Multiple shootings in Paris

dejongj said:
That is because he didn't do it for religious believes, it just isn't the same at all.
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"I want a monocultural Christian Europe" - Anders Breivik

"Europeans are culturally Christian, it doesn't matter if you have a personal relationship with Jesus." - Anders Breivik

"I am a modern day crusader." - Anders Breivik

So he believes that all "true" Europeans are "culturally Christian" whether they take interest in the religion or not. He wanted to fight for a "monoculture" - i.e. he believed cultural Christianity should be the ONLY culture in Europe and all other cultures should be pushed out, violently if necessary. And he identified with the crusaders and knights templar, who were Christian warriors fighting for the expansion and defence of their religious beliefs.
 
Perhaps pick another day to pick that fight and the argument can be ripped apart. He was a lone lunatic who did not do it in name of not for Christianity. ;)

@ghoti êtes-vous Charlie?
 
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I have to say though, I do find the whole "Je suis Charlie" bandwagon a bit like a chicken bone in the throat.
 
dejongj said:
@ghoti êtes-vous Charlie?
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If you mean to ask whether I support freedom of expression and satire, yes I do.

The "je suis Charlie" thing is a bit pompous, though. Particularly as it seems unlikely that many of the people declaring "je suis Charlie" would have the courage to put themselves in the same position as Stéphane Charbonnier. I suspect most would cave to terrorists' demands. As, indeed, was demonstrated by the entire British press.
 
It will be temporary, however I think it is rather extraordinary what has been happening today in Paris. Personally I'm deeply disappointed in the general British reaction and response especially from the press and unwillingness to step up and participate. That could backfire big time.

Then again this is how Charlie Hebdo described the relationship with Europe.

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ghoti said:
If you mean to ask whether I support freedom of expression and satire, yes I do.

The "je suis Charlie" thing is a bit pompous, though. Particularly as it seems unlikely that many of the people declaring "je suis Charlie" would have the courage to put themselves in the same position as Stéphane Charbonnier. I suspect most would cave to terrorists' demands. As, indeed, was demonstrated by the entire British press.
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Yes I don't disagree, but there is hope in numbers now which may encourage those that didn't dare before. Interestingly I cross posted with you as I fully agree about the British press reaction.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
sorry, I didn't mean that to come across the way it has. I wasn't questioning Ruth's thoughts on the killings, merely implying that the killings were also asinine.
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Fair does, crossed wires, no probs.
 
simonblue said:
Because people are just jumping on a bandwagon next week it will be old news,as i said what about those poor girls that were kidnap no one reporting on that anymore its just become old news :(
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I don't disagree that it will be removed from the news agenda, and hopefully one day it will never return. Until such time it is better to discuss and have those conversations out in the open and rejects it publicly.

I can't quite figure out why the events in Paris have been so particularly different that it can get even support on very short notice from Israel, Palestine, Jordan in the same line of solidarity. I'm not naive enough to believe that everything will be ok when we wake up in the morning. However, it is the biggest breakthrough and rejection I've seen in a long time. Them and the several million other people joining in, despite taking offence with most of the cartoons from Charlie Hebdo is exactly what is required.

But unfortunately, more attacks by fundamental Muslims will occur and continue. I think it will actually get worse before it gets better, but I hope more people become brave enough to standup from within.

It would be really powerful if everyones website had the slogan on their page and stop being afraid of offending Muslims.
 
Hmm one to watch....I'm in two minds about it...Emotionally I'd like to support them, however without trial and justice system aren't they doing exactly the same thing that they say they are again....

As I agree with them I like it, but that doesn't make their action right and justified....
 
dejongj said:
I don't disagree that it will be removed from the news agenda, and hopefully one day it will never return. Until such time it is better to discuss and have those conversations out in the open and rejects it publicly.

I can't quite figure out why the events in Paris have been so particularly different that it can get even support on very short notice from Israel, Palestine, Jordan in the same line of solidarity. I'm not naive enough to believe that everything will be ok when we wake up in the morning. However, it is the biggest breakthrough and rejection I've seen in a long time. Them and the several million other people joining in, despite taking offence with most of the cartoons from Charlie Hebdo is exactly what is required.

But unfortunately, more attacks by fundamental Muslims will occur and continue. I think it will actually get worse before it gets better, but I hope more people become brave enough to standup from within.

It would be really powerful if everyones website had the slogan on their page and stop being afraid of offending Muslims.
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I am not afraid of offending any religion,but some of the very countries that have come out in support are the very people who restrict their own free press :(
 
simonblue said:
I am not afraid of offending any religion,but some of the very countries that have come out in support are the very people who restrict their own free press :(
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I did think there was high degree of irony in countries like Saudi attending, whilst they are punishing bloggers for daring to speak out :rolleyes:
 
simonblue said:
I am not afraid of offending any religion or country, but some of the very countries that have come out in support are the very people who restrict their own free press,take what happening in Mexico,apart from Iraq it is the most dangerous country for journalists.
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Yv said:
I did think there was high degree of irony in countries like Saudi attending, whilst they are punishing bloggers for daring to speak out :rolleyes:
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Yes, not exactly the paragon of freedom, are they.
 
To be fair, what can they say about those Girls who were kidnapped? They are still missing? You could also say that MH370 is the same, not newsworthy any more.
And they aren't to be honest. News is something happening now or very recently that is of interest. While both the above of of interest, there's nothing of note happening with either at the moment.
In a week or so, we wont hear about France, unless something happens again. The next 1 million copies of Charlie will be published, it will get bought, probably not read much and binned/kept to flog on ebay in a couple of years. Once that's done, its not news, it's history and will be subject to countless re runs of documentaries that provide a superficial explanation of what happened to people who don't want to switch their brains on.

The next crisis news story will come along, ebola will be back in the news, and besides we all need to be bombarded with crap about Mays election..........
 
Bernie174 said:
To be fair, what can they say about those Girls who were kidnapped? They are still missing? You could also say that MH370 is the same, not newsworthy any more.
And they aren't to be honest. News is something happening now or very recently that is of interest. While both the above of of interest, there's nothing of note happening with either at the moment.
In a week or so, we wont hear about France, unless something happens again. The next 1 million copies of Charlie will be published, it will get bought, probably not read much and binned/kept to flog on ebay in a couple of years. Once that's done, its not news, it's history and will be subject to countless re runs of documentaries that provide a superficial explanation of what happened to people who don't want to switch their brains on.

The next crisis news story will come along, ebola will be back in the news, and besides we all need to be bombarded with crap about Mays election..........
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Can you imagine the news response if it had been 200 white, European girls who'd been kidnapped?
 
dejongj said:
And that is the reality of news.

I came across this "Letter to my British friends" from a French chap. I think he is doing an excellent job explaining some of the things and putting Charlie Hebdo in context. Well worth five minutes of your time whilst having s morning coffee or tea ...
http://blogs.mediapart.fr/blog/olivier-tonneau/110115/charlie-hebdo-letter-my-british-friends
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Make that 10 mins, but worth a read even your political ideals differ. Thanks for the link JP ;)
 
Yv said:
Make that 10 mins, but worth a read even your political ideals differ. Thanks for the link JP ;)
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A great read......and I have also just heard that France are deploying ten thousand troops to protect sensitive areas.......good on them I say.....protect the people
 
dejongj said:
And that is the reality of news.

I came across this "Letter to my British friends" from a French chap. I think he is doing an excellent job explaining some of the things and putting Charlie Hebdo in context. Well worth five minutes of your time whilst having s morning coffee or tea ...
http://blogs.mediapart.fr/blog/olivier-tonneau/110115/charlie-hebdo-letter-my-british-friends
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Well worth the 10 minutes read, but as a devout French Socialist Olivier Tonneau doesn't quite want to mention how post-'68 secular France's hatred of the USA meant that they sheltered and nurtured Khomeni through the late 1970s and thereby sowed much of the seed for the reversal of the Nadha in Islam and the rise of fundamentalism!

The only certainty is the Law of Unintended Consequences!
 
ghoti said:
Can you imagine the news response if it had been 200 white, European girls who'd been kidnapped?
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we'd probably have sent the SAS to rescue them.. sadly nigeria doesnt have that capability
 
archangel said:
A great read......and I have also just heard that France are deploying ten thousand troops to protect sensitive areas.......good on them I say.....protect the people
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Unless they have some specific intelligence I can't see the point of this. It is a very blunt method of defence against precision target. But hey I am not party to their intelligence.
 
dejongj said:
Unless they have some specific intelligence I can't see the point of this. It is a very blunt method of defence against precision target. But hey I am not party to their intelligence.
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probablly the same reason we've alledgedly deployed a counter terrorism troop of the SAS to London, that is that it reassures the local populace that the govt is taking action and plays well in the press
 
Can you imagine the news response if it had been 200 white, European girls who'd been kidnapped?
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I can, but it would have dropped out of the news as well by now.

probablly the same reason we've alledgedly deployed a counter terrorism troop of the SAS to London, that is that it reassures the local populace that the govt is taking action and plays well in the press
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There's always a counter terrorist troop in London. Has been for over 30 years. The press reports was that they were 'patrolling the streets' which is cobblers, they are no use whatsoever doing that. 20 or so people in a city the size of London is wasted manpower.
 
Bernie174 said:
The press reports was that they were 'patrolling the streets' which is cobblers, they are no use whatsoever doing that. 20 or so people in a city the size of London is wasted manpower.
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this is true , but its spin put out to make joe public feel that the govt is really "doing something". The truth of the matter is of course that even if you deployed an entire battle group to every major city you couldnt stop a group of committed terrorists carrying out an attrocity, because a) you'd just be setting up a confrontation if that was what they were after, and b) if they werent up for attacking troops they'd just go and carry out their attrocity in a smaller town with less security present
 
There is also a certain amount of damned if they do and damned if they don't too. If another attack happens and they hadn't put extra troops in [police or armed forces], they will be absolutely vilified, given events last week. If they do put extra troops in, they can never put enough to protect everyone absolutely, it simply isn't going to happen, there will always be vulnerabilities. So ultimately its an exercise in both helping those most at risk feeling a bit more protected [even if they know, hand on heart, its false] and is good PR for the governments. Also worth noting is that there is general election looming here, so worth some extra PR from all sides of the political divide, whichever way they chose to react. In France, I think its 2017 but Hollande has been under huge pressure thanks to a lousy economy, etc...so any positives that can be gained from this, will be, however mercenary that may sound.
 
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