Movie film type ?

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Tricky69

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Wife is watching "wonderfull life" with cliff richard.

I noticed the colours are really vivid and sharp, so wondered what type of film was used .

I suspected Kodak , but can't find any info on it.

How do you find out what type of film was used for a movie feature ?

Rich
 
Thanks BY

" known for it's saturated colours"

that'd be about right for this one.

I'll have a proper read.

Film was rubbish BTY, and she turned over.

I was impressed by the modern look to it - hence my interest in the film type used :)

Rich
 
It wouldn't be 3 strip Technicolour as that had been abandoned by the 1954 for the comparative ease of Eastman Colour by Kodak which was many times faster (3 Strip Technicolour was about 5 ASA due to the beam splitter and filters to split the colour channels so it required hugh amounts of lighting) and cheaper as there was only 1 negative compared to 3 B&W ones for each colour channel.

However the Technicolour printing process was used to produce dye inhibition prints from Eastman Colour negatives exactly like how the 3 strip negatives would have been printed (the B&W negs were dyed to match their complementary colour e.g the green negative dyed magenta and so on, then under intense heat and pressure the 3 dyed film strips were placed on top of one another and the dyes would merge together on another strip of film stock to form the colours) using separation masters which gave prints with a more striking colour saturation especially in the reds compared with prints struck on normal high contrast release stock. This was used for special prints for the films run in high class cinemas such as the Odeon at Lecister Square or Radio City Hall in New York and sometimes for every film print in the case of major releases (although major cinemas got the best prints as the 3 negatives didn't always line up as well every time), right up until the Godfather Part II which was the last film printed in this way at Technicolour USA in 1974 although the Italian branch subsequently released several further films (most notably Susperia which used the intense saturation for effect) up until about 1980. George Lucas aditionally had a personal dye transfer print of Star Wars: A New Hope by the British Technicolour dye printer before it was retired in late 1977. The film your interested in looks saturated simply because of the dye inhibition process used for the prints.

In 1997 however Technicolour started offering dye transfer prints again for a few years which was used for special prints of Apocalypse Now Redux and Toy Story 2 amongst others before they sadly retired offering them once more. The advantage of these prints is that the dyes do not degrade like ordinary colour film prints, for example when they did one restoration of Star Wars: A New Hope, all the available prints had degraded to such as extent that nobody had any idea what the colour balance was supposed to be like so they ended up having to use George Lucas's personal print as a rough guide because it was in perfect condition. Likewise because any films in 3 strip Technicolour have 3 negatives in B&W they hardly degrade anymore either (although differing shrinkage between the 3 strips can be problematic) and the separation masters for most major Technicolour printed films still survive so their well preserved as well.

Sorry for the long and possibly over detailed post, I love cinema and the technology begind it so much that I just remember it all.
 
s162216 said:
..................................Sorry for the long and possibly over detailed post, I love cinema and the technology begind it so much that I just remember it all.
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Don't be sorry :)

If I wasn't interested, I wouldn't have asked !

A lot of old films .. look "old" . This one looked like it could have been recorded in digital, yesterday !

Thanks
Rich
 
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Taking a look through Kodak's film chronology on their Motion division website, I can conclude that it was most likely shot on one or more of these 3 stocks:

  • Eastman Colour Negative 5250 (Tungsten EI50 Daylight EI32)
  • Eastman Colour Negative 5251 (Tungsren EI50)
  • Eastman 4-X Negative Pan 7/5224 (Daylight EI500 Tungsten EI400)

That is of course assuming that it was Kodak film and not by Agfa or a smaller film manufacturer. The last film stock (7/5224) is least likely as it was released in 1964 when the film was released so it would have likely been very expensive as it was the first high speed colour negative motion picture stock.

Sadly the reason a lot of films look old is because of improper storage by the film studios, the only colour left in the only surviving uncut 70mm print of 'The Alamo' with John Wayne in 1960 for example is magenta sadly as all the colour channels have degraded so much thats all thats left and as the separation masters were improperly made their useless as well regarding the colour balance. And to think that originally this print was in near perfect condition after being found in Canada but as MGM put it in in warm storage after transfering it to VHS its degraded to the point in the link below, its now undergoing a full restoration by Robert A Harris who is legendary in restoring film including Lawrence of Arabia and My Fair Lady amongst his other large format restorations.

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2009/the_alamo/index.htm
 
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Just out interest after being educated by s162216 :) are cinefilm still available to purchase? Quite interesting in trying some myself after trying the lomokino from lomography.
 
Psyence33 said:
Just out interest after being educated by s162216 :) are cinefilm still available to purchase? Quite interesting in trying some myself after trying the lomokino from lomography.
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Yes, though bot to consumers. You can regularly find short ends on ebay though. It's a very cheap way of getting large lengths of film, but it's almost all ECN2 process, and no one is going to do that for you.

You can cross process yourself in C41, but the remjet backing is going to be a problem.

There are also E6 process movie films which are a lot better bet, though rarer and with considerable less variety
 
almost forgot - fuji also sell short ends direct as well
 
Alan Clogwyn said:
Yes, though bot to consumers. You can regularly find short ends on ebay though. It's a very cheap way of getting large lengths of film, but it's almost all ECN2 process, and no one is going to do that for you.

You can cross process yourself in C41, but the remjet backing is going to be a problem.

There are also E6 process movie films which are a lot better bet, though rarer and with considerable less variety
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Ah thanks, though still processing... So what about those super 8 cameras? What film do they take?

Also what do you mean by remjet backing problem?
 
Super 8 cartridges and 16mm film reels are still readily available and widely used, in B&W reversal and negative (not S-8), colour reversal and colour negative although for colour neg with super 8 it has to be telecined (transferred to digital) as Kodak discontinued the print stock several years ago (but there is a lab in Germany who have custom cut down stock and do the only printing service in the world).

If you want E-6 for your Lomo you need Kodak EKTACHROME 100D Color Reversal Film 5285/7285, it can be processed in ordinary E-6 chemicals , Kodak's motion website is an excellent resource for this sort of thing.I would sit down though when you read the cost...

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Products/Production/index.htm

Motion picture film is protected by a 'rem jet' backing, before processing this needs to be dissolved in an acid bath (Kodachrome had this as well) so it makes ordinary labs unable to develop it as well as the film perforations being different on motion film. For this I would either try Tecnicolour UK (who you've probably heard of and do processing for some of the most major films in the world such as Harry Potter!) or Andecfilm (the lab I mentioned above in Germany who do about every known service http://www.andecfilm.de/html/preisliste_eng.htm) but I would not expect it to be cheap (e.g Andecfilm charges 0.70 EUR per meter for developing and film usually comes on a 400 or 1000 foot roll!)

For something cheaper to try out, why not just pick up a Cannon Super 8 camera on ebay? Their widely regarded as the best Super 8 cameras and can now be got for about £30, reversal film and processing is about £15 total in the UK and then either get it telecined at the lab and/or even better get a super 8 projector as these are readily available cheaply (unlike 35mm projectors who's cost second hand usually runs into the £1000's!) Remember you only get 3 mins out of Super 8 cartridge so make it count and theres no sound - you can get a lot into 3 minutes though.
 
s162216 said:
Super 8 cartridges and 16mm film reels are still readily available and widely used, in B&W reversal and negative (not S-8), colour reversal and colour negative although for colour neg with super 8 it has to be telecined (transferred to digital) as Kodak discontinued the print stock several years ago (but there is a lab in Germany who have custom cut down stock and do the only printing service in the world).

If you want E-6 for your Lomo you need Kodak EKTACHROME 100D Color Reversal Film 5285/7285, it can be processed in ordinary E-6 chemicals , Kodak's motion website is an excellent resource for this sort of thing.I would sit down though when you read the cost...

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/Products/Production/index.htm

Motion picture film is protected by a 'rem jet' backing, before processing this needs to be dissolved in an acid bath (Kodachrome had this as well) so it makes ordinary labs unable to develop it as well as the film perforations being different on motion film. For this I would either try Tecnicolour UK (who you've probably heard of and do processing for some of the most major films in the world such as Harry Potter!) or Andecfilm (the lab I mentioned above in Germany who do about every known service http://www.andecfilm.de/html/preisliste_eng.htm) but I would not expect it to be cheap (e.g Andecfilm charges 0.70 EUR per meter for developing and film usually comes on a 400 or 1000 foot roll!)

For something cheaper to try out, why not just pick up a Cannon Super 8 camera on ebay? Their widely regarded as the best Super 8 cameras and can now be got for about £30, reversal film and processing is about £15 total in the UK and then either get it telecined at the lab and/or even better get a super 8 projector as these are readily available cheaply (unlike 35mm projectors who's cost second hand usually runs into the £1000's!) Remember you only get 3 mins out of Super 8 cartridge so make it count and theres no sound - you can get a lot into 3 minutes though.
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Wow thanks for the advice!

I'm looking at some super 8 cameras on ebay and a few canons are pretty expensive! (maybe after that super 8 film the price shot up?) Any other brand and some other ones that says super 8 seems to be cheaper but I'll need to research a bit since I still don't fully know what I'd like.
And the film types. :help: Theres so many! Would any labs be able to process it? I wouldn't mind trying myself if its just E6 chemicals.
The projectors I think I found one at a reasonable price like you said but I don;t know if its the full thing or if its just parts?!
Think I need to do a lot more researching!:D
 
There are several labs in the UK which do colour and B&W reversal processing and telecine:

http://www.bluecinetech.co.uk/categories.php?cat=81

http://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/Catalogue/Super_8_and_Std8_Film_Processi.html (Also does colour negative)

http://www.lightbreeze.co.uk/index.htm (Only colour reversal)

http://www.stanleysonline.co.uk/scategory-87.htm

There are others but these are the most easily found.

Home processing is apparently easy to do for B&W reversal and a bit more difficult for colour reversal (same as with stills), the problem is getting hold of a suitable developing reel as they are fairly rare.

Most projectors for sale on ebay these days will say that they don't know if they work as sadly most are from deceased relatives etc who would have known about them, so long as it runs and the lens is in good condition then it should be fine.
 
s162216 said:
There are several labs in the UK which do colour and B&W reversal processing and telecine:

http://www.bluecinetech.co.uk/categories.php?cat=81

http://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/Catalogue/Super_8_and_Std8_Film_Processi.html (Also does colour negative)

http://www.lightbreeze.co.uk/index.htm (Only colour reversal)

http://www.stanleysonline.co.uk/scategory-87.htm

There are others but these are the most easily found.

Home processing is apparently easy to do for B&W reversal and a bit more difficult for colour reversal (same as with stills), the problem is getting hold of a suitable developing reel as they are fairly rare.

Most projectors for sale on ebay these days will say that they don't know if they work as sadly most are from deceased relatives etc who would have known about them, so long as it runs and the lens is in good condition then it should be fine.
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Thanks for the info! The prices seems reasonable tbh! Not as expensive as I thought they could be.

I've found a few cameras on ebay which I'm watching, would you mind if I PM them to you for a quick look?

Haha I rather not know they're from deceased relatives :eek: and like you said most don't know much about them.
 
Hi,

I forgot to reply to this, I'm fine with you PMing me to look at any ones you might be interested in. Most Super 8 cameras are roughly the same though, it just depends on things like the frame rate (most cheap ones just do 18 but more expensive ones like the Canon's do 24 for the 'feature film' look and 36+ for slow motion), the lens and whether they have a manual exposure mode so you can change the aperture.

Sam
 
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