ipad so I can listen to it on there. When I turn on my TV it's on my AppleTV so I can listen to the song in the living room. I can pick up my phone or ipad and play it to my airport in the bedroom too.

All of this from that one step and I have it on every device in my home and in my car. It's also backed up automatically should I lose it off any of those devices. I dont have to do any syncing or any copying. I just buy the song once.

What steps do you need to do to buy a song and have it play on all your devices?

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

joescrivens said:
What steps do you need to do to buy a song and have it play on all your devices?

Order CD from Amazon (I don't buy compressed music nor will I buy ALAC files as they are proprietary ).
Insert into CD drive, click RIP icon and press F10 to start rip
Click on correct album cover
Wait 5 or so minutes

Will be ripped as a single FLAC file (lossless, which everything here can play - even the mp3 player

) and MP3 copy should I want it on the mp3 player (as above I want to choose when it's sync'd not when the system thinks I want to sync it). All content tagged, embedded images etc...

If I were to buy a FLAC file (see http://www.allflac.com for an example of a site that does that), I'd just decompress the archive and put it on the shared drive. Then run a batch file to rerip as a set of .mp3 files for the MP3 player (although I could just put the FLAC file on the MP3 player as it plays them fine).

Backup happens automatically overnight. Same process with films (although no backup as I'm a cheapskate). Photos are just an export from Lightroom.

The bit you're missing is I don't want to use itunes as it doesn't cut the mustard when I'm playing films. I don't want to switch between different programs to play music and video. I'm very happy with xbmc for that as it's a perfectly consistent interface. Whilst you're playing in the perfect Apple world (just look at the device list you have syncing

) and are happy with the way Apple does things, I'm not. I guess I could use the xbmc DAAP interface which interfaces with itunes, but why? I don't have any iPxds, so no need for the software in the first place....

Dale_tem · 18 Oct 2011

my HTC desire can sync with iTUnes, it is definatley not an apple product.

How would your situation compare to my ipod in my car?

It fails. My ipod goes in the glovebox, i select the playlist, podcast or album from the stereo and off it goes. It will pause the ipod when my phone rings and resume when the call has ended. I can change tracks using the buttons on my steering wheel.

I've tried a normal mp3 player - you have to use the device to control the music. My stereo can also access files via usb, this requires over a minute when you start the car to build up the database so it can offer you artist, genre or album. It can't offer you a playlist.

I've also tried media from my phone which is the 2nd best to the ipod. It is connected via bluetooth and controls the basic play, pause, next and previous from the stereo.

The ipod wins as it is a thoughtout solution with all the accessories you want.

joescrivens · 18 Oct 2011

arad85 said:
Order CD from Amazon (I don't buy compressed music nor will I buy ALAC files as they are proprietary ).

Insert into CD drive, click RIP icon and press F10 to start rip

Click on correct album cover

Wait 5 or so minutes

Will be ripped as a single FLAC file (lossless, which everything here can play - even the mp3 player ) and MP3 copy should I want it on the mp3 player (as above I want to choose when it's sync'd not when the system thinks I want to sync it). All content tagged, embedded images etc...

If I were to buy a FLAC file (see http://www.allflac.com for an example of a site that does that), I'd just decompress the archive and put it on the shared drive. Then run a batch file to rerip as a set of .mp3 files for the MP3 player (although I could just put the FLAC file on the MP3 player as it plays them fine).

Backup happens automatically overnight. Same process with films (although no backup as I'm a cheapskate). Photos are just an export from Lightroom.

The bit you're missing is I don't want to use itunes as it doesn't cut the mustard when I'm playing films. I don't want to switch between different programs to play music and video. I'm very happy with xbmc for that as it's a perfectly consistent interface. Whilst you're playing in the perfect Apple world (just look at the device list you have syncing ) and are happy with the way Apple does things, I'm not. I guess I could use the xbmc DAAP interface which interfaces with itunes, but why? I don't have any iPxds, so no need for the software in the first place....

so to get your song onto more than 1 device take a alot more effort and a lot more time? but you are happier because you got to control each part yourself?

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

Dale_d3100 said:
How would your situation compare to my ipod in my car?

I have a car that is pre-iPood days, so I use shiny silver discs instead

Dale_tem · 18 Oct 2011

So do I

I just bought a new stereo for it

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

joescrivens said:
so to get your song onto more than 1 device take a alot more effort and a lot more time? but you are happier because you got to control each part yourself?

Huh? Once it's ripped it's on all devices apart from my mp3 player (edit: and a 10 year olds phone). And I don't always want the latest track to be available on my mp3 player anyway - it might be (in fact it normally is) a CD for a 10 year old girl. I will tend to put that on her phone via USB, but there's no way a 10 year old is getting a £400 phone so she can get the track on it 2 minutes earlier than if I plugged it into my PC....

I'm happier to wait as the quality of the rip is better, not because I got to control it myself.

arad85 · 18 Oct 2011

Dale_d3100 said:
So do I

I just bought a new stereo for it

LOL...

Dale_tem · 18 Oct 2011

Last question - can you play the same album in perfect time in all the rooms in your house? Can you control this centrally via 1 remote and can you adjust the volume independantly for each room from this remote?