Mini-Roundabouts : Who has right of way?

Marcel

Marcel

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Marcel
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Here's the situation. Approaching mini roundabout. Options for you are turning left or turning right (90 degrees....used to be a T-Junction).

There's no traffic coming from the left. You're at the give way line.
You look to your right and there's a car some way away doing a fair old speed with no sign of slowing down. You can easily pull out onto the roundabout and be the only one on it.
However, the car to your right (like I say, not yet AT the roundabout), will clip the back of your car if they don't slow down.

Now the sensible option (and one I often do) is wait for the nobber in the car to speed over the roundabout and past you, then pull out. Safe driving and all that.

There have been one or two instances where I've not been able to see the car due to restricted view and his excess speed, and I've pulled out, only to be honked at by the driver on the right because I made him slow down.

Yes, the rule is give way to your right ..... but he isn't technically on your right until he enters the roundabout.
Traffic that's approaching the roundabout has no right of way over you.

Discuss :)
 
If you can see he (or she) is going to fast, just wait, otherwise you risk getting clipped. From a legal point of view, you'd probably be okay, as you may be able to prove excessive speed, but why take the risk?
 
Sounds like a badly designed layout. I notice these days they usually avoid this kind of thing by positioning the roundabout slightly off-centre, therefore increasing the severity of the bend and preventing any high-speed chicanery.

Whose fault would it be? God knows but it would be a lot of hassle finding out. If I were you I'd find anothet route that avoids that roundabout.
 
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Matt : You just watch from a safe distance :D
 
johnnypanic said:
If you can see he (or she) is going to fast, just wait, otherwise you risk getting clipped. From a legal point of view, you'd probably be okay, as you may be able to prove excessive speed, but why take the risk?
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That's what I normally do. Defensive driving I suppose.
However, I shouldn't have to. The other driver is in the wrong, assuming that just because he is on the right of me directionally, he has right of way.

ZoneV said:
Sounds like a badly designed layout. I notice these days they usually avoid this kind of thing by positioning the roundabout slightly to an off-centre position to prevent any high-speed chicanery.
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This is just one roundabout. There are plenty with good visibility where the other guy thinks they're in the right. More and more don't slow down.
When I'm approaching the same roundabout from the other direction, then I slow down, expecting someone to appear on my left and maybe pull out, only when I see it's going to stay clear do I proceed across. More and more people don't, and it's really beginning to annoy me.
 
ZoneV said:
Sounds like a badly designed layout. I notice these days they usually avoid this kind of thing by positioning the roundabout slightly off-centre, therefore increasing the severity of the bend and preventing any high-speed chicanery.
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They should be designed like this in the first place. However there is some very badly designed roundabouts and mini-roundabouts out there.

So simple answer is the person on your right has right of way just like a normal sized roundabout. Sensible approach is to wait, easier that way.
 
Marcel said:
Matt : You just watch from a safe distance :D
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Indeed though as others have since posted I believe if your there first you get right of way but that said if you don't think they'll stop no point risking a crash as possible issues...
 
Next time you approach a mini-roundabout take a look at the road markings and you will notice that one or more of the roads has double white 'Give Way' lines.

The others will have a single white line, so those at the give way markings have to give way to those at the single white lines.
 
Marcel said:
That's what I normally do. Defensive driving I suppose.
However, I shouldn't have to. The other driver is in the wrong, assuming that just because he is on the right of me directionally, he has right of way.



This is just one roundabout. There are plenty with good visibility where the other guy thinks they're in the right. More and more don't slow down.
When I'm approaching the same roundabout from the other direction, then I slow down, expecting someone to appear on my left and maybe pull out, only when I see it's going to stay clear do I proceed across. More and more people don't, and it's really beginning to annoy me.
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Yes, I know what you mean. What I meant was, instead of relying on people's common sense telling them to slow down enough in case another car enters the roundabout, these days they tend to plan the roundabout layout so there in no fast route, often by stcking the roundabout off-centre. This means people have to slow down.
 
I was involved in an accident in exactly that situation.
According to my insurance company the person on the right had the right of way even though he was nowhere near the roundabout when I pulled out.
I put forward the argument that as I was on the roundabout before him, he should have given way to me (Give way to traffic already on the roundabout :) )but they were not interested. Probably because he said that he was not speeding and I pulled out in front of him - I was never going to win that one.
Nowadays I just assume that other drivers will just drive straight over the roundabout without slowing and so I wait and wait until I can pull out.
 
The situation which baffles some people (on a four way mini roundabout) is, if you are turning right, you have right of way over someone coming in the opposite direction to you who wants to go straight on. I have had a few near misses from people who thought it was their right of way.


Steve.
 
AFC said:
Next time you approach a mini-roundabout take a look at the road markings and you will notice that one or more of the roads has double white 'Give Way' lines.

The others will have a single white line, so those at the give way markings have to give way to those at the single white lines.
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Interesting.
I just looked at the roundabout where I had my accident and 1 road has double white lines plus a painted triangle on the road. The other 2 roads have single white lines and no triangle.
I was on one of the single white line roads and the person who hit me was on the other one.
 
Years of 'biking and too many funerals have taught me that it's always better to err on the side of caution and let the tw@ go first. Technically. if he's approaching from your right, he has right of way anyhow and if you do go first (and he misses you), you'll have gained all of a second or 3 in journey time - if he doesn't miss you, you're Matted!!! (sorry!)

Mini roundabouts have exactly the same rules as real ones (you're even supposed to go around the solid circle not over it...)
 
Nod said:
Mini roundabouts have exactly the same rules as real ones (you're even supposed to go around the solid circle not over it...)
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That is an impossibility for a lot of vehicles, there just isn't enough room. Hence why they are painted or very slightly domed.
 
There seems to be quite a few of you missing my point.
Yes, the best option is to wait and let them go...
Im talking about right of way.

Is it give right of way to traffic on the right ON the roundabout, or is it give right of way to traffic on the right on or approaching the roundabout?

That's the burning question.

Interesting point about the single and double white lines.

In the example I've given, I had single white dashed lined, the driver to my right (the one with his foot down treating it as no roundabout at all) has the same. The one to my left has the double white dashed line.
 
nilagin said:
That is an impossibility for a lot of vehicles, there just isn't enough room. Hence why they are painted or very slightly domed.
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HGV's, busses, etc do not have to comply but all other vehicles do.
 
Suvv said:
Interesting.
I just looked at the roundabout where I had my accident and 1 road has double white lines plus a painted triangle on the road. The other 2 roads have single white lines and no triangle.
I was on one of the single white line roads and the person who hit me was on the other one.
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So in that situation one person HAS to give way and of the other 2 thats left observe the correct procedure i.e give way to the right.

Ask any of your mates to describe the line markings at a mini-roundabout and you'll be surprised at the number of people who haven't got a clue.
 
AFC said:
So in that situation one person HAS to give way and of the other 2 thats left observe the correct procedure i.e give way to the right.

Ask any of your mates to describe the line markings at a mini-roundabout and you'll be surprised at the number of people who haven't got a clue.
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Having recently just redesigned the approach to a mini roundabout, I don't remember anything about this white line markings rule and the existing roundabout all had single white dashed lines.

You give why to the right just like a normal roundabout, simple as that.
 
Mbuti said:
Having recently just redesigned the approach to a mini roundabout, I don't remember anything about this white line markings rule and the existing roundabout all had single white dashed lines.

You give why to the right just like a normal roundabout, simple as that.
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A roundabout designer? Fantastic! Does what I said up there make any sense to you or have I had too many chocolate liqueurs? :D
 
Mbuti said:
Having recently just redesigned the approach to a mini roundabout, I don't remember anything about this white line markings rule and the existing roundabout all had single white dashed lines.

You give why to the right just like a normal roundabout, simple as that.
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So you have not seen mini-roundabouts with double white lines and give way markings?
 
ZoneV said:
A roundabout designer? Fantastic! Does what I said up there make any sense to you or have I had too many chocolate liqueurs? :D
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Yes, its correct. Its called deflection and when the roundabout is designed you check it to make sure its below a certain number.

I used to designer highways, don't anymore but do get to table init now and again.
 
AFC said:
So you have not seen mini-roundabouts with double white lines and give way markings?
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Will check what the standards say tomorrow, but usually on mini-roundabout on entry to the roundabout there is just a single white dashed line. I cannot think of any that I have driven that have double white dashed lines.
 
The single and double lines confuse me even more. Surely the single dotted line means give way to the right....what difference does the double line actually indicate? Give "more" way?

Going to back to Marcel's original question, I think I know exactly which island you are on about and as far as I can see the highway code doesn't really cover anything specific (no surprise there!) about how close the driver has to be for the right of way to be given....so I guess it would be down to "the law" to decide who was in the right :shrug:

If it is the island I am thinking of I am always more worried about something flying in from the, hidden, left and not stopping (though they do have a magically double dotted line!).
 
Jimmy_Lemon said:
The single and double lines confuse me even more. Surely the single dotted line means give way to the right....what difference does the double line actually indicate? Give "more" way?

Going to back to Marcel's original question, I think I know exactly which island you are on about and as far as I can see the highway code doesn't really cover anything specific (no surprise there!) about how close the driver has to be for the right of way to be given....so I guess it would be down to "the law" to decide who was in the right :shrug:

If it is the island I am thinking of I am always more worried about something flying in from the, hidden, left and not stopping (though they do have a magically double dotted line!).
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It's not that one, although that one does exhibit the same problem (as well as another one...the driver from the left lol)

It's the first one you come to when leaving my house.
 
Marcel said:
Discuss :)
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Personally, I think that the 'rules' of the road should be banned from discussion just like religion and politics.
 
Pah, come on, join a side and fight! Wuss!
 
Marcel said:
It's the first one you come to when leaving my house.
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...now that depends if I remember to turn the right way at the end of your street (and mistake I haven't made for a while).

My general rule is that I give way to anything on the right that could possibly be on to the island before I am clear (much like a regular t-junction). The difficulty in seeing what is coming would just make me more cautious of pulling out (as it would at any junction).

The bit that has generally confused me about this whole thread (and reading other stuff about mini-islands) is how damn ambiguous the Highway Code is regarding them....giving way to traffic approaching from the right had always lead me to believe that I have priority over oncoming traffic if turning across their path (as I would be approaching from their right....as you are supposed to treat it as a normal island...IE not go over it). But a lot of what I have read...and the extra confusion of the double white lines, has left me completely baffled as to who has the right of way.

Luckily I have never had an accident on a mini-roundabout (or anywhere tbh) but would be great to know the hard and fast rules in case anything ever was to happen.
 
TBH I think you should drive around here for a bit,
and you will soon learn how to accelerate out
in front of traffic, coming from your right.

And when they honk at you, for making them slow down, to anywhere near the legal limit,
you move your hand / wrist in an up and down motion, to signify your disgust.

Well that's what they do here all the time so it must be right :shrug:

However when my daughter was learning to drive, the "turning right rule" seemed to
apply, to roundabouts, do it safely, without making the on coming traffic slow down or change direction.
And certainly donot enter the roundabout, if the car to your right, has already crossed the "give way" lines.
 
Marcel said:
Pah, come on, join a side and fight! Wuss!
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Since returning to my hometown, roundabouts have become one of my biggest bugbares due to poor roadmarkings :D

There is one similar to what you describe though and my advice is approach it cautiously, but prepare to take advantage of other drivers' hesitation.
 
From reading the Highway Code (surprising that no one else has mentioned it).


188
Mini-roundabouts. Approach these in the same way as normal roundabouts. All vehicles MUST pass round the central markings except large vehicles which are physically incapable of doing so. Remember, there is less space to manoeuvre and less time to signal. Avoid making U-turns at mini-roundabouts. Beware of others doing this.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10(1) & 16(1)

189
At double mini-roundabouts treat each roundabout separately and give way to traffic from the right.
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And Normal roundabouts say:

185
When reaching the roundabout you should

give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.
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So the person approaching from your right has right of way.
 
That diagram surmises the two roundabouts near me exactly, down to the single / double white lines.

I'm the one pulling out of number 2 and trying to turn right.
I can't believe the law would allow a driver to tank it down the road from the right (number 1), and have right of way in doing so.
This used to be a t-junction, so if that was the case then it would seem pointless putting a mini roundabout in.
 
Marcel said:
That diagram surmises the two roundabouts near me exactly, down to the single / double white lines.

I'm the one pulling out of number 2 and trying to turn right.
I can't believe the law would allow a driver to tank it down the road from the right (number 1), and have right of way in doing so.
This used to be a t-junction, so if that was the case then it would seem pointless putting a mini roundabout in.
Click to expand...

I would imagine if there was sufficient traffic approaching along route 2, a mini roundabout instead of a T junction would help reduce congestion (Now when turning right, someone approaching on route 2 only has to give way to the right. As a T junction, they would have to give way to the left AND right).
 
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Marcel, if it was still a T-junction would you be on the minor road?


Heather
 
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