Minimum alcohol pricing

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boliston said:
If you go to Norway it's £10 for a 500ml glass of beer - just been there so can vouch for that!
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It is a well known fact that although the prices for alcohol are exorbitant in Scandinavian countries, there are also high incidents of alcohol abuse.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/12/16/drunk-and-disorderly/

It is also a well known fact that people in Southern European countries have good access to cheap alcohol (particularly wine), but do not have the same binge drinking culture which we have in the UK.
I love red wine, but can count on the fingers of one hand the numbers of times I have been drunk.
 
andy700 said:
It is a well known fact that although the prices for alcohol are exorbitant in Scandinavian countries, there are also high incidents of alcohol abuse.

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2010/12/16/drunk-and-disorderly/

It is also a well known fact that people in Southern European countries have good access to cheap alcohol (particularly wine), but do not have the same binge drinking culture which we have in the UK.
I love red wine, but can count on the fingers of one hand the numbers of times I have been drunk.
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The Swedish like to hang out in their pubs despite higher prices. If you get paid "enough", and got nothing better to do in a dark, cold and rainy evening with your mates, that's what you probably end up doing. I think the French and Italian are more reasonable with drinking, however what I saw in Madrid at night is nothing short of Cardiff Saturday nights.
 
ST4 said:
The jails would be full - whilst I take your point about society you need to think about prevention rather the cure and those that don't drink heavily won't be taxed so heavily as it's only a few units a week they consume.

I prefer rationing myself - 10 units per week no more than 5 in a 24hr period would be great level and enforceable by a system like the Oyster card.
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People will still drink in much the same way, they will just spend more doing it and buy more dangerous knock off booze. Prevention is all about society/punishment/morals - get those right and booze could be 20p a pint with no problems.
 
When I'm in Italy visiting family, at meal times children are encouraged to have a small glass of wine at the dinner table, yet I never see any drunks in the bars etc, youngsters are polite and respectful.

Im scared to go out at times over here for a pint, parents need to take more responsibility in how children are brought up.

As for putting the price of alcohol up, won't this just make people turn to crime to pay for it?
 
daugirdas said:
In what way exactly will it punish the majority? 50p / unit or around £1 a bottle of beer or cider is in reality cheaper than any half decent product on the supermarket shelves. We are talking horrible value brands cheap booze that does nothing but gets the chavs and kids drunk on the cheap. The proposed price is in fact too low to make much [needed] impact. I hope I made my point clear enough.

P.S. I absolutely hate the culture of getting drunk, vomiting and waking up in AE every weekend. I don't know what is so attractive about it, and it is not just the British thing. It's everywhere.
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I did say it's the principle. If you have an issue with a minority and the solution potentially affects everyone in a detrimental way then that solution is not a good one in my opinion.

Getting into the detail of this particular solution, make no mistake, it would not make any difference to those people binge drinking in pubs at the weekend as the proposed minimum is well below the current pub prices, in general. So, who would this proposal be aimed at? Just the poor I guess.

Chavs and kids on the cheap - well enforce the law not to sell to under age kids would sort the kids and chavs is too wide a term to know who you really mean.

I agree ref getting so drunk you would end up in A&E, not something I have ever done. Can't remember the last time I was ill from booze.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
How much would that be? £20? £40? Why should I pay that price just because of some unemployed p***heads?
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Alcohol is an optional thing and really the problem is not just unemployed p*** heads but employed ones student ones as well. Late night licensing beyond 11pm should IMHO be stopped & alcohol drinks priced in such a way that 1 unit in a pub will cost you about a tenner to deter excessive drinking. Those out drinking no more then the max daily NHS guideline would find that affordable, those out to drink to get drunk. No chance. They'd be priced out.

Unlike class A, B drugs we cannot outlaw it but alcohol miss use can have similar effects to these drugs. This is a step towards a safer healthier more law abiding society
 
cambsno said:
People will still drink in much the same way, they will just spend more doing it and buy more dangerous knock off booze. Prevention is all about society/punishment/morals - get those right and booze could be 20p a pint with no problems.
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Our culture is different. There will be the odd hardened nutter that will do this but the bulk will simply find it's too expensive to drink a lot in pubs avd drinking a lot at home is too dear so they'll simply get bored , drink less avd amuse themselves in other ways
 
ST4 said:
Our culture is different. There will be the odd hardened nutter that will do this but the bulk will simply find it's too expensive to drink a lot in pubs avd drinking a lot at home is too dear so they'll simply get bored , drink less avd amuse themselves in other ways
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Aye, maybe they'll turn to drugs, become addicted and start stealing to feed their expensive habit. Result!
Maybe they'll start stealing to fund their expensive alcohol addiction.
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
Aye, maybe they'll turn to drugs, become addicted and start stealing to feed their expensive habit. Result!
Maybe they'll start stealing to fund their expensive alcohol addiction.
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No. Other than heavy Friday Saturday night drinking many are students or employed. They'll simply drink less.

What have you to fear from this legislation anyway?
 
ST4 said:
Alcohol is an optional thing and really the problem is not just unemployed p*** heads but employed ones student ones as well. Late night licensing beyond 11pm should IMHO be stopped & alcohol drinks priced in such a way that 1 unit in a pub will cost you about a tenner to deter excessive drinking. Those out drinking no more then the max daily NHS guideline would find that affordable, those out to drink to get drunk. No chance. They'd be priced out.

Unlike class A, B drugs we cannot outlaw it but alcohol miss use can have similar effects to these drugs. This is a step towards a safer healthier more law abiding society
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What do you mean stop licensing beyond 11pm?
Wasn't extending the licences a government hair brain scheme to stop binge drinking in the first place?
Did it work? Probably about as much as increasing prices will.

Those going out to get tanked wouldn't be priced out anyway, pub and club prices are far more than proposed minimum prices so they wouldn't be effected.

Those buying cheap plonk and sitting in the park are probably stealing the money or booze anyway, so they more than likely are not going to bothered about a few extra pence per unit.
 
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ST4 said:
Alcohol is an optional thing and really the problem is not just unemployed p*** heads but employed ones student ones as well. Late night licensing beyond 11pm should IMHO be stopped & alcohol drinks priced in such a way that 1 unit in a pub will cost you about a tenner to deter excessive drinking. Those out drinking no more then the max daily NHS guideline would find that affordable, those out to drink to get drunk. No chance. They'd be priced out.

Unlike class A, B drugs we cannot outlaw it but alcohol miss use can have similar effects to these drugs. This is a step towards a safer healthier more law abiding society
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And basically kill off our pub trade? Talk about big brother. Sledgehammer to crack a nut.

The licensing laws are fine. My local never had any issues despite shutting when the last person leaves. Often it will not close till 2,3 or 4am with no probs.
 
Some people speed.

Let's ensure that all cars can only do a max of 70mph.
 
I love how ex-drinkers are as rabidly anti drink as ex smokers are anti fag :lol:
 
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ST4 said:
No. Other than heavy Friday Saturday night drinking many are students or employed. They'll simply drink less.

What have you to fear from this legislation anyway?
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Upsurge in black market. Once the cost of a commodity reaches a certain level then that creates a lucrative market in which criminals will operate. At that point a whole new set of problems emerge akin to what exists with narcotics. Already happening with tobacco. I have been approached in a busy public street in Glasgow by total strangers asking if I wanted to buy fags at half price (I don't smoke so don't know why they picked me ?). Organised crime will get involved (or get more involved than it already is) in supplying bootleg booze.
Legislation is infrequently the answer to issues. Not exactly been an outstanding success in dealing with drugs problems.
 
ST4 said:
No. Other than heavy Friday Saturday night drinking many are students or employed. They'll simply drink less.

What have you to fear from this legislation anyway?
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Probably about the same as you if they limited all cars to 70mph:)

I don't drink much, maybe 2 pints a week, but why should I pay £20 for 2 pints because of others lack of control?
If you think rationing would work, and be enforceable, then I don't have to pay £10 a pint, but I don't see why the majority should be punished/restricted because of the inconsiderate actions of the few.
 
arclight said:
Upsurge in black market. Once the cost of a commodity reaches a certain level then that creates a lucrative market in which criminals will operate. At that point a whole new set of problems emerge akin to what exists with narcotics. Already happening with tobacco. I have been approached in a busy public street in Glasgow by total strangers asking if I wanted to buy fags at half price (I don't smoke so don't know why they picked me ?). Organised crime will get involved (or get more involved than it already is) in supplying bootleg booze.
Legislation is infrequently the answer to issues. Not exactly been an outstanding success in dealing with drugs problems.
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There has been a black market in bootleg booze for years. A lot of it started as people managing to bring in more than their allowance from day trips to France and gradually escalating. I knew someone who did this about 15yrs ago, he turned it into a legitimate business importing drink lorry loads and got very wealthy from it.
 
nilagin said:
There has been a black market in bootleg booze for years. A lot of it started as people managing to bring in more than their allowance from day trips to France and gradually escalating. I knew someone who did this about 15yrs ago, he turned it into a legitimate business importing drink lorry loads and got very wealthy from it.
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Yes, I know of that going on and have seen evidence of it from time to time. The more the price of legitimate liquor rises the greater will be the demand for the cut price knock off stuff.

I can never understand that given A&E departments are inundated with drunk people then why are pubs/clubs permitted to stay open until silly o'clock every night. Also, publicans used to lose their licences for serving alcohol to people who have already had too much. That does not seem to happen now.

Somehow I think that the bottom line will always be that alcohol problems will be tackled provided no measure is taken that will reduce profits.

BTW, the unit pricing proposed is way way below what some folk already pay for booze in clubs.
 
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Bobsyeruncle said:
Probably about the same as you if they limited all cars to 70mph:)

I don't drink much, maybe 2 pints a week, but why should I pay £20 for 2 pints because of others lack of control?
If you think rationing would work, and be enforceable, then I don't have to pay £10 a pint, but I don't see why the majority should be punished/restricted because of the inconsiderate actions of the few.
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I'd have nothing to fear from that. I'd actually support it. It would stop excessive speeding on motorways.

However we saw speed limits because of the 180mph ac cobra exercise on the M1, so you could say we have mway speed limits due to the inconsiderate actions of a few.

£10/pint sounds about the same as our brethren in Finland and it's been a great success in a country which had issues of alcohol abuse.

I'd prefer rationing so those wealthy enough to drink 15units in a night couldn't. It would be enforceable via rationing. It wouldn't be cheap to implement but something needs doing. Rich drunk people are a menace too.

The governments here trying to do something about this issue. In flabbergasted anyone wouldn't be for minimum pricing if it kerbs Alocihil consumption
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
, but I don't see why the majority should be punished/restricted because of the inconsiderate actions of the few.
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ST4 said:
However we saw speed limits because of the 180mph ac cobra exercise on the M1, so you could say we have mway speed limits due to the inconsiderate actions of a few.
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Absolutely ! I think if you look back through recent history other examples of the "minority rules" can and will be found.
 
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viv1969 said:
I love how ex-drinkers are as rabidly anti drink as ex smokers are anti fag :LOL:
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For the record I was neither. However I hate both more than all of you put together.
 
I just don't get minimum pricing. What is it to the government to artificially inflate prices and effectively sponsor unfair competition and profit making. It is skirting around the issue without actually guiding those that need it. It is a punitive measure for most, and profitable for a few.
 
daugirdas said:
For the record I was neither. However I hate both more than all of you put together.
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There's nothing like the feeling of camaraderie on an internet group :thumbs:
 
dejongj said:
I just don't get minimum pricing. What is it to the government to artificially inflate prices and effectively sponsor unfair competition and profit making. It is skirting around the issue without actually guiding those that need it. It is a punitive measure for most, and profitable for a few.
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They get to charge more in Sin Taxes!
 
daugirdas said:
For the record I was neither. However I hate both more than all of you put together.
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Charming. It's a good natured thread this. Keep it this way.

I hate rowdy drunkeness, a lot of the public do. Public transport services like buses, trains should refuse carriage to these rowdy people for the sake of the comfort abs safety of the other passangers and staff.

On trains in Scotland and England there's people swigging beer on the platforms, in the trains chanting and swearing. It's not on. Nevermind what you witness in the mean streets at night
 
ST4 said:
I'd have nothing to fear from that. I'd actually support it. It would stop excessive speeding on motorways.

However we saw speed limits because of the 180mph ac cobra exercise on the M1, so you could say we have mway speed limits due to the inconsiderate actions of a few.

£10/pint sounds about the same as our brethren in Finland and it's been a great success in a country which had issues of alcohol abuse.

I'd prefer rationing so those wealthy enough to drink 15units in a night couldn't. It would be enforceable via rationing. It wouldn't be cheap to implement but something needs doing. Rich drunk people are a menace too.

The governments here trying to do something about this issue. In flabbergasted anyone wouldn't be for minimum pricing if it kerbs Alocihil consumption
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Really!!

An old boss was Finnish and he liked to drink. Like most they would buy booze abroad or make their own. My wife's friend is Swedish. Her dad brews his own spirit as do loads of others.

For most alcohol consumption is not an issue.
 
andy700 said:
I know that there is a problem with alcohol abuse in the whole of the UK, not just Scotland, but I am totally against introducing minimum pricing because it discriminates against the poorest in society.
Do you think that it is fair to only allow wealthy people to get drunk?
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except it won't - 50p a unit will really only affect the low priced high alcohol drinks not standard beers etc
 
Reducing binge drinking will take years and need a variety of changes on all sorts of ways. I live in Munich, in the south of Germany. And beer is a tightly integrated part of the culture. So kids of all ages are allowed in pubs and beergardens. The big cultural events are beerfests. Beer is legally food and there is no licence required to sell it. No off-licences. And great beers are 50p a pint in the shops. Beer used to be served in the office canteen as well as beer vending machines in the office corridor. But I've not seen that for a while.

Anyway binge drinking is not a problem here apart from the tourists at the Oktoberfest.

Hey! I'm doing my best to keep the British end up since I landed 'sausage side!'
 
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ianp5a said:
Reducing binge drinking will take years and need a variety of changes on all sorts of ways. I live in Munich, in the south of Germany. And beer is a tightly integrated part of the culture. So kids of all ages are allowed in pubs and beergardens. The big cultural events are beerfests. Beer is legally food and there is no licence required to sell it. No off-licences. And great beers are 50p a pint in the shops. Beer used to be served in the office canteen as well as beer vending machines in the office corridor. But I've not seen that for a while.

Anyway binge drinking is not a problem here apart from the tourists at the Oktoberfest.

Hey! I'm doing my best to keep the British end up since I landed 'sausage side!'
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I recall seeing beer in McDonald's in Germany in 1985....was I imagining it?
 
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