MPB sponsored competition, with exciting prizes.

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DemiLion said:
Dale, I strongly suggest that you and the other mods read my original post and consider amending the original rules appropriately (after a discussion with MPB regarding their needs).
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Your original post is very likely accurate and you are trying to be helpful but it’s completely irrelevant here and you are in danger of making a mountain out of a molehill. It’s not compulsory to enter.
 
Suggested rule amendment:

T&Cs:

Conditions of use.

By entering the competition, you confirm that it is your own original work or a license to publish in relation to the competition must be granted by the copyright owner in order for the images to be considered.

By entering you grant TPmedia Ltd and MPB Ltd the right to publish and use each entry to promote the competition. This may be in an online gallery, feature in a national / regional newspaper and associated web sites. It may be used to promote a similar future competition. It may be used for promotion of the competition free of charge.
Images will only be used in the context of this competition.
 
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DemiLion said:
I'd expected a more grown up response from you Chris.
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It was concise and to the point.
Everything posted was true.

Maybe next time ( but I doubt there will be :( )
We should get a lawyer to draw up the T&C's and split the fee equally between those that want to enter.

Its supposed to be a bit of fun, but some people seem hell bent on taking all that away. :(

Maybe it would be better if this thread didn't exist. And people just got on with the job in hand, rather than dissecting every minute detial.
 
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Cobra said:
It was concise and to the point.
Everything posted was true.

Maybe next time ( but I doubt there will be :( )
We should get a lawyer to draw up the T&C's and split the fee equally between those that want to enter.

Its supposed to be a bit of fun, but some people seem hell bent on taking all that away. :(

Maybe it would be better if this thread didn't exist. And people just got on with the job in hand, rather than dissecting every minute detial.
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Yep, I'm sorry that it has come to this but it is exactly what happens to every competition with a commercial prize/reward that doesn't think through its T&Cs properly and do due diligence.
It turns into a social media nightmare. At least here, it is all contained in one thread.

I'm still not convinced that you understand that use of the images really isn't a minor detail and that the T&Cs are central to the competition.

However, I've made my suggestion and it is up to you and MPB as to whether you wish to follow the advice.
 
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Cobra said:
And when @mpb.com read though all this I doubt that they would bother ever offering another TP based competition again
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I was just thinking that a few people would be wondering, "why on earth do we bother?"! :rolleyes:
 
Any ambiguity could have easily been avoided with a list of terms and conditions.
All competitions have them and if I remember correctly the POTY here always did
The lack of such a list was always likely to raise questions for example post production.
Whole thing has got out of all proportion on both sides, just a storm in a teacup.
Not sure why anybody has to say over and again, if you dont like it dont enter.
Think that is a given, but some who want to enter like to know the criteria in advance.
 
DemiLion said:
Whilst he was a bit of an arse in how he put the point across, it is incredibly important stating the intended future use of the images and any implied licence because, as a commercial entity is involved, it is very different to the competitions usually held here.

For example by posting an image to the competition thread, you are granting an implied licence for TP to publish that image within that thread ONLY.

If MPB (or TP) make any use of the image, other than 'hotlinking' to it on there, then they are creating an infringing copy for which they could be taken to court.

You cannot assume anything in regards to copyright - it has to be laid out in black and white for everyone to understand.
Because without that happening, you have no usage rights at all - and that would be pretty much useless for a commercial entity
who are likely to want some traction from sponsoring the competition, even if it is 'just' on their own social media.

So, yeah, it is actually a pretty big thing.
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You seem to willingly ignore the point made in the very first post - no one is forcing you to enter.

Those that seek to find fault seem to be coming out of the woodwork. (There is a separate political thread on here that may be of more interest to them.)

It's a simple competition with a nice prize. The negativity on here is just crackers.

Just take pictures and enjoy the feedback you never know, you could even win!

That said it would be interesting to know how many of the critics have actually ever posted an image to share with others or are just too busy criticising.

I await the putdowns
 
I have to say that I'm with Chris on this and furthermore feel utterly discouraged from trying to seek any prize sponsorship for TP competitions in future. However I will keep trying, that's why I invested in this site and took on the role, same as the two Chris'. We do it quite literally for love.

There may be valid points about use of images, except for the fact that neither TP nor MPB are interested in using images from the competition. You may have noticed the MPB banner ad at the top of both competition threads and in a few gear-related fora on the site. They are looking for more click-throughs leading to sales. Period. The prizes will lead to additional sales probably in excess of the prize values. The TP owners are just trying to give something extra to members of the community, and reward membership. Period.

I would strongly encourage anyone worried about image theft etc to just not enter. Maybe we will put extra T&C's in in future, to avoid this noise, for those that really like to focus on that stuff. Depressing or what?
 
lindsay said:
I have to say that I'm with Chris on this and furthermore feel utterly discouraged from trying to seek any prize sponsorship for TP competitions in future. However I will keep trying, that's why I invested in this site and took on the role, same as the two Chris'. We do it quite literally for love.

There may be valid points about use of images, except for the fact that neither TP nor MPB are interested in using images from the competition. You may have noticed the MPB banner ad at the top of both competition threads and in a few gear-related fora on the site. They are looking for more click-throughs leading to sales. Period. The prizes will lead to additional sales probably in excess of the prize values. The TP owners are just trying to give something extra to members of the community, and reward membership. Period.

I would strongly encourage anyone worried about image theft etc to just not enter. Maybe we will put extra T&C's in in future, to avoid this noise, for those that really like to focus on that stuff. Depressing or what?
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Please don't give in to the naysayers.
You can't please all the people all the time. Some on here will never be happy whatever you do, they get their pleasure from creating negativity.
Just ignore them.
 
If I was ever worried about image theft, then I'd never post an image anywhere at all, not even in Google photos.
My take on it is, the Staff and MPB have talked together to set this up which imo is great sadly in this world folk will moan or what ever but for me life is to short to worry about image theft.
 
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wornish said:
I certainly don't blame you or don't envy your job.

This place is one of the best photo sites out there, thanks to the good admin.

Despite the efforts of some who only seek argument and conflict.
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Thanks for your support David, we adminnies all appreciate it :)
 
@simon ess Your first line cracked me up and I couldn't agree more, even if I (as an admin) thought it was ok for me to enter - I've only sold one image ever, on Shutterstock, for 23c!


Edited to add: although I did once do the cover of a local coach holiday firm, for which I received a fresh replacement roll of film and a 3-day coach tour of Yorkshire.
 
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lindsay said:
I have to say that I'm with Chris on this and furthermore feel utterly discouraged from trying to seek any prize sponsorship for TP competitions in future. However I will keep trying, that's why I invested in this site and took on the role, same as the two Chris'. We do it quite literally for love.

There may be valid points about use of images, except for the fact that neither TP nor MPB are interested in using images from the competition. You may have noticed the MPB banner ad at the top of both competition threads and in a few gear-related fora on the site. They are looking for more click-throughs leading to sales. Period. The prizes will lead to additional sales probably in excess of the prize values. The TP owners are just trying to give something extra to members of the community, and reward membership. Period.

I would strongly encourage anyone worried about image theft etc to just not enter. Maybe we will put extra T&C's in in future, to avoid this noise, for those that really like to focus on that stuff. Depressing or what?
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I agree but don’t give up.

The number of people querying the setup are quite small and in most cases probably mean well expect MPB, being in the retail business, are used to some negativity -- it happens in the MPB thread too in full view and the likes of members here are their customers, warts and all. I’m afraid people hinting at malpractice and so on don’t think about how public and harmful it might be.

I was in two minds about commenting here for fear of making it worse but heigh ho …
 
Thanks for keeping it in perspective Richard. We will too.
 
sphexx said:
The number of people querying the setup are quite small
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Fair point, and I expect, well, hope anyway those that are going to enter, are staying away from all the negativity :)
 
wornish said:
You seem to willingly ignore the point made in the very first post - no one is forcing you to enter.

Those that seek to find fault seem to be coming out of the woodwork. (There is a separate political thread on here that may be of more interest to them.)

It's a simple competition with a nice prize. The negativity on here is just crackers.

Just take pictures and enjoy the feedback you never know, you could even win!

That said it would be interesting to know how many of the critics have actually ever posted an image to share with others or are just too busy criticising.

I await the putdowns
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I have organised meets in London and Cambridge, started print exchanges, taken part in the zine swap and entered the POTY when it ran. Posted a fair few photos too over the years, check out the art deco thread I started
So that's one for your list, perhaps you can share what you have ever done for anyone else on here?
 
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wornish said:
You seem to willingly ignore the point made in the very first post - no one is forcing you to enter.

Those that seek to find fault seem to be coming out of the woodwork. (There is a separate political thread on here that may be of more interest to them.)

It's a simple competition with a nice prize. The negativity on here is just crackers.

Just take pictures and enjoy the feedback you never know, you could even win!

That said it would be interesting to know how many of the critics have actually ever posted an image to share with others or are just too busy criticising.

I await the putdowns
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I'm not ignoring anything.

As I said in a PM to Chris, I am trying to support the admin by offering advice gained by running and helping to run comps where the sponsorship levels
from major camera manufacturers were in excess of £20k.

I know what the pitfalls are and they will always exist in any comp that has commercial interests involved.

None of my comments have been negative in the slightest and having just bought a lens from MPB with excellent service, I have been a fan of theirs for almost a decade.
 
And I explained to you Mark via the same PM mpb have been running competitions for years,
I'm sure they know the score.
But if Jamil ( our mpb liaison) requests a change / addition of the T&C's I will of course amend them accordingly,
Even if that means closing or even deleting both threads and starting afresh.
 
Cobra said:
And I explained to you Mark via the same PM mpb have been running competitions for years,
I'm sure they know the score.
But if Jamil ( our mpb liaison) requests a change / addition of the T&C's I will of course amend them accordingly,
Even if that means closing or even deleting both threads and starting afresh.
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Yep, I know. I was just responding to the comments about negativity.

TBH - a restarted thread might be a good thing.
 
tijuana taxi said:
I have organised meets in London and Cambridge, started print exchanges, taken part in the zine swap and entered the POTY when it ran. Posted a fair few photos too over the years, check out the art deco thread I started
So that's one for your list, perhaps you can share what you have ever done for anyone else?
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Good for you and well done at least that's a positive, unlike your reaction to this competition. How can criticising the competition for no reason help others - please explain.

As for me, I post on here hoping others will enjoy the images like I do and give me pointers on how to improve. Just look at my posts! See for yourself there are plenty. I am not a pro photographer (as you will notice :) ) just a happy member who enjoys a challenge, tries to learn from the feedback and get better at taking pics.

I am simply calling you and the other "let's find every possible issue" posters out. If I was MPB and followed your negative input I would run a mile.
 
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wornish said:
Good for you and well done at least that's a positive, unlike your reaction to this competition. How can criticising the competition for no reason help others - please explain.

As for me, I post on here hoping others will enjoy the images like I do and give me pointers on how to improve. Just look at my posts! See for yourself there are plenty. I am not a pro photographer (as you will notice :) ) just a happy member who enjoys a challenge, tries to learn from the feedback and get better at taking pics.

I am simply replying to you and the other "let's find every possible issue" posters out. If I was MPB and followed your negative input I would run a mile.
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Agree with you David with being a member enjoying what I do, the feedback really does help here and to me this is the best forum to learn in while being a member.
 
wornish said:
Good for you and well done at least that's a positive, unlike your reaction to this competition. How can criticising the competition for no reason help others - please explain.

As for me, I post on here hoping others will enjoy the images like I do and give me pointers on how to improve. Just look at my posts! See for yourself there are plenty. I am not a pro photographer (as you will notice :) ) just a happy member who enjoys a challenge, tries to learn from the feedback and get better at taking pics.

I am simply replying to you and the other "let's find every possible issue" posters out. If I was MPB and followed your negative input I would run a mile.
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You asked a question I replied, not about to explain anything to you.
All you are doing is stirring the pot, something I think you probably enjoy, how does that help anyone or anything?
Please "don't explain"
 
All I am saying is that if MPB are not going to use the images then clearly state that in the rules.
If the photographer retains the copyright then clearly state that in the rules.
If you are only allowed to submit one image to the competition that clearly state that in the rules.

I don’t see what is negative about that, and I don’t understand TP’s/MPB’s reluctance to state that in the rules. It seems like common sense to me.
 
L320Rio said:
All I am saying is that if MPB are not going to use the images then clearly state that in the rules.
If the photographer retains the copyright then clearly state that in the rules.
If you are only allowed to submit one image to the competition that clearly state that in the rules.

I don’t see what is negative about that, and I don’t understand TP’s/MPB’s reluctance to state that in the rules. It seems like common sense to me.
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Because once you go down that route there’s almost no end and you land up with the sort of T&Cs that we are all familiar with and no one reads ;(.
 
Many of you are not going to be aware, but there is a 52 challenge, that has been running at least 10 years,
an average of 40 people submit at least one image a week.
No one forces them to join, its a great community.
Not one single person has moaned, dissected or bitched about the rules, or guidelines in all that time.

The only difference that I can see is that their are no prizes, it's just a fun challenge...
It would seem that money truly is the root of all evil, bringing out the worst in some people.
 
As much as I love it, I don't take my photography hobby too seriously. And I certainly don't expect to win any prizes.

But I'd be delighted to see my entry in the MPB newsletter email I receive once or twice a week. A mention of the competition with images attached, could only be good publicity for TP.
 
TheBigYin said:
Okay, I guess some of us that have been involved in running (say) the POTY competitions here might have anticipated that there'd be questions about submissions and so forth - but as far as worrying about a "rights grab" or "market research" or such like, I think it's a little insulting frankly...
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To be fair, with MBP sponsoring the competition, I think it only fair for them to get an insight into what kit we use and why. I have no issue with that, they help support the site, let's give a little back to them at no cost to us....

Now, where's my camera....
 
Well I've spent the last 20 minutes reading this whole thread and for what it is worth, here is my two-pence-worth.

1) It's a free-to-enter competition, it is not compulsory.
2) MPB sell second-hand equipment and as they are the ones offering the prize then why should they not get something out of it, be it sales, exposure (no pun intended), and/or just a general feeling of goodwill to all men (and women) here in TP.
3) The rules as promulgated seem fine to me and I shall not be retaining a lawyer.
4) I have entered, more-or less successfully, the Challenge 52 on this forum and at no time has anyone (to the best of my knowledge) filched any single one of my photographs or [unfortunately] ever offered my any money for one. I would not reasonably expect MPB to be able sell an image I enter into their competition as I am not a National Geographic photographer -- and if I was, I'd probably be in an exotic world location earning far more than a small voucher for equipment and not following a bunch of enthusiastic amateurs on a UK forum.

Enter/don't enter, it's your choice. If I take a half-decent picture this month I shall be entering it, hey, why not?
 
We have now received mpb's Full T&C's I've locked the thread temporally while we decide the best way forward, regarding this thread.
 
This thread will remain locked.

A new thread has been started.
with mpb's full T&C's HERE

And please no more unpleasantness, thanks :)
 
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