Mirror Lockup vs Normal on a Tripod

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Out of interest I decided to check my lens focussing today, primarily to see if any microfocussing might be required on my new Sigma 70-200 f2.8. I had never done it before and researched a simple method on how to do it.
To cut a long story short I found all my lenses, inlcuding the new Sigma to be spot on when compared to liveview on my 70D.

During the process however I saw how much the mirror movement affected the image captured. I was using a tripod (albeit a cheap one) and noticed that there was a noticeable vibration with the mirror not locked up vs locked up.
Below are a couple of cropped images (from a 50mm f1.4 lens, although all the lenses showed similar results) that show the difference between the mirror locked up and not. I was using a remote shutter release and waited for everything to settle being taking the shot. I also manually moved the focus each time to force the camera to re-focus.

It was only an issue with slow shutter speeds. The shots below are at 1/60th f1.6. At 1/100th and faster it's fine.

I didn't expect this when using the tripod. Is this to be expected? Is it due to my unsteady tripod or should I always consider using mirror lockup for the best static tripod shots?

Mirror Normal


Mirror Locked Up
 
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Mirror lockup will always give an improved shot but a poor tripod will always allow some vibration/movement.
For best, e.g. landscape, shots I use mirror lockup and remote release with the camera supported on a heavy duty Feisol C/F tripod (32mm leg dia) with no centre column.
 
I've found the cut-off shutter speed varies from lens to lens and body to body.
But broadly speaking, your results match my findings.
I use a Manfrotto 055 which is a reasonably good tripod; I'm not sure how significant the tripod is for this problem.

Note: Many people have commented that using Live View provides fractionally better results, even compared to MLU.
That's my preferred route as the screen helps me get a strong composition, check focus and check exposure.

You've not mentioned it, so I'll say it just in case...
Remember to turn IS off while on a tripod :)
 
Not surprising at all. The worst shutter speeds for mirror-slap are usually around 1/8sec to 1/30sec, and above that the faster speed reduces it progressively, and at longer speeds the camera usually settles after the initial shock and is still for most of the remaining exposure time. Cheap, lightweight tripods make it worse, and extending the centre column makes it much worse.

On some cameras, using live-view effectively engages mirror-lock up, but not all. And some Canons (possibly other brands, too) also have an electronically switched first shutter curtain so there is no movement at all until the second curtain closes mechanically.
 
I was using the tripod (IS off BTW) at almost full reach with the centre column well extended, so I expect that made it much more sensitive to any movement.
Good point about live view with normal tripod shots - this is the first camera I've had with live view and I often forget I have it.

I can't afford a better tripod right now but at least this helps me make the best of what I have.

Thanks guys.
 
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Personally I never use it but then that's because it really adds nothing then your talking 30 seconds plus which nearly all mine are and also for some of my stuff like star trails you cannot use it as it requires double depression of the shutter release and star trails require continuous shooting unless I am going to manually trigger every exposure that ain't happening :lol: as said above also remember to turn all IS/VR/OS to the off position when tripodded up :D
 
markmullen said:
@MWHCVT , if you need MLU for anything you could use LIveview which would allow you to do continuous shooting with the mirror locked up without the need for a double press.
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This is true Mark but anything that I use continuous shooting on like that is be a several hundred exposure image, live view would give me longer delays between exposure...double my actuations as I believe live view adds an actuation for each use..sure I've read that :thinking: and also increase my battery use..that said not a massive issue for myself on the battery as because of what I do I always shoot gripped and I have 3 pairs of genuine batteries for my cameras :D
 
MWHCVT said:
This is true Mark but anything that I use continuous shooting on like that is be a several hundred exposure image, live view would give me longer delays between exposure...double my actuations as I believe live view adds an actuation for each use..sure I've read that :thinking: and also increase my battery use..that said not a massive issue for myself on the battery as because of what I do I always shoot gripped and I have 3 pairs of genuine batteries for my cameras :D
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Surely you would stick it in live view at the start of the sequence and not touch the camera again until the end? One additional actuation and the mirror is locked up from the beginning and all the way through.
 
I was informed by a good friend and professional landscape photographer who I shoot with when he visits my area, never extend Center column when out shooting, don't know the science behind etc, and live view he prefers using himself too, great thread by the way
 
kevin obrian said:
I was informed by a good friend and professional landscape photographer who I shoot with when he visits my area, never extend Center column when out shooting, don't know the science behind etc, and live view he prefers using himself too, great thread by the way
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As far as I can see, if you extend the centre column you are essentially turning a tripod into a monopod.

Cheers and good experiments. I rarely use MLU, but might have a test.
 
markmullen said:
It also varies camera to camera. My Mamiya 645AFDii has a massive mirror which goes with a fair old clunk, so I always use MLU.
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I'm using an earlier generation of Mamiya 645s: one of the reasons I bought an m645 1000s to complement the m645j I already had was because the m645j doesn't have MLU, which made it tricky to use for tripod work.
 
Extending the tripod column makes the camera vulnerable to shake caused by wind. With filters attached the camera makes a big target. Effectively you are putting the camera on the end of a long vibratring stick. Bad for windy long exposures. You can eliminate the worst effects by body shielding, if you can get your body in the right place.
 
I'm just about to saw off most of my centre column as it won't go low enough :(

But then I never use it raised anyway, as with legs alone it goes higher than me :D

Personally, I've never noticed a slap issue but this is probably because if I'm using a tripod the exposure is easily long enough for any vibration to have gone and not show on the final image - as Hoppy says
 
DG Phototraining said:
I'm just about to saw off most of my centre column as it won't go low enough :(

But then I never use it raised anyway, as with legs alone it goes higher than me :D
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If you are using a Manfrotto, they do a really neat short centre column; IIRC it was quite reasonably priced.
Getting the best out of a tilt/shift for landscapes means getting low, for me that is typically legs un-extended and spread to the first extra wide notch; with the standard column the whole setup sits on the bottom of the centre column :)
 
When using the center column it's really handy if you can hang some weight off it, makes it a lot steadier. I modified my Slik tripod by addition of a cup hook and a hell of a lot of resin filler to strengthen it's mount, 5k of camera gear slung from it and it's AOK
 
Bit of advice from the collective please.

What would be recommended for shooting fireworks? Mirror lock-up or not? I've read Matthew's rather excellent guide on shooting fireworks but don't recall anything about mirror lock-up. If the rain stops here then I'm going to head out to our local display tonight.
 
Leslie said:
Bit of advice from the collective please.

What would be recommended for shooting fireworks? Mirror lock-up or not? I've read Matthew's rather excellent guide on shooting fireworks but don't recall anything about mirror lock-up. If the rain stops here then I'm going to head out to our local display tonight.
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It's not there because I've never had cause to use it, truth be told I just don't think it's needed out doors the enviromental aspects such as wind etc are going to have more effect than any mirror related vibrations

Edit: sorry meant to also thank you for your kind comments re: my guide
 
MWHCVT said:
It's not there because I've never had cause to use it, truth be told I just don't think it's needed out doors the enviromental aspects such as wind etc are going to have more effect than any mirror related vibrations

Edit: sorry meant to also thank you for your kind comments re: my guide
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Thanks Matthew. I can score that off my list of things to consider tonight!
 
Not sure if you know but microfocussing has absolutely no effect to Liveview.
Liveview uses contrast detect looking at the picture, normal DSLR uses phase detect through the viewfinder.

Have a look here and
Here you can see that with a microadjustment of -10, the 85mm f/1.8 can be made to focus much more accurately using conventional phase-detect AF. It's also important to understand that this setting doesn't affect the Dual Pixel AF focusing, so using microadjustment won't throw it out of alignment.
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Calzor Suzay said:
Not sure if you know but microfocussing has absolutely no effect to Liveview.
Liveview uses contrast detect looking at the picture, normal DSLR uses phase detect through the viewfinder.

Have a look here and
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Sure - I understand that, thanks. That's why I was doing the rough lens MFA checks against liveview.
 
Once you've got rid of mirror shock causing some image blur, the next mechanical problem causing image blur is shutter shock, to be specific first curtain shutter shock, because the exposure's over by the time the second (closing) curtain hits the stops. A lesser problem than mirror shock, and at higher shutter speeds. Hence the use of electronic front curtain in some recent cameras (e.g. Canon, Sony).

Easy to see how much effect it has and when if you have high magnification in live view. Just get some sharp tiny detail visible in live view, then take the shot. Look at the same detail. If it's not as sharp as it was in the live view then something moved your camera during the shot.

Try this experiment. Put your camera on a tripod, and with legs folded together hold the tripod feet and hoist the camera overhead. Take a shot with a timer delay. You should easily be able to feel the shutter going off by the shock travelling down the tripod legs and being felt in your hand holding the tripod feet. With a long enough lens that shock will cause image blurring.
 
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