Mobile phones/drivers/6 points

DorsetDude

DorsetDude

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No arguments from me about increased penalties for using phone while driving. Mine goes in my ass pocket and stays there til I get home.

However a question, if I had a mobile phone stand on the dash and an app on my phone to basically make it a sat nav, could I use it, as a sat nav without risk of 6 points? If I cant, are sat nav devices now also illegal?

Grey area it seems to me.

EDIT Ive just thought maybe this should be in hot topics/already is. :oops: :$
 
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DorsetDude said:
However a question, if I had a mobile phone stand on the dash and an app on my phone to basically make it a sat nav, could I use it, as a sat nav without risk of 6 points?
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Yes. In fact, I have a feeling that you can use it as a phone as long as you're not actually holding it to your ear.
 
Yes, you can use it, but just like a regular satnav (or anything else for that matter), you can be open to driving without due care, if fiddling whilst actually driving.
 
It's not just holding to the ear, the number of people posting on social media whilst driving is ridiculous
 
I'm still astounded about the number of drivers you see blatantly using their phone (to their ear) whilst driving - even in some cars you know have Bluetooth installed as standard !!!
 
you can use a phone in its holder but poking the screen while driving is still classed as using it, i would say with a sat nav it would be the same.
you would be expected to pull over and set it and then set off i guess.

i also have a separate sat nav a tomtom and i would not want to adjust it while driving.
 
andyred said:
I'm still astounded about the number of drivers you see blatantly using their phone (to their ear) whilst driving - even in some cars you know have Bluetooth installed as standard !!!
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Its people obviosly texting/writing something/reading that I see the most. Worse than being on the phone I reckon because your eyes are off the road.
I nearly drove into the back of the car in front of me this morning as I was tutting away and shaking my head at a driver to my left obviously on his phone.
 
I use the phone a lot while driving, always on bluetooth. Also have a separate satnav and have that situated too far away to reach while driving just to keep temptation at bay.
 
They set up a "Trap" not far from me yesterday. They collared 4 in the first hour, one had only been driving for a few months and so he's going to lose his licence. His increased insurance premium will make the fine seem like peanuts.
No argument from me.
 
Graham W said:
They set up a "Trap" not far from me yesterday. They collared 4 in the first hour, one had only been driving for a few months and so he's going to lose his licence. His increased insurance premium will make the fine seem like peanuts.
No argument from me.
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It seems to be one of those crimes where poeple think everyone else doing it is stupid but they themselves are perfectly capable of texting /phoning whilst driving. And not addicted to their phone at all.
 
DorsetDude said:
Its people obviosly texting/writing something/reading that I see the most. Worse than being on the phone I reckon because your eyes are off the road.
I nearly drove into the back of the car in front of me this morning as I was tutting away and shaking my head at a driver to my left obviously on his phone.
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your dead right, i see more people looking down at their laps now reading and consuming facebook, whatsapp, text messages.
it seems that is now seen as a more acceptable way to talk while in the car via a messanger service.
i genuinlly think its nuts what contempt people now have for the basics of being a good person in society, off topic its the same as speeding.
most people now think speeding is ok as it is all about the police catching them speeding.

oh well
 
Graham W said:
They set up a "Trap" not far from me yesterday. They collared 4 in the first hour, one had only been driving for a few months and so he's going to lose his licence. His increased insurance premium will make the fine seem like peanuts.
No argument from me.
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Not to mention having to retake both parts of his test again.
 
i also note that under the new rules no more dodging points with one of those stupid courses its 6 points BHAM !

i wish they would do that with speeding as well.
 
DorsetDude said:
Its people obviosly texting/writing something/reading that I see the most. Worse than being on the phone I reckon because your eyes are off the road.
I nearly drove into the back of the car in front of me this morning as I was tutting away and shaking my head at a driver to my left obviously on his phone.
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Not sure that people phoning are watching the road. People phoning while walking are usually oblivious of their surroundings and I'm not sure I see why driving would make it different.
 
sphexx said:
Not sure that people phoning are watching the road. People phoning while walking are usually oblivious of their surroundings and I'm not sure I see why driving would make it different.
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Certainly not as safe as not being on the phone at all for sure.
 
Mr Bump said:
you can use a phone in its holder but poking the screen while driving is still classed as using it
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No, it isn't. The offence is using a handheld mobile phone, not touching the screen of a non-handheld phone in a holder.
 
Dave1 said:
No, it isn't. The offence is using a handheld mobile phone, not touching the screen of a non-handheld phone in a holder.
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So if you had a mobile phone in a holder, you could for instance open a text or select some music and you wouldnt get stopped and given 6 points under the new rule? I wouldnt risk it I dont think.
 
DorsetDude said:
So if you had a mobile phone in a holder, you could for instance open a text or select some music and you wouldnt get stopped and given 6 points under the new rule? I wouldnt risk it I dont think.
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  • The offence would apply to drivers speaking or listening to a phone call, using a device interactively for accessing any sort of data, which would include the Internet, sending or receiving text messages or other images if it was held in the driver's hand during at least part of the period of its operation. Within the context of holding a phone, pushing buttons on a phone while in a cradle or being operated via buttons on the steering wheel or handlebars of a motorbike would not breach the new law;
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    http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN00366/SN00366.pdf

Opening and reading a text on a phone in a holder while driving could see a driving without due care and attention (careless driving) charge if you were to wobble/drift across the road while reading it (and be noticed doing so), but not a using mobile phone while driving charge.
 
DorsetDude said:
Youve been on one then?

I have and thought it was actually pretty good.
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oh i am sure they are but they don't seem to persuade people to not offend.
 
DorsetDude said:
Youve been on one then?

I have and thought it was actually pretty good.
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nope haven't had any offence/points on my licence at all since i was 23 and i am now 47 becuase i don't speed and wouldn't dream of using a mobile whilst driving and generally respect other road users.
 
sphexx said:
People phoning while walking are usually oblivious of their surroundings
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I completely agree, I guess most of us have had someone step out in the road, in front of us while they are on the phone, at one time or another.

And of course if the driver of the car is also being distracted by their phone .....

The worse case scenario, its the young mums that use the push chair almost like a battering ram, to get priority over the traffic, while on the phone.
Doesn't bare thinking about really does it? :(
 
I must say I'm a bit confused about the law. I thought the offence was based on touching your phone while driving/having the engine running. However it seems illegal to use a "hands free" system too as the rule is "It’s illegal to use a hand-held phone or similar device while driving" rather than holding or touching the phone. In that case I break the law when I very occasionally use the phone for satnav despite the fact I am not touching or looking at the phone, only listening to directions!
 
sphexx said:
In that case I break the law when I very occasionally use the phone for satnav despite the fact I am not touching or looking at the phone, only listening to directions!
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Only if you had the phone actually in your hand otherwise it makes the thing about cradled devices a nonsense really. i.e. if it was say on the passenger seat and you were only listening to it, you'd be fine.

EDIT. I should probably add, this is just my take on it and not legal advice!
 
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Heres another one, if Im in a stationery line of traffic and my engine stop start has kicked in and the engine is off, could I then pick up my phone and use it so long as it was out of my hand again before the engine restarted when I moved off? Again I wouldnt risk it but its not posing anyone a threat then is it.
 
DorsetDude said:
Only if you had the phone actually in your hand otherwise it makes the thing about cradled devices a nonsense really. i.e. if it was say on the passenger seat and you were only listening to it, you'd be fine.
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That's what I do. But the gov uk website quoted above doesn't mention touching, it refers to a "hand-held phone" which seems to me to be a way of defining what we usually call a "mobile phone". If they meant to refer to touching they would have written "hand held phone" , i.e. without the hyphen.
 
DorsetDude said:
if Im in a stationery line of traffic and my engine stop start has kicked in and the engine is off,
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I'm guessing that the stop / start function hadn't been taken into account, I also guess "They" would still get you for it, it is nonetheless Interesting scenario, I await that one to be tested in court.
 
You are in the car so don't use the phone, is it really that hard to understand

We managed alright before they were invented, you can't do much anyway if you are travelling
 
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tijuana taxi said:
You are in the car so don't use the phone, is it really that hard to understand

We managed alright before they were invented, you can't do much anyway if you are travelling
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Not quite that harsh. :D
I regularly take the old girl opposite to her Dr appointment, and can be parked up, in a bay for the best part of an hour. ;)
 
DorsetDude said:
Heres another one, if Im in a stationery line of traffic and my engine stop start has kicked in and the engine is off, could I then pick up my phone and use it so long as it was out of my hand again before the engine restarted when I moved off? Again I wouldnt risk it but its not posing anyone a threat then is it.
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That would still constitute driving, you would need to park out of the running lanes and switch off, handbrake on, to not be considered driving.
 
sphexx said:
That's what I do. But the gov uk website quoted above doesn't mention touching, it refers to a "hand-held phone" which seems to me to be a way of defining what we usually call a "mobile phone". If they meant to refer to touching they would have written "hand held phone" , i.e. without the hyphen.
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This is the definition of holding:

(6) For the purposes of this regulation—

(a)a mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function;
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This is the definition of interactive communication:

“interactive communication function” includes the following:

(i)sending or receiving oral or written messages;

(ii)sending or receiving facsimile documents;

(iii)sending or receiving still or moving images; and

(iv)providing access to the internet;
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http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/regulation/2/made?view=plain
 
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sphexx said:
Thanks for that Dave. The gov uk page I found shows the danger of quoting a sentence out of context. If they are going to give out advice for idiots it would be best if they re-wrote it.
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I've seen similar criticism of the .gov site previously when it comes to motoring laws, some have even suggested it's written badly just to sow a little extra confusion amongst drivers ;).
 
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