milly Dowlers family?

Splog

Splog

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Should they be charged with inciting violence or even murder following their remarks outside the courtroom?
 
I know, how dare they be bitter, angry and vengeful just because there daughter was brutally raped and murdered ! :thinking:

Emphatically No! of course they should not be charged.

I actually think its time more victims got a voice. They are just saying what everyone else thinks anyway. People like Levi Bellfield should go to prison and spend the rest of there miserable lives in total fear.
 
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I'd post my true thoughts on what should happen to him but I guarantee it would get me banned within a couple of minutes so I shall keep quite...I just hope he ends up in general population and there's a nice CCTV blind spot ;)

Matt
MWHCVT
 
So playing devils advocate and going along with Steve.

Are you all saying it would be fine for the Dowler family to pay for a hit on Levi Bellfield, or to help smuggle a gun or knife in to the prison so that an accomplice could murder him.
 
whiteflyer said:
So playing devils advocate and going along with Steve.

Are you all saying it would be fine for the Dowler family to pay for a hit on Levi Bellfield, or to help smuggle a gun or knife in to the prison so that an accomplice could murder him.
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I don't know if I could say if it's right or not that a very deep argument but I will say I won't loose any sleep if something were to happen to him...

I don't have kids myself but I have a lot of nieces and nephews and god help me I don't know what I'd do if I was in the situation that the Dowler family have been forced into...let's remember Levi Bellfield made a choice to do what he did, he violated the most basic right of all his victims, I truly believe that any individual that commits a crime of the nature of his should forfeit their own human rights

Those are my views and I'm happy to stand by them

Matt
MWHCVT
 
MWHCVT said:
I don't know if I could say if it's right or not that a very deep argument but I will say I won't loose any sleep if something were to happen to him...

I don't have kids myself but I have a lot of nieces and nephews and god help me I don't know what I'd do if I was in the situation that the Dowler family have been forced into...let's remember Levi Bellfield made a choice to do what he did, he violated the most basic right of all his victims, I truly believe that any individual that commits a crime of the nature of his should forfeit their own human rights

Those are my views and I'm happy to stand by them

Matt
MWHCVT
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This.

Andy
 
whiteflyer said:
So playing devils advocate and going along with Steve.

Are you all saying it would be fine for the Dowler family to pay for a hit on Levi Bellfield, or to help smuggle a gun or knife in to the prison so that an accomplice could murder him.
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Have they said anything of the sort? I'm baffled by this entire subject. My understanding was that they criticised the trial, and certain aspects of the police investigation, and from what I've read, I don't blame them. I haven't heard any nonsense about offing Bellfield in prison.
 
Splog said:
Should they be charged with inciting violence or even murder following their remarks outside the courtroom?
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No, absolutely not, as usual they have suffered not only the sorrow of having a daughter murdered but the intignity and trauma of being treated like criminals in the trial of their daughter's murderer.
Milly's sister said that taking a life should be punished with the death penalty, I for one agree - and in the case of this man he is a multiple-murderer.
Milly's mum says that she hopes he spends his life in jail in fear, sadly that won't happen, he'll be cossetted to the extent that incarceration makes that possible.
My biggest question is this; at the end of the trial the judge criticised the murderer for not coming to court ... what the heck is that all about ... he didn't choose to come to court? Drag him there in chains if necessary, I've never heard anything so ridiculous ... human rights I suppose ...
 
I'm not sure what they are alleged to have said outside the court, but if it's incitement to violence of murder, then it's difficult to see how they are then separate or different from Bellfield?
As for being treated like criminals? Well, like it or not, it's the system we have. I've not seen anything that suggests, apart from Surrey's CC trying to get publicity, anything that suggests they were. Challenging and testing evidence is part of being a witness.
A defence Barrister is there to defend his client, and if the family's evidence has chinks in it, it will get exploited or challenged. I'm sure if you were the defendant you'd be only too pleased for that to happen.
 
What I heard on the box was an expression of hope that he spends the rest of his life in fear. I doubt whether many would disagree with that sentiment or take it to be incitement to violence.

One of the many things that strikes me as wrong in this case is that he was entitled to the best possible defence, all paid for by us of course. He was already serving a whole life term for murder so the quality of his defence couldn't possibly make the slightest difference to either his reputation or to the length of time served - am I wrong on this or have human rights gone mad?

I believe that free legal aid is no longer available for many 'minor' crimes, where the accused have already lost their reputation as fine upstanding citizens by virtue of previous convictions, so why does it still exist to serve convicted murderers?
 
I sympathise totally with them. Last year I was a witness/victim. The police threatened to arrest me as part of their "witness care". My crime? I asked to see a copy of my statement before I went to court. Perverting the course of justice I was told. The thug was given copies of my statement, all my personal details, Legal Aid (paid for by me) and full legal representation. Those are his rights. I was denied any access to any legal help, and when I turned up at court was strip searched because it was considered that I was likely to be carrying a knife to attack the thug.

Needless to say I couldn't handle all this, the case collapsed and he is now walking free, doing the same things again. But his rights are protected. Me - I have no rights.
 
Splog said:
Should they be charged with inciting violence or even murder following their remarks outside the courtroom?
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The sentiments of the family are totally understandable. If your son or doctor was murdered how do you think you would feel?

Can't believe you started a thread with such a ridiculous statement :nono:
 
I don't know the ins and outs of what went on at the trial, but my concern is that the jury was told of his past convictions. I thought this was not allowed so to give the defendant an un-biased trial. My worry is he now could now use this as a right to appeal.

Garry Edwards said:
One of the many things that strikes me as wrong in this case is that he was entitled to the best possible defence, all paid for by us of course.
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mickledore said:
I. The thug was given copies of my statement, all my personal details, Legal Aid (paid for by me) and full legal representation. Those are his rights.
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Remember to swap he and his to I'm and our. There may be a time (god forbid) when you or I need those rights for ourselves.
 
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whiteflyer said:
I don't know the ins and outs of what went on at the trial, but my concern is that the jury was told of his past convictions. I thought this was not allowed so to give the defendant an un-biased trial. My worry is he now could now use this as a right to appeal.






Remember to swap he and his to my and our. There may be a time (god forbid) when you or I need the right for ourselves.
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And those in the witness box have no rights. That's not an opinion - that's the law.
 
whiteflyer said:
So playing devils advocate and going along with Steve.

Are you all saying it would be fine for the Dowler family to pay for a hit on Levi Bellfield, or to help smuggle a gun or knife in to the prison so that an accomplice could murder him.
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Thats a helluva leap is it not. No one here is suggesting anything of the kind Thats the kind of over the top nonsense the press come out with. :thinking:
 
A gun or knife isnt required, take 1 kettle full of water, 1/2 a bag of suger, mix , boil, apply to targets skin thats usually the way or aquire a razor blade, broken bic razor usually, melt the end of a toothbrush and attach said blade and again apply to targets skin.
Sex offenders are usualy considered the lowest of low inside our jails, if someone wants to get him they will, probably take a bit of time but they will, anything said by the family outside the court would have little effect on that.
 
Some intetesting replies, but just for clarity. I wasn't suggesting that they should be subjected to any further torture for what they said. It was a question for discussion. Personally, I fully agree with the mother that he receives the same kind of violence in prison as he subjected his victims to.

My concern is that their words may be used to protect him even more than he already is.
 
whiteflyer said:
I don't know the ins and outs of what went on at the trial, but my concern is that the jury was told of his past convictions. I thought this was not allowed so to give the defendant an un-biased trial. My worry is he now could now use this as a right to appeal.
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This is now known as "Bad Character Evidence". The law changed in 2003 regarding this. Essentially, prior to a trial, the CPS can make an application to the Judge to admit prior convictions of a defendant in evidence. The defence are allowed to attend, and will usually vigorously oppose such an application. The judge will listen to the arguments of both parties and determine if it is relevant to the case (e.g. bringing up a Drink Drive conviction would probably not have been relevant to the case). A great many of them are turned down. However, in this case, I can see how it would be perfectly relevant to mention that Bellfield was currently serving a whole life term for Murder x 2 and Attempted Murder. Bad Character was brought in because, prior to 2003, there was no legal redress for a defendant who claimed to be of "good" character, when they were actually nothing of the sort (and consequently misleading the jury) - the offence of Perjury not being suitable to deal with this. Past convictions were only allowed to be mentioned in very narrow circumstances, almost exclusively in situations where to do so was unavoidable - such as in a Driving Whilst Disqualified matter, where it is inherently impossible not to mention that the defendant has already received a conviction and been banned from motoring.

There are other ways that Bad Character can be brought into play. To keep the post readable, the main ways that this happens is through the defendant mentioning his own previous convictions, attacking the character of a witness (e.g. "Bob Dowler is a lying *******") or lying about his own character in order to present a distorted picture to the Jury (e.g. "Mr Bellfield is a fine upstanding citizen who has never been in this sort of trouble before"). In most cases, it is through the CPS application already mentioned.

To put your mind at rest on this aspect, it is a perfectly lawful thing to do.
 
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Photoplod
Evidence of previous charater has always been admissible when the defence (didn't have to be the defendant, it could be his barrister) made allegations of dishonesty against a prosecution witness. The application to do so was then made in open court by the prosecution.
Great fun, pre CPS when (in the met) Police officers prosecuted and (usually) newly qualified solicitor/barrister for the defence assumed said PC didn't know about it.
 
MWHCVT said:
I'd post my true thoughts on what should happen to him but I guarantee it would get me banned within a couple of minutes so I shall keep quite...I just hope he ends up in general population and there's a nice CCTV blind spot ;)

Matt
MWHCVT
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I agree with above, & if they need someone to do the job put my name forward!
 
Bellfield is as evil as they come and warrants the worst possible humiliation and pain for as long as he lives.
Another disturbing aspect of this case appears to be the blundering detective work prior to his arrest. How come most arrests nowadays seem to be from luck/chance rather than meticulous detectives?
 
I recently managed to get my ex's adopted dad sent down for 7 years for abusing her starting from when she was 5. She is now 30. I had to have counselling because I told the doctor if I don't speak to someone and happened to see him in street (he was on bail) I'd quite probably kill him. I was dead serious and I got counselling sorted in 3 days.

So I can see why they are so angry to say such things.

As for charging them. It's not in the publics interest basically. They are not a danger to society as a whole and the chances of them actually doing anything is more than slim. Would be a waste of resources and money and unjust.
 
I feel really sorry for Bellfield as he will basically spend his sentence in solitary which is not right. The prison authorities should not let this happen and make sure he is put in the main part of the prison in a nice cell with other cell mates...
 
cambsno said:
I feel really sorry for Bellfield as he will basically spend his sentence in solitary which is not right. The prison authorities should not let this happen and make sure he is put in the main part of the prison in a nice cell with other cell mates...
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:plusone:

A fat bloke called vinny who is in for GBH would make an ideal cell mate to 'comfort' him at night :lol:
 
cambsno said:
I feel really sorry for Bellfield as he will basically spend his sentence in solitary which is not right. The prison authorities should not let this happen and make sure he is put in the main part of the prison in a nice cell with other cell mates...
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big soft moose said:
:plusone:

A fat bloke called vinny who is in for GBH would make an ideal cell mate to 'comfort' him at night :lol:
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I feel your both going to be wrong, he be put on a wing with others who have committed the same or very similar crimes and who won't share the revulsion to his action as the rest of humanity.
 
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