More untaxed vehicles since the tax disc was abolished

[dejongj]

I once drove for nearly 3 weeks without tax, was incredibly lucky not to get caught and fined, only realised the car needed to be taxed when the dealership contacted me about performing the cars first MOT that my mum had pre-paid for...this prompted me to wonder when the retax date was so went out to look...quickly prompted by an oh s*** oh s*** moment and coming in and firing up the computer to buy a tax disk

I've been there as well in the uk. I was so used to being send reminders and automatic invoice and automatic penalty in other countries that I was amazed the uk doesn't apply a very simple debtors system on their logbook register.

 

[nilagin]

I've been there as well in the uk. I was so used to being send reminders and automatic invoice and automatic penalty in other countries that I was amazed the uk doesn't apply a very simple debtors system on their logbook register.

DVLA has never yet failed to send my son or me a reminder.

 

[AJQS]

DVLA has never yet failed to send my son or me a reminder.

They always manage to send me mine the day after I've taxed it online because it's been so long I assume I'm not getting a reminder. The best was with something like 3 days remaining on the current tax.

I still have my last tax disc showing, windscreens look wrong without a tax disc!

 

[dejongj]

I've been there as well in the uk. I was so used to being send reminders and automatic invoice and automatic penalty in other countries that I was amazed the uk doesn't apply a very simple debtors system on their logbook register.

DVLA has never yet failed to send my son or me a reminder.

Actually you are correct thinking about it. It is the MOT part when a new vehicle hits three years old and then without an mot you tax the vehicle, and that is how I ended up being untaxed on those occasions where I keep a vehicle beyond three years old.

But oddly I never received within five days a penalty for being without tax and mot. I see no reason why they can't do that cheaply. That will immediately remove those from the list who didn't do it with malicious intend. Leaving those who are willfully uncompliant.

And there are plenty of methods to catch those out and locate them, fake plates or not.

 

[srichards]

Staffordshire plod are very hot on uninsured and untaxed vehicles. They stop loads every day.

I think a postal reminder is essential. Not everyone has internet access. The disk itself was a great reminder of when tax was due. No I have no idea! I have all mine on DD as then it can't be possible (unless DVLA screw up) to be without tax on any of them. I have a classic with £0 tax. I have no idea whether that will renew automatically or not.

 

[viv1969]

Still not difficult to obtain a shonky MOT.

 

[MWHCVT]

I've been there as well in the uk. I was so used to being send reminders and automatic invoice and automatic penalty in other countries that I was amazed the uk doesn't apply a very simple debtors system on their logbook register.

To be fair they do send reminders but as that car was registered in my dads name and he had been in hospital for a few weeks the reminder had gone unopened as I hadn't realised that's what the letter was still would have been no excused had I been pulled

 

[Cobra]

To have proper plates made you need a log book. .

As I found out a little while ago, after some bum 'ole either drove or backed into my front plate snapping it into 2/3rds in supermarket car park. They even took the "bit" with them or at least threw it out of sight

 

[Cobra]

I think it is easy? Set up a direct debit and forget about it. It can all be done online. Not sure what is not easy or cheap about it.

I believe there is a premium for doing it that way though.
Every other service provider "apparently" gives a discount for DD's not the government, another tax for no real reason

 

[viv1969]

It's not a charge for doing it by DD, it's a charge for paying monthly.
You always paid a premium if you purchased 6 monthly anyway.

 

[Cobra]

It's not a charge for doing it by DD, it's a charge for paying monthly.

Yeah well DD is pay monthly as far as I am concerned

 

[dejongj]

Yeah well DD is pay monthly as far as I am concerned

Lol it can be, but doesn't have to be

 

[f1charlie]

Should have scrapped the road fund licence and added it on to fuel tax, then it couldn't be avoided - but that's a whole different argument!

 

[Cobra]

Lol it can be, but doesn't have to be

Yes it does

Should have scrapped the road fund licence and added it on to fuel tax, then it couldn't be avoided - but that's a whole different argument!

I think most sensible people have been saying this for a long as I have been driving, ( and thats more years than I care to admit )

 

[MartynK]

I think most sensible people have been saying this for a long as I have been driving, ( and thats more years than I care to admit )

But that would deprive the state of potential revenue from fines...and some, misguided, people might ask how many DVLA staff have been dismissed because their services are no longer required

 

[SarahLee]

What I'd like to know is how exactly they determined that there are more untaxed vehicles on the road.

Decrease in revenue collected from road tax? Number of fines issued? Number of road tax reminders not acted upon?
Without that extra information, any statistic is pretty meaningless IMO and you could draw any number of conclusions from it depending on the point you want to make.

 

[nilagin]

Staffordshire plod are very hot on uninsured and untaxed vehicles. They stop loads every day.

I think a postal reminder is essential. Not everyone has internet access. The disk itself was a great reminder of when tax was due. No I have no idea! I have all mine on DD as then it can't be possible (unless DVLA screw up) to be without tax on any of them. I have a classic with £0 tax. I have no idea whether that will renew automatically or not.

Assuming you must keep your MOT certificate and Logbook somewhere. Write down when it's due and keep it with those or keep a reminder on your phone.

 

[nilagin]

What I'd like to know is how exactly they determined that there are more untaxed vehicles on the road.

Every vehicle post 1972 has to be taxed or sorn. They have a record of every car registered. So if any cars are not taxed and not sitting on a dealers forecourt waiting to be sold (they will have part of the log book to register this too) they will be aware of all cars untaxed.

 

[Nod]

Even pre '72 vehicles need to be taxed. Pre '72 have a £0 tariff though, you just need to go through the motions and pay what's due - sod all!

Not sure there are more untaxed vehicles these days, just that we're more aware of them since they now get clamped and stickerred.

I have such a crap memory these days that I now keep reminders on my phone's calendar to give me a month's warning of MOT, tax and insurance renewal dates and they then get put on the whiteboard on the fridge until dealt with.

 

[Phil V]

errr your obviously not a caravan or trailer owner ,you have to produce two types of i.d when purchasing number plates these days .i.e vehicle V5 and a passport or driving licence .you cannot just walk in and buy them anymore ..good idea in theory but not in practise unless you know some really dodgy characters already

You can buy them off the web without even knowing you broke the law. I know people who've done it.

 

[Phil V]

They always manage to send me mine the day after I've taxed it online because it's been so long I assume I'm not getting a reminder. The best was with something like 3 days remaining on the current tax.

I still have my last tax disc showing, windscreens look wrong without a tax disc!

You've got problems at the post office there, computer systems sending out reminders don't choose to send mine 5 weeks out and yours only a week, it's a simple enough process.

 

[AJQS]

You've got problems at the post office there, computer systems sending out reminders don't choose to send mine 5 weeks out and yours only a week, it's a simple enough process.

You'd think wouldn't you, but this is a government body.

 

[Phil V]

This should be so simple, many countries haven't used tax discs for well since ever. I don't buy that as an excuse at all.

At vehicle.tax.due_date - two week do send.reminder
If at vehicle.tax.due_date + 5 vehicle.tax = nil do
send.penalty_notice
national.anpr.vehicle.no_tax = true
If at penalty_notice.due_date penalty.paid = nil
escalate through courts, create ccj, impound vehicle etc.

This really doesn't have to be this hard.

This^

How is it difficult? it's what HMRC do.

 

[Phil V]

You'd think wouldn't you, but this is a government body.

Really, I know a bit about government computer systems.

And anyone who understands the principals of databases would question your post. They work on simple maths, they can't treat you different to me or my Mrs just for s***s and giggles.

 

[srichards]

They probably use UK mail to deliver the letters. They're atrocious. Many items take weeks to arrive. I had a set to with my bank over using uk mail as the monthly statements were taking up to 3 weeks to arrive.

 

[dejongj]

They probably use UK mail to deliver the letters. They're atrocious. Many items take weeks to arrive. I had a set to with my bank over using uk mail as the monthly statements were taking up to 3 weeks to arrive.

I do think this is a fair point, HMRC has a habit of sending out letter that if I received it today, the issue date is several weeks ago, and the time left to respond is significantly reduced. It annoys me. Then again those brown envelopes do get priority treatment in my household, so realistically it never is an issue, further more when speaking to them, I've normally found them reasonable if you discuss and talk normally to them...

 

[Cobra]

HMRC has a habit of sending out letter that if I received it today, the issue date is several weeks ago,

That's because you live in the middle of nowhere and the pony express riders need a break half way up that hill

 

[AJQS]

Really, I know a bit about government computer systems.

And anyone who understands the principals of databases would question your post. They work on simple maths, they can't treat you different to me or my Mrs just for s***s and giggles.

You're trying to tell me government computer systems and departments in general are totally efficient and excellent service providers? Pull the other one! Have you ever dealt with the DVLA? 4 attempts it took to get them to put the right name as the registered keeper for a previous car of mine, and they never got it 100% right in the end. All because the owner before the guy I got it from had a similar name to me.

As it happens I have to deal with databases daily too, fortunately my own is pretty good and does what it's meant to. The one at work however is a very different story.

 

[fazer]

Other half has a year old car purchased new and received notification to pay £NIL. Three weeks later DVLA notification 'Last chance!' to pay or else. Read through original notice and 3/4 down form says;
You must either;
tax your vehicle; even if you don't pay
tell us you are keeping your vehicle off road (SORN); or
tell us you no longer have the vehicle

Of course it's in a smaller font than the previous part indicating

12 months NIL
Car driven for 2 of the 3 weeks, but wonder what would have happened if stopped by police? Car seized or common sense warning to register?

 

[Byker28i]

Yes, the amount of untaxed vehicles has doubled. When paper tax discs were required anyone could report an untaxed vehicle online to the DVLC or to the police. To remove that facility shows that there is no interest in pursing reported offenders.

Worse, I reported a vehicle that was dumped for 16 months, never moved, had to wait until the tax expired in august, only you report it now to the local council, not the police. Several people reported it and it took them 3 months to clamp it.
Clamp it! What was the point? It's not moved for a year. It was finally removed last week.

 

[Phil V]

You're trying to tell me government computer systems and departments in general are totally efficient and excellent service providers? Pull the other one! Have you ever dealt with the DVLA? 4 attempts it took to get them to put the right name as the registered keeper for a previous car of mine, and they never got it 100% right in the end. All because the owner before the guy I got it from had a similar name to me.

As it happens I have to deal with databases daily too, fortunately my own is pretty good and does what it's meant to. The one at work however is a very different story.

Which has nothing to do with your original point and is clearly human error.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good old rant, after all, if it's the governments fault, it's easy for everyone to understand. Keep it simple

 

[dejongj]

Other half has a year old car purchased new and received notification to pay £NIL. Three weeks later DVLA notification 'Last chance!' to pay or else. Read through original notice and 3/4 down form says;
You must either;
tax your vehicle; even if you don't pay
tell us you are keeping your vehicle off road (SORN); or
tell us you no longer have the vehicle

Of course it's in a smaller font than the previous part indicating

12 months NIL
Car driven for 2 of the 3 weeks, but wonder what would have happened if stopped by police? Car seized or common sense warning to register?

So did the other half pay? I recalled that when I had the Prius I had to pay nothing in order to get it taxed. It seemed a pointless exercise but I guess it trigger the producer for MOT and Insurance checks and data quality for the V5, therefore I paid nothing and got my tax.

 

[Box Brownie]

Using a dvla checker site I noted that one car parked ages in an adjacent cul de sac is SORN declared but parked on the public road. Another been parked for something over 6 weeks is showing as insured but untaxed.

I just wish there were at least the occasional walk about by PCSO's who could see such infringements ........but hang a mo, no disk = no outward sign of wrongdoing! Just leaves inconvenience for other road user residents.

Or maybe like the bin lorries we need mobile anpr cameras every few months......now there is an idea install anpr on vehicles that regularly access residential roads like bin lorries or post office delivery vans. I surmise they would detect a lot of infringing vehicles.

 

[dejongj]

Using a dvla checker site I noted that one car parked ages in an adjacent cul de sac is SORN declared but parked on the public road. Another been parked for something over 6 weeks is showing as insured but untaxed.

I just wish there were at least the occasional walk about by PCSO's who could see such infringements ........but hang a mo, no disk = no outward sign of wrongdoing! Just leaves inconvenience for other road user residents.

Or maybe like the bin lorries we need mobile anpr cameras every few months......now there is an idea install anpr on vehicles that regularly access residential roads like bin lorries or post office delivery vans. I surmise they would detect a lot of infringing vehicles.

If there was a mobile ANPR like on a police vehicle driving through that cul de sac then it would pick it up. Why not report it yourself if you know this is happening....PS You will get what you wish for

 

[fazer]

So did the other half pay? I recalled that when I had the Prius I had to pay nothing in order to get it taxed. It seemed a pointless exercise but I guess it trigger the producer for MOT and Insurance checks and data quality for the V5, therefore I paid nothing and got my tax.

Just went into website and confirmed taxing for 12 months. Answer came back as vehicle now taxed. What a waste of time but I suppose it ties up with insurance and takes the car off the ANPR list of untaxed/uninsured vehicles.

 

[Phil V]

Back to the OP though, there's no mention of where the stats come from, or how the measurement was made?

It's frankly a bit of a tabloid story with a paucity of factual information and a lot of surmising.

I'm basing this on...

The DVLA haven't stopped issuing reminders.

The DVLA haven't stopped issuing notices

And they haven't stopped issuing fines, so how are twice as many people avoiding the VED ?

 

[Nod]

If there was a mobile ANPR like on a police vehicle driving through that cul de sac then it would pick it up. Why not report it yourself if you know this is happening....PS You will get what you wish for

This. ^^^ Although if there are cars parked close to the "offending" one, the van might miss it - they did one of the ones abandoned here. Picked it up when they came back to check on another one that had been left here. It's now clamped and stickered up, just waiting for them to take it away. Hoping we spot the truck turning up so we can move our cars away from it!

Just went into website and confirmed taxing for 12 months. Answer came back as vehicle now taxed. What a waste of time but I suppose it ties up with insurance and takes the car off the ANPR list of untaxed/uninsured vehicles.

Not sure anyone's EVER claimed that the DVLFA have been anything but a useless cunch of bu***!

 

[dejongj]

Just went into website and confirmed taxing for 12 months. Answer came back as vehicle now taxed. What a waste of time but I suppose it ties up with insurance and takes the car off the ANPR list of untaxed/uninsured vehicles.

Whilst it may seem so, remember you are still paying tax. Same as with other things like zero rated VAT etc, you still pay it Therefore it has to be accounted for.

 

[Nod]

Some years back there was a report (possibly an urban legend!) of someone getting a final demand from the Inland Revenue for £000.00 along with a threat of the bailiffs being sent in to collect the outstanding debt. In the end he sent them a cheque for the full amount and the problem went away. I would have paid it in cash...

 

[Cobra]

Some years back there was a report (possibly an urban legend!) of someone getting a final demand from the Inland Revenue for £000.00 along with a threat of the bailiffs being sent in to collect the outstanding debt. In the end he sent them a cheque for the full amount and the problem went away. I would have paid it in cash...

The way I "heard it" was that they wouldn't accept cash, it had to be a cheque to keep the records straight
Urban legend or not, it does sounds plausible though