More untaxed vehicles since the tax disc was abolished

Tringa said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34933962

Is anyone really surprised? While a great idea in one way, it always looked like a policy that was not thought through, or one that had backing from fairly high and no one wanted to point out potential problems.

Dave
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Yes, the amount of untaxed vehicles has doubled. When paper tax discs were required anyone could report an untaxed vehicle online to the DVLC or to the police. To remove that facility shows that there is no interest in pursing reported offenders.
 
Not surprised in the slightest, I said as much when it was first announced,
the fact that yellow perils, I mean traffic wardens et al would immediately see that a car was not taxed, now the offender has to be unlucky enough to drive past an NPR van
and if they had their wits about them, they probably would have time to U-Turn too :rolleyes:
 
This should be so simple, many countries haven't used tax discs for well since ever. I don't buy that as an excuse at all.

At vehicle.tax.due_date - two week do send.reminder
If at vehicle.tax.due_date + 5 vehicle.tax = nil do
send.penalty_notice
national.anpr.vehicle.no_tax = true
If at penalty_notice.due_date penalty.paid = nil
escalate through courts, create ccj, impound vehicle etc.

This really doesn't have to be this hard.
 
Cobra said:
Not surprised in the slightest, I said as much when it was first announced,
the fact that yellow perils, I mean traffic wardens et al would immediately see that a car was not taxed, now the offender has to be unlucky enough to drive past an NPR van
and if they had their wits about them, they probably would have time to U-Turn too :rolleyes:
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It's irrelevant as if not taxed and not sorn just issue the penalty to the registered keeper. What are they waiting for?
 
do not exists in France - abolished a few years ago - tax put onto fuel - but the fuel in France is still cheaper than the UK - go figure???
 
They have made it dead easy to flout the law, just put false plates from a similar car on and who will know.
Seems to be happening, give false details when buying the car and once again who would know, seller has done thier bit, buyer has a car, no need for docs
 
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Gremlin said:
They have made it dead easy to flout the law, just put false plates from a similar car on and who will know.
Seems to be happening, give false details when buying the car and once again who would know, seller has done thier bit, buyer has a car, no need for docs
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Dvla knows, just issue the penalty charge to the registered keeper. Simples.
 
dejongj said:
Dvla knows, just issue the penalty charge to the registered keeper. Simples.
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I wonder how and where to, the " of no fixed abode" persons register their cars ;)
But as @Gremlin said, false details and no one can track them down.
 
Wardens can still check the tax status.
Lazy owners is all it is.

And if on checking the details don't tally, seize it.
 
Cobra said:
I wonder how and where to, the " of no fixed abode" persons register their cars ;)
But as @Gremlin said, false details and no one can track them down.
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Sure, but false details is nothing new and unrelated to the new tax system. It has always existed. Heck people also used to put false tax discs on show. You'll get into a whole lot of different trouble with than one. And guaranteed a nice little marker on ANPR and pnc.

Naturally the penalty issued to the fake registered keeper makes no difference, but again it is no different than it was before.
 
viv1969 said:
Wardens can still check the tax status.
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I guess electronically?
But I bet they CBA, it was easy while walking past to glance in, but if they were to check each one as they walked passed with a PDA (or whatever)
That means the would not be getting so many parking tickets issued in a day, its nearly Xmas ( sorry :( ) and they need their bonus's :thumbs:
 
Cobra said:
I guess electronically?
But I bet they CBA, it was easy while walking past to glance in, but if they were to check each one as they walked passed with a PDA (or whatever)
That means the would not be getting so many parking tickets issued in a day, its nearly Xmas ( sorry :( ) and they need their bonus's (y)
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More chance of being picked up by one of the many ANPR cameras of both fixed and mobile locations. As they are linked nationally there is very few hiding places.
 
dejongj said:
You'll get into a whole lot of different trouble with than one.
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As an aside, my brother was telling me the other day, a mate of his is a trucker, he is still showing an old tax disc in the window,
he was issued a fixed penalty notice, for displaying an out of date tax disc.
It seems the law regarding the need to display has been revoked, the law regarding displaying an out of date disc has not.

He, well his boss, that is, did fight it through the court system and won, BTW
 
dejongj said:
ANPR cameras of both fixed and mobile locations. As they are linked nationally there is very few hiding places.
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You can run but you can't hide ( from big brother ;) )
 
it is an outdated system - taxes should be easy to collect, cheap to collect and fair
 
I wonder how many people don't realise that when they buy a car the tax no longer remains with the car and is cancelled immediately. Also if a dealer taxes it for you if they screw up the change of keeper will trigger it to be cancelled but you won't know for several months. Ditto signing the car over to a spouse etc.
 
BillN_33 said:
it is an outdated system - taxes should be easy to collect, cheap to collect and fair
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I don't think anyone will argue with that, except the politicians of course, it keeps them in work ;)
 
BillN_33 said:
it is an outdated system - taxes should be easy to collect, cheap to collect and fair
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I think it is easy? Set up a direct debit and forget about it. It can all be done online. Not sure what is not easy or cheap about it.
 
Cobra said:
As an aside, my brother was telling me the other day, a mate of his is a trucker, he is still showing an old tax disc in the window,
he was issued a fixed penalty notice, for displaying an out of date tax disc.
It seems the law regarding the need to display has been revoked, the law regarding displaying an out of date disc has not.

He, well his boss, that is, did fight it through the court system and won, BTW
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Nice to hear common sense prevailed. :thumbs:
 
dejongj said:
More chance of being picked up by one of the many ANPR cameras of both fixed and mobile locations. As they are linked nationally there is very few hiding places.
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So you buy a black golf, give the seller a false name etc. You already have a set of plates from an identical vehicle you have seen on the road, or someone has
proudly posted pictures on the internet of.
You go through an ANPR camera and it shows as taxed, insured and Mot'd except it's not, how does that get picked up ?
 
Gremlin said:
So you buy a black golf, give the seller a false name etc. You already have a set of plates from an identical vehicle you have seen on the road, or someone has
proudly posted pictures on the internet of.
You go through an ANPR camera and it shows as taxed, insured and Mot'd except it's not, how does that get picked up ?
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The scenario is no different than it was previously, the change in tax system is irrelevant.
 
dejongj said:
Nice to hear common sense prevailed. (y)
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Hopefully a precedent has been set, as you can bet there will be more.
(I wonder if it was a deliberate act not repealing that one ? ;) )
 
dejongj said:
I think it is easy? Set up a direct debit and forget about it. It can all be done online. Not sure what is not easy or cheap about it.
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so you reckon that it is cheap to collect, (from all), easy to collect, (from all) and FAIR, (to all)

did you read what I said or just choose what you wanted or do you just make it all up............. clearly your have missed you vocation, you should advise Government

is it FAIR that a private motorist who drives 8,000 miles pa pays the same as a company car user with the same car who does 40,000 miles pa

do you know the different between "pay" and "collect"

how is it easy for the Government to collect the tax ........ and is it cheap for them to collect and enforce

how is it easy for many to pay the tax ... who do not have an internet connection etc., ..... the "older" generation
 
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dejongj said:
The scenario is no different than it was previously, the change in tax system is irrelevant.
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Very different as everything is now online, false tax disc were harder to come by.
I was pulled a while back by a friendly policeman to tell me I had a brake light out
no request to show any documents as he knew I was MOT'd and insured etc
 
Gremlin said:
Very different as everything is now online, false tax disc were harder to come by.
I was pulled a while back by a friendly policeman to tell me I had a brake light out
no request to show any documents as he knew I was MOT'd and insured etc
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And he knew you were taxed. Exactly the same as now. And not just the police man, every camera on every corner. Falsifying the tax disc was so easy that it was pointless having it on display.
 
The change will make no difference to those that were inclined not to pay for a tax disc before the change, they will still not pay it

It will be interesting to see how many of the new non payers is down to ignorance and not understanding the new system
 
It shouldn't be hard to enforce, but in a country that is cutting funds from every enforcement sector it's inevitable.

Saying that I've seen 2 dvla roadside anpr vans recently.

E: I've also been displaying my old disk since it went obsolete and not and had any bother.
 
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BillN_33 said:
so you reckon that it is cheap to collect, (from all), easy to collect, (from all) and FAIR, (to all)

did you read what I said or just choose what you wanted or do you just make it all up............. clearly your have missed you vocation, you should advise Government

is it FAIR that a private motorist who drives 8,000 miles pa pays the same as a company car user with the same car who does 40,000 miles pa

do you know the different between "pay" and "collect"

how is it easy for the Government to collect the tax ........ and is it cheap for them to collect and enforce

how is it easy for many to pay the tax ... who do not have an internet connection etc., ..... the "older" generation
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Yes
Who says I'm not already
Yes
Yes
Easy and cheap, and yes enforce as well
Oh yes, very easy. There is a pretty high penetration of silver surfers. No excuses, and other payment methods are available as well. No material change there actually.
 
neil_g said:
It shouldn't be hard to enforce, but in a country that is cutting funds from every enforcement sector it's inevitable.

Saying that I've seen 2 dvla roadside anpr vans recently.

E: I've also been displaying my old disk since it went obsolete and not and had any bother.
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And those are just the mobile ones ;)
 
BillN_33 said:
how is it easy for many to pay the tax ... who do not have an internet connection etc., ..... the "older" generation
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Just as easy as it ever was.
 
BillN_33 said:
how is it easy for many to pay the tax ... who do not have an internet connection etc., ..... the "older" generation
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You can still queue up in the post office just like the good old days, if that's what you really want to do. My parents are 77 and 80 and they bank online, so by the "older" generation, do you mean the "so old that they shouldn't be dirivng any more" generation?

I'm very happy that at last my road tax auto renews by direct debit every year, so I don't have to do anything - I asked for this over a decade ago.

It should be abolished and put on fuel though. That would serve the greenies, as efficient cars that use less fuel and consequently produce less emissions would effectively pay less per mile than me who drives around in something not very efficient at all, but jolly fast.
 
Gremlin said:
They have made it dead easy to flout the law, just put false plates from a similar car on and who will know.
Seems to be happening, give false details when buying the car and once again who would know, seller has done thier bit, buyer has a car, no need for docs
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To have proper plates made you need a log book. If you give false details when buying a car, then surely someone else who hasn't bought the car will receive the logbook.
 
Gremlin said:
So you buy a black golf, give the seller a false name etc. You already have a set of plates from an identical vehicle you have seen on the road, or someone has
proudly posted pictures on the internet of.
You go through an ANPR camera and it shows as taxed, insured and Mot'd except it's not, how does that get picked up ?
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errr your obviously not a caravan or trailer owner ,you have to produce two types of i.d when purchasing number plates these days .i.e vehicle V5 and a passport or driving licence .you cannot just walk in and buy them anymore ..good idea in theory but not in practise unless you know some really dodgy characters already
 
BillN_33 said:
is it FAIR that a private motorist who drives 8,000 miles pa pays the same as a company car user with the same car who does 40,000 miles pa
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Except the 'Sunday drivers' who often cause accidents due to slow reactions/lack of recent experience?
 
the black fox said:
but not in practise unless you know some really dodgy characters already
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Exactly, those who choose to flaunt the law will already have 'a mate' who produce such plates wholesale. Ask around and you are sure to be able to locate one.
 
It's dead easy to buy 'show' plates. Order them online. Send anywhere, no checks.
 
I think the ease with which false plates can be obtained has been covered, much as in the old days false MOTs could be bought resulting in some very
dodgy cars,
TBH when the online things first came out I thought it was a good idea until I had the pitfalls pointed out, some people just won't bother with false plates etc,
they will just flout the laws, but I bet a fair few will and there have been cases of it showing up already.

Near me we have ticketless parking in all the town multi storey car parks, you put the reg number in and pay, number plate recognition does the rest.
So what happens if an organised car thief wants the car, easy just pay the parking and drive it out, those that steal to order have the means to do it.
 
Gremlin said:
I think the ease with which false plates can be obtained has been covered, much as in the old days false MOTs could be bought resulting in some very
dodgy cars,
TBH when the online things first came out I thought it was a good idea until I had the pitfalls pointed out, some people just won't bother with false plates etc,
they will just flout the laws, but I bet a fair few will and there have been cases of it showing up already.

Near me we have ticketless parking in all the town multi storey car parks, you put the reg number in and pay, number plate recognition does the rest.
So what happens if an organised car thief wants the car, easy just pay the parking and drive it out, those that steal to order have the means to do it.
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Even when car parks had tickets there was a lost ticket fee. All a ticketless system means is the thief doesn't have to pay the fee. Doesn't really deter them from stealing cars other than the fact that ticketless car parks with anpr cameras also have cctv, where as before they may not.
 
I once drove for nearly 3 weeks without tax, was incredibly lucky not to get caught and fined, only realised the car needed to be taxed when the dealership contacted me about performing the cars first MOT that my mum had pre-paid for...this prompted me to wonder when the retax date was so went out to look...quickly prompted by an oh s*** oh s*** moment and coming in and firing up the computer to buy a tax disk
 
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