Motorsport photography for people who aren't seeking glory or similar?

[DazJW]

Sorry this got so long, I've tried to be detailed because I think it will save some back-and-forth posts about things that don't apply in this case.
I massively appreciate anyone taking the time to read it and respond to it.

I've been reading a lot of threads lately, and re-reading some I read last year when I started trying to be serious about shooting events, as I want to push doing something with my motorsport photography hard this year and if it doesn't show any signs of progress I'm probably going to downsize my equipment and stop maintaining a website.

The trouble I'm having is that all the threads are started by people who seem to want to get to "the other side of the fence" because they think it will improve their photography, want to get into a big championship event for free, are looking to get "in" with the motorsport scene to meet famous people or want to get their name in print.
The feedback to this is, I imagine quite correctly, that it's not worth their time because the grass isn't greener on that side of the fence and the thread becomes very negative very quickly and the person admits they probably haven't thought it through and that they won't pursue it any further. I struggle to identify with these people** so I'm not sure how much of the negativity to take on board as it largely relates to national championships or higher.

**I do all my circuit shooting at Croft and there are a wide range of places where you can shoot over, around or through the fence and get great shots. There are one or two spots that you can't get to as a spectator but the fact you're stuck there for the duration of a race makes them seem like a waste of time so I don't think I'd bother much with the other side of the fence even if I was working an event.
I'm not bothered about fame - I don't get excited over people I've seen on the telly, I don't care about my name being in print so I can show off about it, I'm quite happy to pay for entry to events even when there are ways around doing so open to anyone (forest rallies for example) and I enjoy the less high profile events more than the big ones anyway.

What I'm entertaining doing is trying to find someone who'll back me for accreditation in return for images (value going both ways). I hopefully could then cover my petrol/food costs, or at least reduce them below what it costs me to be at these events as a spectator already, by selling to crews or to other publications (if there's anyone out there who even pays any more). The only new expenditure would be insurance.
I don't think I'll have any issues hitting deadlines because I normally have some photos uploaded to various places within an hour of getting home - and that's when I don't have any need to do so.

One specific issue I've identified is that the publication I think I'd have the most chance of managing this with often uses photography by someone who works for the publication in another role. They don't always use this person for reasons I'm not aware of and occasionally they publish photos that look like they were taken badly with a phone camera which I guess/hope are taken by the reporter rather than someone acting as "a photographer", I think this gives me an advantage as I can produce better photos but more importantly I attend more events. I don't know how to broach this issue though, it feels wrong somehow to contact the sports sub-editor and say I'm better than the person they're using and I don't imagine it would really ingratiate me with the publication. The person doesn't seem to have any photography-orientated presence on the internet apart from a Flickr account that hasn't been updated in around 18 months with some blurry photos on it.
If I've observed it correctly it seems like the publication are taking what they can get and just making do if they can't get anything so I wouldn't be undercutting someone who's getting paid by making an images-for-accreditation offer.

I've ploughed through all this and I'm not sure I have a specific question to ask, I suppose I'm just looking for some input/thoughts from people who've made some progress in this area about whether I'm being a nut-case or not. I know there's no career to be made in this area but I can't envision myself doing anything else and at least it's productive.

 

[dunganick]

I would simply approach the publication and explain what you are offering and what you would like in return. Encourage them to view a really well edited portfolio (25 images) of news worthy images (not nessicarily photographically brilliant shots). Make life as easy for them as possible, ask if they would like you to email it or send a URL or give a simple URL over the phone. Make it easy to contact you back.

Im about 99% certain that the second it becomes hard work for them, they loose interest.

I would be fairly certain they dont currently pay for their images. So i doubt you will get anywhere by charging them (especially if their current photographer is part of the company or an editor etc..) Perhaps offer 6 months free of charge images and then put a proposal together once you have proven a value to them.

Alternatively do what lots of photographers do and work at building contacts once this publication has got you trackside and try to earn your expenses there. Staying uniquely at croft will hamper you, but equally it should make you a specialist at that circuit.

Once you are trackside you can afford to play a little bit harder when it comes to demanding payment. What you are proposing is also good in the sense that you intend to make money from it, by doing this you will still maintain customers expectations to pay for images and you are then competing with true professional photographers on a more level playing ground.

If you set your mind to it i'm sure you will achieve it. Some accreditation can be difficult to achieve (bsb for instance) but it is achievable if you have a genuine reason to be there. You just need to find one

 

[DazJW]

Thanks for the reply Nick.

 

[starkersclark]

I have found that targeting the smaller race series and approaching them for accredition has worked for me. I took pictures at an event a while back and then offered them to the event organisers in return for accredition at their next race which they offered. I get valuable experience and they get images for their website.

Since then they have taken me on as one of their official photographers so I now receive expenses and have the opportunity to sell to the competitors.

(Yes I do have insurance etc!)

 

[munch]

Where you chose to shoot at Croft (or any other circuit) is up to you. But without accreditation you are breaking your terms of entry if you want to sell any photographs.

 

[DazJW]

I have found that targeting the smaller race series and approaching them for accredition has worked for me.

Thanks, that's a possibility but most of the race series go around circuits and a lot of the Northern ones include Scotland which is quite some distance to travel.

But without accreditation you are breaking your terms of entry if you want to sell any photographs.

I think you've misunderstood my post. I'm saying I don't want accreditation because I think it's cool or because it'll improve my photography like other people have asked about in the past, not that I don't want accreditation at all.

 

[JohnStewart]

I think Nick's approach is the best in this instance. A short proposal to the publication with a sample portfolio setting out your offer would probably be warmly welcomed, unless it puts one of their existing staff out of some work. You may also find that they might be able to cover you under their own PLI, as you are effectively working for them.

Thanks, that's a possibility but most of the race series go around circuits and a lot of the Northern ones include Scotland which is quite some distance to travel.

Your profile states you live in Teeside, which to me doesn't seem that far from quite a few other circuits. Knockhill is my closest track, but even that is a two hour drive south from my house. I would imagine that on good day you could manage the drive in just over 3 hours on a good day as it it's only 20 minutes over the Forth Road Bridge. Cadwell Park would only be a few hours drive south for you, Oulton Park maybe 3 hours, Silverstone 4, Anglesey 4, Snetterton 4, Brands Hatch 5.

I once drove down from north of Aberdeen to Snetterton on a Saturday, spent all day shooting on the Sunday and drove home again straight after the event, driving through the night. I've never had so many coffee stops on a drive before

It's unusual for race meeting to go on much later than 5pm unless there have been major incidents on track, and some series have their last race around 3pm. On average you could be home no later than about 8 or 9pm. If deadlines are really tight (e.g. next morning's newspaper), then upload to a laptop during the day, select and send a few low-medium res images
via mobile phone or a £3/day PAYG mobile broadband dongle

John

 

[munch]

Darren, if you want to sell photographs from Croft, you need permission from the circuit AFAIK to do that you need a form of accreditation & £5 million PLI. That doesn't mean you then have to stand "trackside" to get those photographs.

Whilst you may be able to do it Add Hoc without the circuits blessing it may limit you in the future.

 

[DazJW]

*Snip*

Thanks for the input.
I was thinking of the travel relative to what I do now, I'm only twenty minutes from Croft, twenty-five minutes from another smaller venue and about an hour and a half from the Yorkshire forest rally stages. Six to ten hours of travel and petrol is a vast increase over that and the logistics of such long travel times are more difficult (if I have to stay overnight there's that expense, then there's probably two extra meals away from home than I usually would).
Probably doable but I'd be stretching myself pretty hard and I certainly don't think I'd want to be committing to that kind of thing so soon.

Darren, if you want to sell photographs from Croft, you need permission from the circuit AFAIK to do that you need a form of accreditation & £5 million PLI. That doesn't mean you then have to stand "trackside" to get those photographs.

You're definitely misunderstanding my post. I fully understand I need accreditation to do anything outside of personal use with my photos and I know I'm not going to be forced to stand trackside if I'm accredited. I am simply seeking advice that isn't in relation to people wanting access to make them feel big as that is what all the previous advice I've read pertains to and I do not value such things.

 

[munch]

Yes I am confused, in your last post you say "I fully understand I need accreditation to do anything outside of personal use"

but in your OP you say "I hopefully could then cover my petrol/food costs, or at least reduce them below what it costs me to be at these events as a spectator already, by selling to crews or to other publications (if there's anyone out there who even pays any more). The only new expenditure would be insurance."

Is that more than personal use?

Even if you don't actually sell a photograph to a publication, that fact that they use it means that photograph is more than for personal use.

 

[DazJW]

You've quoted what I said I would do if I was accredited.

 

[kestral]

There are to many people doing this stuff now everywhere.When people had to pay for film and development and then mount there transparencies before sending them of to a publication there was not a tenth of the clowns there are now.Where ever I go now there is the office girl who has been handed the company Nikon D3s in auto mode and told just press here then use your dongle to send us the pics.Rates for published photos are at least 25% of what they used to be.Even the fees demanded by Get** and Act*** Images are small.Just do it for enjoyment.But if someone wants to publish your photo make sure they pay.Oh thats the other thing there are loads of idiots that will accept no payment so long as there name is in lights (Bay City Roller syndrome).

 

[Craikeybaby]

My opinion is to just shoot when you want, for yourself if you don't want the extra hassle of travelling etc.

I shot for a series for 3 years at circuits all over the country and whilst I enjoyed it, it got to the point where I had to be there & it felt like work (which I guess it was, as I was getting paid), now I've got my weekends back I enjoy the odd weekend at a local circuit shooting from the public side of the fence even more or even just watching the raving without a camera!

 

[hersham boy]

You need to speak to the event org's as they own all the rights at any meeting not the circit. if your intrested i can give you a contact for a mid to large series in the uk. but you would have to travel to each event under your own steam..

 

[admirable]

Below is an edited (names removed) copy of the first email received from an editor of a magazine. I now deal with them on a regular basis.

It shows the mindset of editors!

Dear Jim
I believe you were at the above event taking photos. ***** **** suggested I contact you. I am interested in the main winners and one or two of **** ****** who I gather was there. Would prefer you to choose and send a few, rather than me spending ages trawling a website!
With best wishes
***** ****
Editor, **** **** World Magazine

 

[Gary]

Below is an edited (names removed) copy of the first email received from an editor of a magazine. I now deal with them on a regular basis.

It shows the mindset of editors!

Dear Jim
I believe you were at the above event taking photos. ***** **** suggested I contact you. I am interested in the main winners and one or two of **** ****** who I gather was there. Would prefer you to choose and send a few, rather than me spending ages trawling a website!
With best wishes
***** ****
Editor, **** **** World Magazine

hope you replied with an invoice!

 

[srhmoto]

Darren,

I'm pretty sure I know the publication you are referring to and I know the sports sub editor well. I'll be happy to discuss this in more detail via PM, but it's probably not appropriate on an open forum.

However, I would say the following:-

Croft has what amounts to a resident photographer that lives within yards of the circuit and is in a position to go and carry out photography assignments pretty much at the drop of a hat. He tends to cover all of the circuits requirements and also a great deal of the publicity stuff for the BARC associated with the circuit. He also supplies most if not all of the photography that DDMC need for their series (he is a long standing member of that motorclub).

A good portfolio is not likely to open the door to the publication suddenly providing you with accreditation for the circuit. Remember that you will be representing them, and hence they need to know and trust you before they will commit to nominating you as their photographic representative at Croft. You may need to cover other events from other places where accreditation is not needed to build up that relationship eg rallying.

You will not be covered by the publications PLI and will need to provide that yourself. As you will be supplying images, you will need appropriate insurance for your equipment. You are highly unlikely to make sufficient money to cover those costs.

Do you really want what will amount to another job, where you will be shooting to a very tightly defined brief with limited scope for creativity? You may find it sucks all of the fun out of your photography - I did.

Anyway, as I said, I'll happily go into a bit more detail via PM if you want.

Simon.

 

[DazJW]

Hi Simon,
I wondered if you'd see this, you probably do know precisely what I'm on about.

Having looked more heavily at what's being published, even clamoured over, elsewhere and some other stuff that's come to light since I originally made this thread I've decided I'm not going to pursue it. I don't mind doing the work and I relish the challenge but not when seemingly no one cares the slightest amount about the results of it, it seems like a waste.

--

Thank you to everyone who's contributed to this thread (and privately), hopefully it can serve some use for someone else in the future.

 

[srhmoto]

Okey dokey. I wouldn't say no one cares Darren, but they are not looking for works of art or creative excellence.

For what its worth, I'm enjoying my photography more now than I have in ages. For me, that is the most important thing.

The offer still stands if you want to discuss anything via PM.

Cheers,

Simon.

 

[dunganick]

Hi Simon,
I wondered if you'd see this, you probably do know precisely what I'm on about.

Having looked more heavily at what's being published, even clamoured over, elsewhere and some other stuff that's come to light since I originally made this thread I've decided I'm not going to pursue it. I don't mind doing the work and I relish the challenge but not when seemingly no one cares the slightest amount about the results of it, it seems like a waste.

--

Thank you to everyone who's contributed to this thread (and privately), hopefully it can serve some use for someone else in the future.

I hope you still enjoy shooting spectator side. If you keep growing your photography spectator side and produce images worthy of mention and notice, you may well find you get offered opportunities to work trackside.

Best of luck and i look forward to seeing the results.