Mixing Nikon CLS strobes with NON CLS strobes

seventythree

seventythree

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Allan
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Hi,
i've recently invested in a hilite BG and one extra SB600 which now totals 2. I'm not too keen on buying more SB600's as they aint cheap. Is there a way to add non CLS compatible flashes along with say FITP's ones? do i need to go full manual flash with radio triggers or something :shrug:

cheers, Al
 
Alan , as long as they have optical slaves that would do for a start. I think the ones that Flash sells has a pre flash cancel setting which would be useful when using cls on the sb600's ... I think:thinking::thinking:
 
The SB-600 doesn't work as an optical slave, and mixing optical slaves wouldn't work with the CLS system.

Basically, you'd have to either buy more SB-600s (they're half the price of the SB-900, so that is fairly cheap), or pick up a couple of SU-4 or generic optical slave triggers on eBay to turn them into optical slave flashes.

Alternatively, speak to FITP and order some of his RF602 trigger & receivers. I just ordered a trigger and 3 receivers, and they work find with SB-600 & SB-900 flashes, and it means you'll be able to mix things up.
 
Em, what I meant was .... Al could fire the flash's with optical slaves into the hilite and use the sb600's on cls settings on the subject.

Hence the pre flash cancel....
 
Interesting. I didn't realise they ignored the pre-flashes and just fired with the main flash. I might have to get myself a couple of those.
 
alpina said:
Alan , as long as they have optical slaves that would do for a start. I think the ones that Flash sells has a pre flash cancel setting which would be useful when using cls on the sb600's ... I think:thinking::thinking:
Click to expand...

Andy, i'm blaming you for this :lol:

Kaouthia said:
The SB-600 doesn't work as an optical slave, and mixing optical slaves wouldn't work with the CLS system.

Basically, you'd have to either buy more SB-600s (they're half the price of the SB-900, so that is fairly cheap), or pick up a couple of SU-4 or generic optical slave triggers on eBay to turn them into optical slave flashes.

Alternatively, speak to FITP and order some of his RF602 trigger & receivers. I just ordered a trigger and 3 receivers, and they work find with SB-600 & SB-900 flashes, and it means you'll be able to mix things up.
Click to expand...

John, again thanks, you're never far away with a sensible answer, unfortunately it involves spending money!

i've weighed up FITP vs Nikon:

FITP:
2x yn 460 II
1x rf602 trig, rec
3 extra recievers

all in looks like £161

Nikon:

last sb600 i bought was from digigood on ebay. 144 all in for a factory refurbished unit and 90 day nikon warranty. cant fault it so far, but for my budget i cant stretch to two more sb600's ! or would one do me ?

is it a no brainer?
 
alpina said:
Em, what I meant was .... Al could fire the flash's with optical slaves into the hilite and use the sb600's on cls settings on the subject.

Hence the pre flash cancel....
Click to expand...

The plot thickens, however i'm not quite sure of the meaning of optical slaves?

if i read correctly then the YN 460's will just trigger when they see the sb600's firing ?

Al
 
seventythree said:
The plot thickens, however i'm not quite sure of the meaning of optical slaves?

if i read correctly then the YN 460's will just trigger when they see the sb600's firing ?

Al
Click to expand...

Aye.. spot on. Pm Flash, he will keep you right mate.

Mind you if buy the triggers then you are sorted. I managed to get an sb24 for £50.. on ebay last night.
 
alpina said:
Aye.. spot on. Pm Flash, he will keep you right mate.

Mind you if buy the triggers then you are sorted. I managed to get an sb24 for £50.. on ebay last night.
Click to expand...

cheers Andy sound like its worth getting two 460's and giving them a shot, failing that i just buy the triggers

Kaouthia said:
That feature is positively outstanding on a flash that only costs 38 quid. Wow.
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agreed !!
 
Mr Mike said:
lol @ you Al

Last time i visited you got the brolley out which you never really used and had a little amount of pics to show using it and here you are now with what is about to be 4 flashes and a hilite BG

I will have to come out for a look i thinks
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:$ yeh, i've learn in the past that making do just doesn't cut it. i know for a fact that if i got something naff i would then go and buy the right stuff. I'm taking evasive action and going route 1 to save some money.

questions are being asked from SWMBO and believe it or not i got the highlight for £40 ;) going to have to slip the two 460's in under the radar though!

its not stuff i'll be using all the time, so you are more than welcome to borrow it :)

Al
 
seventythree said:
:$ yeh, i've learn in the past that making do just doesn't cut it. i know for a fact that if i got something naff i would then go and buy the right stuff. I'm taking evasive action and going route 1 to save some money.

questions are being asked from SWMBO and believe it or not i got the highlight for £40 ;) going to have to slip the two 460's in under the radar though!

its not stuff i'll be using all the time, so you are more than welcome to borrow it :)

Al
Click to expand...

Shhhh I told my other half I sold it for £20.00:thumbs:
 
well, two yn 460 II's recieved this morning and set everything up tonight.

hilite had the two yn 460's sitting on the floor inside the hilite looking up and to the back. set to optical slave and +3.

sb600 left and right on subject on light stands, 33" shoot through brollies on each . both on their own channels which allowed a tweak left or right depending on the poses.

staggered by the results. its very easy to get an ok shot, but its going to take a lot of practice and playing with the strobes to get excellent shots.

i've got zips and wundaweb ready to fit to the sides of the hilite because i need to use it on its side, i also need two more konig light stands to poke the slave strobes in through the sides.

totally brilliant, thanks Andy and John for the help.

Al
 
No problem, look forward to seeing the results :)
 
Kaouthia said:
No problem, look forward to seeing the results :)
Click to expand...

My better half was the subject, and although after a bit of twiddling in CS4 has worked wonders, she's still not keen on me posting the results.

going to get the kids roped in on sunday.
 
rofl
 
Well, my two YN460-IIs just got here and I just did some quick tests, and they're great little units for the cost.

Manual power, obviously, but managed to work as optical slaves when using an SB-900 in commander mode on the camera, another SB-900 in group A, and another SB-900 in group B (both set to TTL).

It didn't seem to work if I was only using a commander though, with itself as a TTL flash, only when I used off-camera CLS flashes in TTL mode. In manual mode using CLS, I imagine it'll just use regular optical slave mode, but I didn't test yet.

YN460-II also works flawlessly with the SB-900 & SB-600 flashes with all three on the RF-602 receivers fired from the transmitter on the camera or popping the button manually.

You're right Mike, lighting is certainly a learning curve, and the best advice I ever saw with multi light setups (when shooting digital) is to add one light at a time, and take a shot as you add each light, and get it in the right spot before you add another (or reflectors, or whatever).

Setting them all up at once, then adding your subject and then trying to adjust is a pain in the arse, because it can get difficult to tell which flash is bouncing off what and adding the light just where you don't want it. :)
 
Mr Mike said:
certainly made me laugh :lol:

Sounds fun but i can see the learning curve being steep as just a single sb600, a brolley and 1 reflector has me messing around enough :thinking:
Click to expand...

the yn 460's in the hilite certainly didn't need any tweaking and the two sb600's in ttl right and left needed no adjustment, but i just had Donna in the centre of the frame square on and the results were not that bad, looking at a few of the shots on the PC a tweak up and down here and there would have improved things immensely.

Kaouthia said:
Well, my two YN460-IIs just got here and I just did some quick tests, and they're great little units for the cost.

Manual power, obviously, but managed to work as optical slaves when using an SB-900 in commander mode on the camera, another SB-900 in group A, and another SB-900 in group B (both set to TTL).

It didn't seem to work if I was only using a commander though, with itself as a TTL flash, only when I used off-camera CLS flashes in TTL mode. In manual mode using CLS, I imagine it'll just use regular optical slave mode, but I didn't test yet.

YN460-II also works flawlessly with the SB-900 & SB-600 flashes with all three on the RF-602 receivers fired from the transmitter on the camera or popping the button manually.

You're right Mike, lighting is certainly a learning curve, and the best advice I ever saw with multi light setups (when shooting digital) is to add one light at a time, and take a shot as you add each light, and get it in the right spot before you add another (or reflectors, or whatever).

Setting them all up at once, then adding your subject and then trying to adjust is a pain in the arse, because it can get difficult to tell which flash is bouncing off what and adding the light just where you don't want it. :)
Click to expand...

do have the yn 460's set to s2 ? with my onboard set to -- (i assume this is commander mode) it triggers them no problem. they are impressive for the money, and the build quality is surprisingly good.
 
Yup, set to S2.

It goes off fine with the commander set to -- as long as I have remote flashes in other groups set to TTL. :)

What I was testing that didn't seem to work is having an SB-900 commander on the system in TTL mode, and NO other CLS flashes (Group A, B and C all set to --). Even though it sent out the TTL pre-flashes, then the main flash, it didn't trigger them.
 
Kaouthia said:
Yup, set to S2.

It goes off fine with the commander set to -- as long as I have remote flashes in other groups set to TTL. :)

What I was testing that didn't seem to work is having an SB-900 commander on the system in TTL mode, and NO other CLS flashes (Group A, B and C all set to --). Even though it sent out the TTL pre-flashes, then the main flash, it didn't trigger them.
Click to expand...

aah i see. well if i have group A and B set up as TTL and the onboard set to commander , but the TTL strobes are OFF and out of the equation i can still trigger the YN460's.; I also tried setting every channel to -- as well as the onboard , and nothing happened, but i assumed that if the onboard commander has nothing to command, then it doesnt need to fire anything?
 
Yup, if it's set to command nothing, it does nothing.

If I can get some time tonight or tomorrow I'll start having a good test with these, and I'll post up my findings on the blog.
 
I found it very hard to trigger a pair of yn460 in slave mode from an sb600 (in a softbox though). Just about to order a radio reciever for one of the yn460's. One triggered from an rf unit should fire the other in optical slave mode...
 
Were they YN460 or YN460-IIs? because the optical slave sensor in the original YN460 was in a really really bad position. In the YN460-II it's been put in the base of the flash, so you can rotate the head to your subject, and point the sensor towards your other flashes.
 
my 460 II's trigger inside the hilite completely and the sb600's through a brolly, the onboard in commander mode even manages fine.
 
Strange. I originally had the YN460-II inside the hi-light with the red sensors facing forward (towards its front) in S1 mode. The SB-600 wouldnt fire them when inside the softbox but the room was very bright (natural light). I then placed the 460's horizontal so the sensors was on the out side of the hilight still no joy. They fire fine when the sb600 is outside of the softbox.

James
 
Brownjl is the SB-600 in manual mode? It'll only fire the YN460-IIs set to S1 if it's at a manual power settings and not using iTTL.
 
Hi Kaouthia,

Yes my SB600 is in manual mode and teh 460's are set to S1. They fire fine when the SB600 is outside the softbox but not when inside. Feels like my 460's are just overly sensitive.

James
 
Kaouthia said:
Brownjl is the SB-600 in manual mode? It'll only fire the YN460-IIs set to S1 if it's at a manual power settings and not using iTTL.
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brownjl said:
Hi Kaouthia,

Yes my SB600 is in manual mode and teh 460's are set to S1. They fire fine when the SB600 is outside the softbox but not when inside. Feels like my 460's are just overly sensitive.

James
Click to expand...

i have been using mine on s2 which is pre flash cancel, as advised by Alpina earlier in the thread. This way they are a direct optical slave.

AFAIK on S1 the yn 460's are looking for a pre flash/ttl info prior to firing off. could be wrong though.:shrug:

Al
 
Apologies if this is a dumb question but can these flashes be assigned a group and be controlled power wise from in camera?

Cheers.
 
Nope, they can't. If they're set into S2 mode, they will be triggered by any camera that goes off using TTL pre-flashes. I'm taking mine to a group shoot next Sunday with a dozen other photographers. I'm glad I bought RF-602s :)
 
Kaouthia said:
Nope, they can't. If they're set into S2 mode, they will be triggered by any camera that goes off using TTL pre-flashes. I'm taking mine to a group shoot next Sunday with a dozen other photographers. I'm glad I bought RF-602s :)
Click to expand...

John, i'm a little confused. afaik S1 is TTL pre flash triggered and S2 is pre flash cancel which is just triggered by any flash going off. do i have the wrong end of the stick?
 
seventythree said:
John, i'm a little confused. afaik S1 is TTL pre flash triggered and S2 is pre flash cancel which is just triggered by any flash going off. do i have the wrong end of the stick?
Click to expand...

ok, i've answered my own question.

from this blog: http://lightdescription.blogspot.com/2010/02/yongnuo-speedlite-yn460-ii.html

I was impressed. With my 7D, the YN460-II also worked in both S1 and S2 modes when the 7D was set for ETTL; however, at 1/200 second and faster, S2 is necessary. In a dimly lit room, triggering is easily possible at a distance of some 20 feet. The obvious conclusion is to use S1 for pure manual flash and S2 for triggering with ETTL -- as advertised.
Click to expand...
 
seventythree said:
John, i'm a little confused. afaik S1 is TTL pre flash triggered and S2 is pre flash cancel which is just triggered by any flash going off. do i have the wrong end of the stick?
Click to expand...

S1 == normal regular plain old optical slave mode
S2 == the one that gets triggered at the right time and ignores TTL preflashes :)
 
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