More Flattering Female Lighting

the_local_jacko

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Martin
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I took the below image of my partner when playing with my studio equipment at the weekend. It was basically one studio flash high at 45 degrees to subject camera right, shooting into a reflective umbrella and one studio flash lighting a Hilite. When I showed my partner the image she didn't like the black shadow in the crease from her smile to the left side of her mouth.

I have both a reflector (which I didn't have when I shot this) and a Di622 speed light available on top of the equipment mentioned above. I thought maybe introduce the speed light as fill light in some way but then I have the issue of how best to soften it. I would be very interested to hear how others may light the image to be a little more flattering?


Louise in the Studio by the_local_jacko, on Flickr
 
The complaint is at odds with my answer.
Your GF has a round face, the common technique would be to slim the face by throwing more of it into shadow, google short lighting. Bt you really need to find something about face shapes and lighting, it's a fascinating subject and also includes posing angles and camera angles to make the most of it.
Heres a quick find.

The large flat soft lighting that's become 'normal' doesn't really flatter anyone, and when I was learning photography was only really recommended for beautiful young women (read slim and flawless complexion). Like white backgrounds, it's become the norm and photography generally is poorer for it.

Oddly all photographers actually know better, if I asked you to post your 5 favourite portraits, none of them would have flat light or a white background. But ask 10 relativeely new photographers to produce a 'studio portrait' and 8 of them will go for a white background and fairly flat lighting.

I'll stop now I'm starting to sound like Garry.
 
Phil V said:
The complaint is at odds with my answer.
Your GF has a round face, the common technique would be to slim the face by throwing more of it into shadow, google short lighting. Bt you really need to find something about face shapes and lighting, it's a fascinating subject and also includes posing angles and camera angles to make the most of it.
Heres a quick find.

The large flat soft lighting that's become 'normal' doesn't really flatter anyone, and when I was learning photography was only really recommended for beautiful young women (read slim and flawless complexion). Like white backgrounds, it's become the norm and photography generally is poorer for it.

Oddly all photographers actually know better, if I asked you to post your 5 favourite portraits, none of them would have flat light or a white background. But ask 10 relativeely new photographers to produce a 'studio portrait' and 8 of them will go for a white background and fairly flat lighting.

I'll stop now I'm starting to sound like Garry.

All valid pints and hence why I am asking to seek out alternatives as I am genuinely intrigued by the subject. I don't want to open up another debate on "chavground"or whatever the phrase is that Gary had patented. :-)

Thanks for the advice. Ill take a look at the link with interest. I don't expect a miracle cure for making females into super models, I just thought I would hear people's views and ideas.
 
Serious point, forget the immediate issue for a minute and grab 5 really good portraits from the web. then try to work out what it is that attracts you to them. A fiver says none of them will be on a white background.

It's not snobbery, I do very little studio type stuff, and about 80% of it is white background - because it's what people want, and I'm not actively marketing an alternative.
 
Phil V said:
Serious point, forget the immediate issue for a minute and grab 5 really good portraits from the web. then try to work out what it is that attracts you to them. A fiver says none of them will be on a white background.

It's not snobbery, I do very little studio type stuff, and about 80% of it is white background - because it's what people want, and I'm not actively marketing an alternative.

I can see where your coming from entirely with that. Most of my favourite portraits would have no studio lighting at all to be honest as natural lighting and lots of bokeh appeal to me most. I am attending a workshop on that very subject in a couple weeks time on that front. In this case I happened to have taken this shot against the Hilite as that was one of the tools that I had available. I do not have another background to hand as of yet.
 
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The complaint is at odds with my answer.
Your GF has a round face, the common technique would be to slim the face by throwing more of it into shadow, google short lighting. Bt you really need to find something about face shapes and lighting, it's a fascinating subject and also includes posing angles and camera angles to make the most of it.
Heres a quick find.

The large flat soft lighting that's become 'normal' doesn't really flatter anyone, and when I was learning photography was only really recommended for beautiful young women (read slim and flawless complexion). Like white backgrounds, it's become the norm and photography generally is poorer for it.

Oddly all photographers actually know better, if I asked you to post your 5 favourite portraits, none of them would have flat light or a white background. But ask 10 relativeely new photographers to produce a 'studio portrait' and 8 of them will go for a white background and fairly flat lighting.

I'll stop now I'm starting to sound like Garry.

As expected, I agree 100%.

Let's go back a bit...
I would be very interested to hear how others may light the image to be a little more flattering?
More flattering in what way? What are you trying to achieve here? What's the purpose of the photo anyway?

If you want it to flatter her in the sense that you want to show her as a nice, kind person who is friendly and sympathetic, then you've done a very good job.

If you want to flatter her looks though, there's room for improvement. As Phil says, go for short lighting if you want to really slim her face, there's nothing quite like it if that's the effect you want.

Photography is a 2-dimensional medium that depicts 3-dimensional subjects. That's why people tend to look much rounder in photos than they do in real life. If you want her to look as slim in the photo as she does in real life, you need to light some parts of her more than others - so don't light the sides of her face, as you have done here. Short lighting involves having the face at an angle and only lighting the part of the face that is least visible to the camera (the opposite of this is called broad lighting) but another way of doing it is to have the light high and directly in front of where her face is pointing, this will draw attention to her cheekbones and leave the sides of her face unlit, or lit less brightly, which will slim the face a lot. It will also place the catchlight in the eyes higher, which will make the eyes look bigger.

If you want her to look sexy, don't get her to smile. You will NEVER see a shot of a sexy woman smiling, partly because the smile creates the creases and shadows that she's complaining about, and partly because when people smile they look nice - people want to talk to nice people but they don't want to take them to bed:)

If she can do it whilst looking natural (and a lot of people can't) get her to have her lips slightly apart, but not smiling. This makes the lips look bigger, with obvious sexual connotations, it creates that essential little shadow under the bottom lip too.

I wouldn't use a fill light for this type of lighting, I would put your speedlight on her hair instead.

And I wouldn't use your reflector either. I would get a sheet of A4 white paper, fold it in half (A5) and get her to hold it just out of shot, so that it directs a little light under her chin only.

Try it an see. There will be shadows and you may find your clothes in a bin bag outside the front door, but I think that you'll like it.

This is a fairly extreme example of what I mean. You'll either like it or hate it:)
D3A_0893-re_A.jpg

Whether you like it or not, it illustrates what I mean.
BTW, not my photo. Michael Sewell did the clicky bit, I was just there as general factotum and labourer, and I like to make 'helpful' suggestions on the lighting:)
This shot was taken for a particular purpose and fits the brief well. It isn't your average family portrait, but the principles apply
 
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Watch this....

[YOUTUBE]qM7CcUrUD2g[/YOUTUBE]

Teaches you a lot about shadows and light position.
 
Brilliant, thanks a lot guys for taking the time to respond. This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

The issue is that she really is not a model but is kind of getting roped into this kind of thing at the minute. I think I either need to get myself onto a pure lighting workshop or look to invest in a mannequin so I can practice some of these techniques as I am truly fascinated by it.
 
These videos about lighting principles are very useful. Lighting eggs is pretty standard on degree courses, and it's a good way of making students think about the use of light and shadow.

Photography, and particularly the controlled lighting of studio photography, is all about using light (or, more accurately, using shadow) to define shape and texture.

I'm not sure that a mannequin will be much help to you. Plastic skin, hair and eyes doesn't reflect light in the same way that the genuine article does, and this can be unhelpful.

The way to learn about light is to photograph still life subjects - literally anything will do, as long as it's big enough (an egg isn't) to be able to use light to light selected parts or it. Still life photography is a challenge for many people, but it is arguably one of the most difficult genres in technical terms.

Which is probably why good product photographers earn a lot more than most other photographers.
 
Garry Edwards said:
These videos about lighting principles are very useful. Lighting eggs is pretty standard on degree courses, and it's a good way of making students think about the use of light and shadow.

Photography, and particularly the controlled lighting of studio photography, is all about using light (or, more accurately, using shadow) to define shape and texture.

I'm not sure that a mannequin will be much help to you. Plastic skin, hair and eyes doesn't reflect light in the same way that the genuine article does, and this can be unhelpful.

The way to learn about light is to photograph still life subjects - literally anything will do, as long as it's big enough (an egg isn't) to be able to use light to light selected parts or it. Still life photography is a challenge for many people, but it is arguably one of the most difficult genres in technical terms.

Which is probably why good product photographers earn a lot more than most other photographers.

Ok a stop off at Sainsburys on the way home for a Mellon it is then. :-)

Incidentally, I know from previous posts that you were on a hiatus from your lighting workshops but are there any future plans in the pipeline? I check Lencarta website regularly so wondered if there had been any developments?
 
Ok a stop off at Sainsburys on the way home for a Mellon it is then. :-)

Incidentally, I know from previous posts that you were on a hiatus from your lighting workshops but are there any future plans in the pipeline? I check Lencarta website regularly so wondered if there had been any developments?
There's no hiatus as such, we never run them between December and March because of the possibility of poor road conditions, as some people travel hundreds of miles to get here. The situation is that Lencarta is growing rapidly, new people need to be taken on and trained. Meanwhile, I have more and more to do, and I have plenty of other work outside of Lencarta. I'm aging, my health isn't brilliant and my weekends are important to me.

Because of all this, no decisions have yet been taken on the lighting workshops for 2013 in my own studio (Although Michael Sewell is running his own location lighting courses)

This is something that needs to be dealt with. I'm guessing that it will get sorted out whilst we're all at Focus, we tend to focus on things there:)
 
Garry Edwards said:
There's no hiatus as such, we never run them between December and March because of the possibility of poor road conditions, as some people travel hundreds of miles to get here. The situation is that Lencarta is growing rapidly, new people need to be taken on and trained. Meanwhile, I have more and more to do, and I have plenty of other work outside of Lencarta. I'm aging, my health isn't brilliant and my weekends are important to me.

Because of all this, no decisions have yet been taken on the lighting workshops for 2013 in my own studio (Although Michael Sewell is running his own location lighting courses)

This is something that needs to be dealt with. I'm guessing that it will get sorted out whilst we're all at Focus, we tend to focus on things there:)

Ok thanks for the update. Ill keep an eye out and see what develops.
 
Ok a stop off at Sainsburys on the way home for a Mellon it is then. :-)

Incidentally, I know from previous posts that you were on a hiatus from your lighting workshops but are there any future plans in the pipeline? I check Lencarta website regularly so wondered if there had been any developments?

Pineapple is good :)

Edit: those commercial links can be very irritating, it's a figgin P I N E A P P L E.
 
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I can see the conversation now...

"What are you doing darling ?"

"I'm just testing out my lighting so that I can take more flattering photos of you"

"I see.. so you think that my face looks like a pineapple do you... ???"
 
I can see the conversation now...

"What are you doing darling ?"

"I'm just testing out my lighting so that I can take more flattering photos of you"

"I see.. so you think that my face looks like a pineapple do you... ???"

"...only your hair darling."
 
Jerm said:
I can see the conversation now...

"What are you doing darling ?"

"I'm just testing out my lighting so that I can take more flattering photos of you"

"I see.. so you think that my face looks like a pineapple do you... ???"

Hahaha. Fantastic. Im already in the dog house and that might be the final straw.
 
I will have another attempt taking some of these things into consideration and post the results. Thanks a lot for the advice everyone.
 
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