MOT Question ?

Gremlin

Gremlin

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Found out yesterday that a car can fail it's MOT for having a spare tyre that is not fit for use, but if you don't have a spare wheel in the car then it will pass :thinking:
Don't think my spare wheel has ever been used yet, still looks brand new :D, but advice I have seen says take the wheel out of the car before the MOT if you think it's iffy

So here's the question, if you do remove the wheel and the car passes, then put it back again does that technically make the car unroadworthy as it wouldn't pass :shrug:
Wonder what police/insurance companies would say ?
 
Gremlin said:
Found out yesterday that a car can fail it's MOT for having a spare tyre that is not fit for use, but if you don't have a spare wheel in the car then it will pass :thinking:
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Are you sure the spare is testable? It never has been a reason for a fail in the past.
 
Think the way it is, is this... You don't have to have a spare wheel by law (hence why some new cars don't have),but if you do it has to be legal.

Also if you have fitted a towbar to your car,or have a factory fitted one,it also is part of MOT and has to be in fit state to be used if not car can fail the test.
 
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mxfun said:
Think the way it is, is this... You don't have to have a spare wheel by law (hence why some new cars don't have),but if you do it has to be legal.
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Unless the test has changed very recently, the spare is not part of the MOT. If the tester notices that the spare is below minimum tread depth or otherwise defective they should advise the owner, but it is not a fail.

If carrying an illegal tyre in the boot was itself illegal, I'd be stuffed taking the racing slicks in the back of the van to events ;)
 
I have never had a spare checked (and some of them would not have passed).

I did once get an MOT without actually taking the car... but the less said about that, the better!


Steve.
 
It's not a fail item but the examiner may mention it's no good. It seems to be an urban myth.

http://www.ukmot.com/mot_check.asp#information14

TYRES/WHEELS

Tyre condition
A failure with respect to tyre wear will result where:-
The grooves of the tread pattern are not at least 1.6mm throughout a continuous band comprising:
• Central 3/4 of the breadth of tread
• Entire outer circumference of the tyre.

Tyres must be correctly matched with regard to:
• Type
• Size
• Structure
• Location on the vehicle with respect to the axles.

Also examined:
• General condition of tyre
• Condition of valve

Tyres fail if they have serious cuts, bulges or other damage. The wear on the tyre is checked with a tyre tread depth gauge to ensure compliance. The tyres are examined to ensure that there is no fouling with any part of the vehicle.

More.. | Top of Page

Note:
The condition of the spare tyre is not part of the MOT.
 
As said above, the spare isn't part of the MoT test. BUT, if you're carrying one, it has to be legal. IIRC, the penalty for a bald tyre is a fine and 3 points per bald tyre so if all 4 fitted and the spare are too thin, it's 15 points...

Absolutely no point in carrying a spare that's unusable - Murphy/Sod/Nod's law states that if you've put off getting the spare sorted, you'll get another flat! Of course, these days most spares are space savers so unsuitable for anything but emergency use so they're unlikely to wear out fast and since they don't (or at least shouldn't) be fitted for long periods in sunlight, they shouldn't rot too fast!
 
Nod said:
As said above, the spare isn't part of the MoT test. BUT, if you're carrying one, it has to be legal. IIRC, the penalty for a bald tyre is a fine and 3 points per bald tyre so if all 4 fitted and the spare are too thin, it's 15 points...
Click to expand...

So, if I have the racing car on the trailer on the wets (they give more ground clearance for loading) and four slicks in the van, that's 12 points for four "bald" spare tyres then?

I'm pretty confident that any wheel and tyre carried in a vehicle, whether the "spare" or not, does not have to be legal for road use on that or any other vehicle. As soon as it gets mounted to a car or trailer on the road, then it needs to be road legal.
 
The penalty for a defective tyre is 3 points and a band B fine. Band B fine = 1 weeks take home pay after tax and NIC. Plus costs usually £85.00 and victim surcharge of 10% of the fine with a minimum of £20.00. You only get one set of points for any one set of offences, not 3 points for every tyre. So 1 bald tyre = 3 points and 4 bald tyres from the same stop also = 3 points. The number of bald tyres would be reflected by an increase in the fine not the points.
 
Thanks for the replies, one of my work colleagues was emphatic about it, and
actually got quite offensive when I thought otherwise, ie it only became illegal once put on the car, so as said not worth having a spare that isn't roadworthy
Does anyone one know if tyres have a "life", as said I don't think mine has ever been used on the road so would it be safe, same person told me if it was kept in the boot well it would be fine infinitely :shrug:
 
Gremlin said:
Does anyone one know if tyres have a "life", as said I don't think mine has ever been used on the road so would it be safe, same person told me if it was kept in the boot well it would be fine infinitely :shrug:
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They tend to have a limited life, they'll start to crack after a number of years. Check the shelf life of the tyre. The tyre will have a time stamp on it as well.
 
joesmith said:
They tend to have a limited life, they'll start to crack after a number of years. Check the shelf life of the tyre. The tyre will have a time stamp on it as well.
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If the tyre is in the boot, it's not really likely to crack as there is no weight on it.
 
onomatopoeia said:
So, if I have the racing car on the trailer on the wets (they give more ground clearance for loading) and four slicks in the van, that's 12 points for four "bald" spare tyres then?

I'm pretty confident that any wheel and tyre carried in a vehicle, whether the "spare" or not, does not have to be legal for road use on that or any other vehicle. As soon as it gets mounted to a car or trailer on the road, then it needs to be road legal.
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No. In that scenario, you would have a very good reason to be carrying effectively bald tyres. Chances are that the wets are marked "Track Use Only" or similar so would be just as illegal if used on the road as the slicks (24 points!) In the same way that a truck full of knackered tyres on the way to the recycling place has good reason.

g7swz, can you back any of that up with a proper link? I don't think fines are wage related (at least traffic fines which tend to be fixed penalties).
 
Nod, the fines and costs that I refer to are those which apply if the matter is dealt with in Court. If the Police issue a Fixed Penalty Notice the fine is usually £60.00 with 3 penalty points. They do not often issue a fixed penalty notice for bald tyres - they usually issue a rectification notice requiring them to be replaced within a few days and if that is not complied with the matter comes to Court. Often someone with bald tyres will also have committed a further offence such as no insurance, no road tax, or a moving traffic offence for which they have been stopped and the bald tyres then come to light - in the case of multiple offences it is not usual to deal with them by way of a fixed penalty notice.
In the case of a multiple offence such as no insurance, no licence and no licence points are put on only for the most serious offence - in that case no insurance which carries 6 to 8 points.
The Police would not issue a fixed penalty notice to someone who already has points on their licence and who could be in danger of acquiring more points than would take them to 12 which means they could be looking at a 6 month disqualification under the totting up rules.
 
Tyres which are stowed away as against actually being fitted to a vehicle and used on a public road do not have to comply with legal requirements.
You don't have to carry a spare and it does not have to comply with the legal requirements while it is stowed away. However, when fitted to the vehicle (for example, following a puncture) it must then comply with the law. The spare is not tested in the MOT but the examiner may draw your attention to an unserviceable item as a matter of courtesy.
 
The silly thing about MOT's is that is only to make sure the vehicle is road worth at the time of the test. For arguement sake a car can have all sorts of MOT failure items the next day yet still has a current MOT certificate. To me this makes a farce of having a car MOT tested

Realspeed
 
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onomatopoeia said:
I'm pretty confident that any wheel and tyre carried in a vehicle, whether the "spare" or not, does not have to be legal for road use on that or any other vehicle. As soon as it gets mounted to a car or trailer on the road, then it needs to be road legal.
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Exactly. It's the use which is an offence, not the transportation.


Steve.
 
Nod said:
onomatopoeia said:
So, if I have the racing car on the trailer on the wets (they give more ground clearance for loading) and four slicks in the van, that's 12 points for four "bald" spare tyres then?

I'm pretty confident that any wheel and tyre carried in a vehicle, whether the "spare" or not, does not have to be legal for road use on that or any other vehicle. As soon as it gets mounted to a car or trailer on the road, then it needs to be road legal.
Click to expand...

No. In that scenario, you would have a very good reason to be carrying effectively bald tyres. Chances are that the wets are marked "Track Use Only" or similar so would be just as illegal if used on the road as the slicks (24 points!) In the same way that a truck full of knackered tyres on the way to the recycling place has good reason.
Click to expand...

I'm fairly certain no one has ever run a car on the road on racing tyres! :whistling:

My favourite line came from a young Dutch hotshoe I ran in Formula Renault at the end of 1990. His Golf GTi road car was on Dunlop CR82s and when I commented on the 'for racing use only' markings he said "Oh, don't worry. I always race everywhere!" :D
 
realspeed said:
The silly thing about MOT's is that is only to make sure the vehicle is road worth at the time of the test. For arguement sake a car can have all sorts of MOT failure items the next day yet still has a current MOT certificate. To me this makes a farce of having a car MOT tested

Realspeed
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Totally agree with you there.It is stupid to have to get a road worthiness certificate when it's only valid at the time of the test. :bang:
 
FNS said:
Totally agree with you there.It is stupid to have to get a road worthiness certificate when it's only valid at the time of the test. :bang:
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That's right. And those O and A levels I got were only valid on the day I took the exams!


Steve.
 
realspeed said:
The silly thing about MOT's is that is only to make sure the vehicle is road worth at the time of the test. For arguement sake a car can have all sorts of MOT failure items the next day yet still has a current MOT certificate. To me this makes a farce of having a car MOT tested

Realspeed
Click to expand...

FNS said:
Totally agree with you there.It is stupid to have to get a road worthiness certificate when it's only valid at the time of the test. :bang:
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Not a farce at all. The MOT is a good thing. I see it as an annual safety check.

Imagine the death trap crappers that would be on the road because they had received no safety checks since they day they rolled out the factory.

Sure, the MOT may only be a certificate saying the car is road worthy on the day it was tested. But it doesn't make the car legal to drive on the road if it would fail a test...
 
onomatopoeia said:
So, if I have the racing car on the trailer on the wets (they give more ground clearance for loading) and four slicks in the van, that's 12 points for four "bald" spare tyres then?

I'm pretty confident that any wheel and tyre carried in a vehicle, whether the "spare" or not, does not have to be legal for road use on that or any other vehicle. As soon as it gets mounted to a car or trailer on the road, then it needs to be road legal.
Click to expand...

Out of interest, what sort of race car?
 
Apologies if it's already been mentioned but I think one of the changes this year is a car will fail for dashboard warning lights.

ABS lights etc

The car I just sold had ABS and ENGINE MANAGEMENT lit up for an age. No mechanical issue but lit up all the same. Faffed about with fuses and wires but honestly learned to live with it.

Now that would fail.
 
realspeed said:
The silly thing about MOT's is that is only to make sure the vehicle is road worth at the time of the test. For arguement sake a car can have all sorts of MOT failure items the next day yet still has a current MOT certificate. To me this makes a farce of having a car MOT tested

Realspeed
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That's sort of stating the obvious Bazza.

Same goes for last time I went to the dentist, watered my greenhouse or checked my balls for lumps.

The question is whether an MOT should be more frequent than every 12 months.

There was talk of it becoming a 6th month test a while back.
 
dinners said:
.

There was talk of it becoming a 6th month test a while back.
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It's a 6 monthly test here for commercial type vehicles - so if you own a van just for private use - it's tested 6 monthly.
 
Sonriendo said:
It's a 6 monthly test here for commercial type vehicles - so if you own a van just for private use - it's tested 6 monthly.
Click to expand...

Makes a lot of sense (for some items)
 
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dinners said:
The question is whether an MOT should be more frequent than every 12 months.

There was talk of it becoming a 6th month test a while back.
Click to expand...

Makes me wonder why scrap the MOT altogether for pre 1960 cars. If anything the older the car the more frequent the mot should be.
 
andrewc said:
Out of interest, what sort of race car?
Click to expand...

modsports Davrian. I use it for sprints and hills, former owners have raced it and one did tarmac stage rallies.
 
Steve Smith said:
That's right. And those O and A levels I got were only valid on the day I took the exams!


Steve.
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I don't understand what O and A levels have got to do with a vehicle MOT test?

Unless of course you can take O and A levels in MOT testing

Realspeed
 
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Nod said:
As said above, the spare isn't part of the MoT test. BUT, if you're carrying one, it has to be legal. IIRC, the penalty for a bald tyre is a fine and 3 points per bald tyre so if all 4 fitted and the spare are too thin, it's 15 points...

Absolutely no point in carrying a spare that's unusable - Murphy/Sod/Nod's law states that if you've put off getting the spare sorted, you'll get another flat! Of course, these days most spares are space savers so unsuitable for anything but emergency use so they're unlikely to wear out fast and since they don't (or at least shouldn't) be fitted for long periods in sunlight, they shouldn't rot too fast!
Click to expand...

Nod - That was the assumption i was under, but a web search suggests that may not be true...

http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/legal-advice/tyres.html
Spare tyre
You don't have to carry a spare and it does not have to comply with the legal requirements while it is stowed away. However, when fitted to the vehicle (for example, following a puncture) it must then comply with the law. The spare is not tested in the MOT but the examiner may draw your attention to an unserviceable item as a matter of courtesy.
Click to expand...
 
jason7579 said:
Makes me wonder why scrap the MOT altogether for pre 1960 cars. If anything the older the car the more frequent the mot should be.
Click to expand...

there are comparitively few pre 60s cars on the road and the overwhelming majority of those will be treasured cars which are looked after. they still have to be safe to use and comply with safety regulations it is now not compulsory that they are tested - they can still be stopped for defects on the road.

the chances of someone going to the extent of living with a pre 60s car simply to avoid an MOT are very slim and quite likely more expensive.

on the subject of MOT's my P6 has just passed hers again! :) :nuts::clap:
 
dinners said:
Apologies if it's already been mentioned but I think one of the changes this year is a car will fail for dashboard warning lights.

ABS lights etc

The car I just sold had ABS and ENGINE MANAGEMENT lit up for an age. No mechanical issue but lit up all the same. Faffed about with fuses and wires but honestly learned to live with it.

Now that would fail.
Click to expand...

Surprised it passed for an ABS warning light to be honest, it shouldn't have.

Engine management lights have never been an issue, but an ABS warning light should fail as this indicates that somewhere the ABS system is not functioning as designed.
 
RichardtheSane said:
Surprised it passed for an ABS warning light to be honest, it shouldn't have.

Engine management lights have never been an issue, but an ABS warning light should fail as this indicates that somewhere the ABS system is not functioning as designed.
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It was an electrical fault that was causing the light to come on by all accounts. The MOT it passed was May 2012. It would have failed in May 2013 regardless of why the light was on.
 
Thanks for that Phil (Rapscallion).
 
I've had a couple of cars where a light has come on for no apparent reason,
sometimes just disconnecting the battery puts it out for a while, or linking it to a laptop diagnostic
You learn to live with it, and get it sorted for the MOT if no obvious problem
 
You can clear engine management lights with a cheap £10 bluetooth OBDII adapter and a free android app.
 
Gremlin said:
I've had a couple of cars where a light has come on for no apparent reason,
sometimes just disconnecting the battery puts it out for a while, or linking it to a laptop diagnostic
You learn to live with it, and get it sorted for the MOT if no obvious problem
Click to expand...

joesmith said:
You can clear engine management lights with a cheap £10 bluetooth OBDII adapter and a free android app.
Click to expand...

This is why a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! :bang:
 
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