Mirrorless Options

HoppyUK said:
I know the feeling. That's the kind of outfit to take on a dedicated photo trip, not out with the family. It's not just the size/weight, it's also the number of items and how you carry them all. My solution is a 24-105L on 5D2, hanging from a Black Rapid sling-strap. There's not much you can't have a good go at there, and you hardly know it's there.

If you've never tried a sling strap, you'll be amazed at the difference it makes (y)
Click to expand...

Yep, something similar for me too, D750 and 24-120f4 on a black rapid for me too, I added a spring clip to the fastener end of the strap and can clip it to the belt loop on my jeans so the camera doesn't swing about so I can easily lift our 1 year old or run after the 2 and 1/2 year old.
 
Don't forget the APS-C Sony A6000 as there seems to be some good deals as the new A6300 is grabbing the attention. There have been and are A6000's for sale at good prices in the for sale section on this forum and if I didn't already have too much gear I'd buy one :D

You could also look at the Panasonic GX7 and G7 as there are sone good deals on those two.

You asked earlier if MFT can get close to Fuji and I assume by that you mean image quality. My opinion is that MFT does get close and if your shots are going to be mostly taken in good or ok light I'd say you shouldn't worry too about any small differences between any of these systems.

PS.
My newer MFT cameras give image quality which is very probably better than I got from my Canon 5D even at the higher ISO's so I don't think that image quality is much of a worry with any of these mirrorless cameras and the lenses tend to be good at wider apertures too and that often wasn't the case with DSLR lenses.
 
Last edited:
jonnybloo said:
Ha ha maybe! I enjoy taking photos. I used to have time. Kids limit that. Though I do enjoy time with my kids more, usually :)

The kit I have now gets less use. I'm possibly convincing myself smaller kit fits my lifestyle and gets more use. The days of me spending selfishly are gone. Any purchases are done through selling other kit. So it has to be right!

Just to clarify, I don't ever take all my kit out, usually just one lens ie 50mm but even that (on a strap to) is a bit too cumbersome. Plus I need something wider. Something that gets photos of the family plus cities/travel. A wide pancake for the canon would do!
Click to expand...

Another good option is the a6000 and 1650 power zoom.
 
Smaller kits get used more.
bigger kits get left at home.
 
jonnybloo said:
Ha ha maybe! I enjoy taking photos. I used to have time. Kids limit that. Though I do enjoy time with my kids more, usually :)

The kit I have now gets less use. I'm possibly convincing myself smaller kit fits my lifestyle and gets more use. The days of me spending selfishly are gone. Any purchases are done through selling other kit. So it has to be right!

Just to clarify, I don't ever take all my kit out, usually just one lens ie 50mm but even that (on a strap to) is a bit too cumbersome. Plus I need something wider. Something that gets photos of the family plus cities/travel. A wide pancake for the canon would do!
Click to expand...

Before my daughter came along 6 years ago, my DSLR went everywhere. But things change when you become a parent - you've more to carry and your attention isn't on photographing what's around you. My compact wasn't up to the job as the AF was hopeless so I experimented with various cameras until I settled on the XT10 last year. Just spent last week with it in Disneyland Paris and even with it and 3 primes in a small bag it didn't weigh enough to become an inconvenience at any point.
 
martsharm said:
I'll talk about what I like, thanks all the same. It's a fact m43 offers a more compact portrait option than Fuji. That is all.

Let's get back to the thread.
Click to expand...

Lol. Sure it does.... when it's not equivalent and youre only looking at FL.

Agreed.
 
Last edited:
I'm yet another one who moved from Nikon to Fuji. I bought a X-E1 + 18-55 and 55-200 zooms in February/March 2014 as a lighter "carry around" system to my D700, 28-105 f3.5-4.5 and 80-200 f2.8 A-fS outfit. In January 2015 I bought a X-T1 and all of the Nikon stuff was sold by the April.
 
jonnybloo said:
Ha ha maybe! I enjoy taking photos. I used to have time. Kids limit that. Though I do enjoy time with my kids more, usually :)

The kit I have now gets less use. I'm possibly convincing myself smaller kit fits my lifestyle and gets more use. The days of me spending selfishly are gone. Any purchases are done through selling other kit. So it has to be right!

Just to clarify, I don't ever take all my kit out, usually just one lens ie 50mm but even that (on a strap to) is a bit too cumbersome. Plus I need something wider. Something that gets photos of the family plus cities/travel. A wide pancake for the canon would do!
Click to expand...

But you have a 40mm pancake? You can't beat a standard range zoom for walkabout IMHO, but 40/2.8 on a 6D sounds sweet to me - on a sling strap. Get one for a fiver on Amazon/Ebay and give it a go. Those cheapy Black Rapid clones are amazing value. I bought the double version just to see if it was any good and while its not as robust as my Black Rapid single, with a bit of extra stitching it's fine.

If you like it, then trade up to something better. There are loads available now, some with a cinch adjuster so you can tighten it up instantly and stop it swinging around when you pick up the little ones ;)
 
May be a good idea to hold out for the Panasonic cashback, the GX7 is a ridiculous bargain when its included. Something silly like £250.

Also, if video is a priority avoid Fuji, there are better options.
 
Last edited:
viewfromthenorth said:
Before my daughter came along 6 years ago, my DSLR went everywhere. But things change when you become a parent - you've more to carry and your attention isn't on photographing what's around you. My compact wasn't up to the job as the AF was hopeless so I experimented with various cameras until I settled on the XT10 last year. Just spent last week with it in Disneyland Paris and even with it and 3 primes in a small bag it didn't weigh enough to become an inconvenience at any point.
Click to expand...

Ah we was at DLP last week too, the Canon made it out for one day, it wasnt much use in the torrential rain and lightning !!
 
twist said:
May be a good idea to hold out for the Panasonic cashback, the GX7 is a ridiculous bargain when its included. Something silly like £250.

Also, if video is a priority avoid Fuji, there are better options.
Click to expand...

Is the cashback offer frequent? video is a nice to but not essential by any means
 
jonnybloo said:
Is the cashback offer frequent? video is a nice to but not essential by any means
Click to expand...

Yeah, very frequent. Pretty much every season. Most manufacturers do them. If you decide on Fuji also consider the 18-55 f2.8 - 4 its obviously bigger than a prime but quality is excellent and means not having to buy/carry to many lenses.

http://panamoz.com/index.php/digita...gital-camera-body-only-black-silver-1855.html

http://camerasize.com/compact/#620.359,380.367,ha,t

Otherwise the small Fuji primes are 18 f2 (27) / 27 2.8 (40) / 35 f2 (50) and apparently a 23mm f2 (35) soon.

Ive owned all the systems, each has something unique to offer.
 
Last edited:
jonnybloo said:
Hi, I’ve had a good read and research, but I’m looking for an opinion with regards to my circumstances.

I currently have a Canon 6d, 50mm sigma, 70-200 canon, 40mm pancake, 105mm macro. Its took me a while to get to this point and I love the camera. Since having 2 little kids I’ve found that whenever we travel or go out, I don’t take it. I have enough to do carrying the kids and the paraphernalia that comes with them :) Occasionally I will just take the body+40mm just for discretion and to see if I can sneak it into the wife’s bag without her knowing :)

It would be nice to have a smaller more travel friendly setup, but with good image quality and practical.

Therefore I started looking at some of the mirrorless options, it seems a minefield. I’m not looking at selling all my gear, maybe a lens or 2 to finance it. So the top end/latest are ruled out. For arguments sake let’s say under £1000 (but probably more £600 !)

Here’s what I’m looking for:

  1. Body + at least one excellent quality lens equiv to about 30/35mm

  2. Image Quality and AF as priority

  3. Reasonable choice and second hand market with lenses

  4. Compact and light enough to travel

  5. Long term I may replace the canon setup completely I would need to make sure I’m happy with image quality etc first though, so for now it’s to run alongside as a light option

I’ve looked at a few options but I’m probably clouding the issue. I appreciate I may be being a bit presumptuous and I have no idea how these mirrorless options fair in terms of image quality and sharpness compared to the 6D? how the m43 compares against the larger Fuji etc

Panasonic GX8 looks very nice and seems to tick the boxes albeit on the expensive side. Am I right in thinking all Olympus / Pana lenses work on these?

Olympus EM-10 As above – smaller and lighter, but 16MP compared to 20mp

Fuji – XE2 seems to be well liked after recent firmware updates, would that hold up in terms of the image against the 2 above ? Is the XT-10 a better option? The fuji’s look stunning cameras but is the lens market limited and expensive? Ie the 23mm seems to be the lens of choice but costs a fair whack too

Basically, for a self-confessed pixel peeper, can I get a compact, light, travel friendly setup that would still produce excellent detail and focus quickly? :)

Thanks


Jon
Click to expand...
Unlike you I you, sold my canon gear 5D3, 7D and all my L glass, I bought the Fuji X Pro 1 , then XT-1, sold the XP1 and bought the X Pro 2. In between I also bought the X100T, to be honest I use the X100T more than any other, it's perfect. Small, light, fantastic lens, quality photos. I can't recommend it highly enough.
 
Last edited:
I've gone from Canon 7D to Fuji XT1 then onto a D750. The EVF on mirrorless is awesome. Ideally I'd run two systems but I'm too poor!
 
I would say to keep your current selection and buy a smaller device such as lumix lx100 or sony rx100. So you get a pocket camera that takes really good snaps and that is really a take everywhere kind of camera and when you want better you can take your dslr which you know you do like.

A year or two ago I bought the Fuji XT1 and it was great, it was smaller but at the end of the day, it is still a cumbersome interchangeable lens system to carry, some of the lens are still pretty big specially if you want a bit of reach (55-200) or a faster zoom lens (16-55). Then I find the EVF can be a plus in some circumstance but other times such as really bright days it is not very good to use. So i went back to dslr but added a pocketable camera to the mix (and a baby too!).
 
jonnybloo said:
  1. Body + at least one excellent quality lens equiv to about 30/35mm

  2. Image Quality and AF as priority
Click to expand...
I've just gone the other way and bought a D750.

What do you photograph? The only mirrorless cameras I've used are Olympus (EM5 and EM1) and Sony (A7II) but the continuous autofocus tracking is way below what my new D750 can manage. The EM1 is better than the EM5; the A7II is about the same as the EM1.

Olympus seem to try to mitigate the issue by making single-shot AF lightning fast.

Given that you're on a limited budget, take a look at the Mk 1 EM5 second hand; they're ridiculously good value now and image quality is hard to fault.

However.. if you put a quality zoom e.g. the f2.8 12-40 on it then you'll probably want a grip - and then you're back where you started.
 
Last edited:
On a side note and also kind of in theme with this thread it always amazes me how much when children come along things change.
People with no kids would have no issues popping a small compact in there pocket for holidays or take the biggun and bag of tricks.

But put children in the mix and its become I need the highest IQ possible for holiday with lightning fast AF and did I mention the highest quality imaginable.
I
 
Apologies if the answer is somewhere easy to find, but i'm looking at a new camera and would much prefer the lighter m43 to something like say the 80d or the d7200 but i do enjoy a bit of lightroom action, is there any m43rds that come close to say the 80d with regards to dynamic range?
 
Picsandstuff said:
Apologies if the answer is somewhere easy to find, but i'm looking at a new camera and would much prefer the lighter m43 to something like say the 80d or the d7200 but i do enjoy a bit of lightroom action, is there any m43rds that come close to say the 80d with regards to dynamic range?
Click to expand...

Check DXO for comparisons.
 
Picsandstuff said:
Apologies if the answer is somewhere easy to find, but i'm looking at a new camera and would much prefer the lighter m43 to something like say the 80d or the d7200 but i do enjoy a bit of lightroom action, is there any m43rds that come close to say the 80d with regards to dynamic range?
Click to expand...

Dynamic range is one reason I moved from m4/3 to a D750.
 
Picsandstuff said:
Apologies if the answer is somewhere easy to find, but i'm looking at a new camera and would much prefer the lighter m43 to something like say the 80d or the d7200 but i do enjoy a bit of lightroom action, is there any m43rds that come close to say the 80d with regards to dynamic range?
Click to expand...

twist said:
Check DXO for comparisons.
Click to expand...

Here's a 6D vs an EM5 mark II - not a lot in it as far as dynamic range and colour depth go, Full Frame will always be better in low light.

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Comp...D-E-M5-Mark-II-versus-Canon-EOS-6D___1006_836
 
Thanks, will have a look around dxo.
Snapsort has gh4 @12.8 gx8@12.6 and em1@12.7 ev

Which leaves me jealous of the dr on the likes of jugglers d750
 
Thanks sirch. Very interesting on em5 2 v 6d.
Will definitely have a look around dxo later on.
Thanks.
 
juggler said:
I've just gone the other way and bought a D750.

What do you photograph? The only mirrorless cameras I've used are Olympus (EM5 and EM1) and Sony (A7II) but the continuous autofocus tracking is way below what my new D750 can manage. The EM1 is better than the EM5; the A7II is about the same as the EM1.
.
Click to expand...

At the moment, a mix but my kit isnt seeing anywhere near the use it was. Family photos, Macro for a bit of fun, we try and get away with the kids as much as possible so typical travel stuff. No sports, just fast moving kids. My 6d isnt renowned for AF but copes well enough for what i use. HDEW have great prices on the EM5 & 10 at the moment, though from what ive read the EM10mki is probably fine over the MkII anyway.

Hoping to get to a shop today to hold some of the Olympus and Fujis

I gather the Fujis are all similar (for my budget) and firmware has resolved issues seen previously. There are 2nd hand XCPro1 knocking about for £200. I assume thats a good choice, invest in the glass rather than body.

Mr Bump said:
On a side note and also kind of in theme with this thread it always amazes me how much when children come along things change.
People with no kids would have no issues popping a small compact in there pocket for holidays or take the biggun and bag of tricks.
But put children in the mix and its become I need the highest IQ possible for holiday with lightning fast AF and did I mention the highest quality imaginable.
I
Click to expand...

I know what you mean. Im not sure it fits me completely but i agree when children come along things change! in every sense. I think the wishlist i have ie everything you said! is more down to the fact ive spent years building a decent setup with the 6D. My interest in photography only really got off the mark when i settled down, started earning a little extra, was in a position where we spent on ourselves etc, then kids come along and you adjust in every way. I invested more and had more interest as all of a sudden your at home more, and have hours to kill looking at your own little mini me, something to amaze yourself with, you want to capture every moment (well for child one anyway :) ). By that point im spoilt with amazing technology, and in this case i want to compromise as little as possible and just make that tech smaller and more convenient so it fits in a bag with juice cups, boxes of raisins, spare nappies and a change of clothes :)
 
jonnybloo said:
At the moment, a mix but my kit isnt seeing anywhere near the use it was. Family photos, Macro for a bit of fun, we try and get away with the kids as much as possible so typical travel stuff. No sports, just fast moving kids. My 6d isnt renowned for AF but copes well enough for what i use. HDEW have great prices on the EM5 & 10 at the moment, though from what ive read the EM10mki is probably fine over the MkII anyway.

Hoping to get to a shop today to hold some of the Olympus and Fujis

I gather the Fujis are all similar (for my budget) and firmware has resolved issues seen previously. There are 2nd hand XCPro1 knocking about for £200. I assume thats a good choice, invest in the glass rather than body.



I know what you mean. Im not sure it fits me completely but i agree when children come along things change! in every sense. I think the wishlist i have ie everything you said! is more down to the fact ive spent years building a decent setup with the 6D. My interest in photography only really got off the mark when i settled down, started earning a little extra, was in a position where we spent on ourselves etc, then kids come along and you adjust in every way. I invested more and had more interest as all of a sudden your at home more, and have hours to kill looking at your own little mini me, something to amaze yourself with, you want to capture every moment (well for child one anyway :) ). By that point im spoilt with amazing technology, and in this case i want to compromise as little as possible and just make that tech smaller and more convenient so it fits in a bag with juice cups, boxes of raisins, spare nappies and a change of clothes :)
Click to expand...

The older Fujis are much slower, look for an XE2, XE2s or XT1.
 
Some really useful info in this thread. I've been toying with the idea of replacing my D300 with something mirrorless for travel purposes and have always been keen on the EM5/II with a couple of primes (maybe the 17mm f1.8 and 12mm f2 or the 9-18mm) so I can fit it all in one small bag with a compact tripod too. Its mostly landscape stuff that I shoot.

Not driving means I go everywhere on public transport so small and light is ideal!
 
I think back to my Canon 5D which at the time was the bees knees and I didn't think I'd ever want a better camera but these days the newer CSC will all equal and probably better the 5D (and even my 1st generation Panasonic G1 beat the 5D in some ways) and by the way far surpass anything I ever got from 35mm film.

To complain seems... wrong... :D
 
twist said:
The older Fujis are much slower, look for an XE2, XE2s or XT1.
Click to expand...

Thanks, is that even after the firmware updates?
I’ve had chance to hold a few of these now. The EM10 felt a little too small and would need the grip I think. The EM5 II had a nicer feel albeit a larger price :)

I actually quite liked the GX8 too, not sure if it’s nice looking or ugly but I liked it. Very Solid! Viewfinder seemed a bit more usable as a glasses wearer. AF rapid. Ive nt seen much feedback on the GX cameras though compared to Fuji/Olympus

They didn’t have much range of Fuji. The Pen-F – very nice but out of budget. The XT1 again very nice and probably out of budget. No XE-2 so im not sure if that has the same solid feel.

AF on the Olympus and Panasonic was nice and responsive. In terms of image quality I don’t have a clue, from what I’ve read and the feedback I’ve had here the Fuji is the leader in image quality especially in low light. I will look at more samples.

So not sure how further on I am……..

What I would say is thanks though to all the opinions, some really useful info and i feel like I’ve had a crash course on mirrorless cameras. Appreciate it.
 
jonnybloo said:
Thanks, is that even after the firmware updates?
I’ve had chance to hold a few of these now. The EM10 felt a little too small and would need the grip I think. The EM5 II had a nicer feel albeit a larger price :)

I actually quite liked the GX8 too, not sure if it’s nice looking or ugly but I liked it. Very Solid! Viewfinder seemed a bit more usable as a glasses wearer. AF rapid. Ive nt seen much feedback on the GX cameras though compared to Fuji/Olympus

They didn’t have much range of Fuji. The Pen-F – very nice but out of budget. The XT1 again very nice and probably out of budget. No XE-2 so im not sure if that has the same solid feel.

AF on the Olympus and Panasonic was nice and responsive. In terms of image quality I don’t have a clue, from what I’ve read and the feedback I’ve had here the Fuji is the leader in image quality especially in low light. I will look at more samples.

So not sure how further on I am……..

What I would say is thanks though to all the opinions, some really useful info and i feel like I’ve had a crash course on mirrorless cameras. Appreciate it.
Click to expand...

On image quality... for me the EM5 Mk 1 is just usable at ISO 1600 or maybe 3200 with careful processing. The images can stand rather less abuse in photoshop than my D750 - but it's still no slouch. I'd point you at all but the most recent stuff on my own flickr feed but much of that is flash-lit studio stuff so not really of relevance.
 
jonnybloo said:
Thanks, is that even after the firmware updates?
I’ve had chance to hold a few of these now. The EM10 felt a little too small and would need the grip I think. The EM5 II had a nicer feel albeit a larger price :)

I actually quite liked the GX8 too, not sure if it’s nice looking or ugly but I liked it. Very Solid! Viewfinder seemed a bit more usable as a glasses wearer. AF rapid. Ive nt seen much feedback on the GX cameras though compared to Fuji/Olympus

They didn’t have much range of Fuji. The Pen-F – very nice but out of budget. The XT1 again very nice and probably out of budget. No XE-2 so im not sure if that has the same solid feel.

AF on the Olympus and Panasonic was nice and responsive. In terms of image quality I don’t have a clue, from what I’ve read and the feedback I’ve had here the Fuji is the leader in image quality especially in low light. I will look at more samples.

So not sure how further on I am……..

What I would say is thanks though to all the opinions, some really useful info and i feel like I’ve had a crash course on mirrorless cameras. Appreciate it.
Click to expand...

Yes. The older models are pretty slow. You could look at used... I sold an as new xt1 body for 450 recently. Used will save you a lot of money with any of those cameras.
 
Ok just to update. I've looked at a lot of sources and looked at a lot of examples and listened to the advice here.

I've swayed to fuji because ultimately IQ is one of the biggest reasons. I may be being naive, so many contradictory posts on which system is best.

However it has to make sense financially. It seems the 2nd hand market is fairly scarce in what I want, an XE-2.

£299 realistically. Or £244 at wex for a condition 8. Hardly anything on ebay.

I'm guessing I need to be patient now but im continually swayed with olympus em10 brand new at 375. Or the gx7 good condition and used at 200.

There is an xt10 at 400ish or 640 with 18-55 lens.

Realistically what is an xe-2 worth? Or would I actually notice any difference in IQ if I went em10 / gx7 ? Considering both seem much better value.
 
jonnybloo said:
Ok just to update. I've looked at a lot of sources and looked at a lot of examples and listened to the advice here.

I've swayed to fuji because ultimately IQ is one of the biggest reasons. I may be being naive, so many contradictory posts on which system is best.

However it has to make sense financially. It seems the 2nd hand market is fairly scarce in what I want, an XE-2.

£299 realistically. Or £244 at wex for a condition 8. Hardly anything on ebay.

I'm guessing I need to be patient now but im continually swayed with olympus em10 brand new at 375. Or the gx7 good condition and used at 200.

There is an xt10 at 400ish or 640 with 18-55 lens.

Realistically what is an xe-2 worth? Or would I actually notice any difference in IQ if I went em10 / gx7 ? Considering both seem much better value.
Click to expand...

I have a GX7 and with a nice prime mounted the quality you can get out of it is good and you can pick up the bodies and the lenses for reasonable money. I bought my GX7 new but I bought most of my lenses used, they tend to crop up all the time. However, if looking today I'd go for a Sony A6000. It's smaller than an XE2, it's APS-C and arguably gives better image quality than the Fuji's and there are bargains about at the moment as the A6300 is out.

I think it might help you decide what you want if you download some raws to process on your own pc or ask owners here to send you some. After looking at the image quality you can get from these cameras you may decide there's nothing in it and if that's the case you might end up just going for the best bargain :D
 
woof woof said:
I have a GX7 and with a nice prime mounted the quality you can get out of it is good and you can pick up the bodies and the lenses for reasonable money. I bought my GX7 new but I bought most of my lenses used, they tend to crop up all the time. However, if looking today I'd go for a Sony A6000. It's smaller than an XE2, it's APS-C and arguably gives better image quality than the Fuji's and there are bargains about at the moment as the A6300 is out.

I think it might help you decide what you want if you download some raws to process on your own pc or ask owners here to send you some. After looking at the image quality you can get from these cameras you may decide there's nothing in it and if that's the case you might end up just going for the best bargain :D
Click to expand...

Yup good idea, I will dig out raw files today just to get an idea. Appreciate the recommendation considering you have the gx7 too. Sony have some cracking cameras especially at the top end. The a6000 looks good, I need to do a little comparison of lenses to though as they looked an expensive option.
 
Just bought a X-E2 from the Fuji refurbished site, using the discount code it was 275 quid including postage, looks like new to me.

Already got a X-T1, but found myself using a X-E1 most of the time so bought the newer model when I sold my last DSLR (Canon 5D)

Made the move a couple of years ago, haven't regretted it for one minute, my daughter did the same after using my smaller gear, she now has a XT-10

Reckon it has doubled the amount of times I take a camera out with me, mostly the smaller camera, standard zoom, spare battery and Lenspen.
All goes in a small padded case which then goes in my rucksack, If I want to take another lens just drop one in carried in a separate lens case.

Judge the results on their own rather than comparing too much, if you are happy with the new camera and it's photos go for it
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top