MF lens dilemma for Canon user - do I buy a M43s body & which one?

[goinggreynow]

I can probably already guess the consensus answer to this but just wanted to ask for any thoughts. About 5 years ago, i purchased a Minolta XD7 with Sigma 28-75 and a 70-210 MD F4 lens. I put a couple of rolls of film through it but it's been sitting in a box since then. However, I cannot get over the desire to use the 70-210 as an adapted lens on a digital body and have a good "play" with it. The problem is that I am a Canon user and don't want to use an adapter with a glass element.
As I see it, I probably have 3 options; first buy an old G1/G3 (but no focus peaking). Second, buy a used G6 (focus peaking). Third, wait for prices to fall and go for a G80/GX80 which also gives IBIS and would possibly give me the added option of using the combo for motor racing. I'm very aware that buying any M43s kit would be in addition to my Canon gear which, at the moment, I have no intention of selling. I appreciate that I'm basically considering spending cash on a body just to use an old lens. Not terribly sensible unless I get into the M43s system and perhaps even have it replace our second camera - a Sony RX100 mk3.
The most sensible option though is probably to sell the Minolta and the 2 lenses, thereby removing any lingering desire to use a manual lens.
If someone could talk some sense into me, then it would be very much appreciated. Thanks. And by the way, although I mention Panasonic G series cameras, I would be happy to consider the Olympus equivalent.

 

[woof woof]

You do know that Micro Four Thirds is a x2 crop system so the field of view would double? That may put you off or it may be a good thing, it's up to you.

Other than that if you feel the need to play with these lenses, why not? A few years ago I was pretty much addicted to using a 50mm f1.8 (100mm FoV) lens on my Panny G1 but these days my most used manual lens on MFT is again a 50mm but this time a macro and I use the rest of my manual lenses on my (FF) Sony A7.

I don't know if the lack of peaking should be a deal breaker but I suppose it depends on the subject and how long you have to focus. If you will have time to focus accurately then maybe the magnified view is enough and if so something like a G1 or G2 could well be a not too expensive way of enjoying these lenses.

Another way to proceed could be to have a mix of lenses. You could for example have an auto focus kit lens type zoom and an AF fast prime for general use and to maybe replace your 2nd camera and you could use your manual lenses for fun and lesser used focal lengths.

PS.
Just a quick note on image quality.
I'd say that the G1 is excellent at maybe ISO 100-400, perfectly useable at ISO's above 400 to something like 1200 and usable above that with care. The latter GX80 is much better at the higher ISO's and has noticeably better dynamic range.

 

[dizidav]

There are lots of YoUtube videos on adapting MD lenses to EOS, its not a reversable adaptation, it would depend a lot on whether the lens is one of the Rokkor ones, if its a Sigma I woldnt bother, just sell the kit on. just my 2penny worth.

PS I use a lot of legacy lenses with a 5D11 and have modified a MD lens to EOS, takes a bit of time and demands some engineering skills.

 

[woof woof]

There are lots of YoUtube videos on adapting MD lenses to EOS, its not a reversable adaptation, it would depend a lot on whether teh lens is one of the Rokkor ones, if its a Sigma I woldnt bother, just sell the kit on. just my 2penny worth.

PS I use a lot of legacy lenses with a 5D11 and have modified a MD lens to EOS, takes a bit of time and demands some engineering skills.

I think that the time/effort/cost of getting a Rokkor to work on a Canon could be prohibitive and it's worth looking at the cost of replacement equivalent Olympus Zuiko lenses which would fit straight on to a Canon with a £5 adapter. If the Oly lenses are cheap as some of these zooms tend to be I wouldn't waste 5 minutes modifying a Rokkor. YMMV and of course doing it could be the fun and the hook.

 

[Alastair]

The MD 70-210/4 is a nice lens - the results I've had from mine stand up well alongside more modern zoom lenses. I use mine with a Fuji X-E2, and the Fuji X-series gives you an APS-C option alongside the full-frame Sony A7 series and m4/3.

If you can find a Fuji X-A2 for under £200 (don't pay more than that) it should do you nicely with an adaptor.

You'll probably want to track down an MD 35-70/3.5 to use alongside it!

 

[goinggreynow]

You do know that Micro Four Thirds is a x2 crop system so the field of view would double? That may put you off or it may be a good thing, it's up to you.

Other than that if you feel the need to play with these lenses, why not? A few years ago I was pretty much addicted to using a 50mm f1.8 (100mm FoV) lens on my Panny G1 but these days my most used manual lens on MFT is again a 50mm but this time a macro and I use the rest of my manual lenses on my (FF) Sony A7.

I don't know if the lack of peaking should be a deal breaker but I suppose it depends on the subject and how long you have to focus. If you will have time to focus accurately then maybe the magnified view is enough and if so something like a G1 or G2 could well be a not too expensive way of enjoying these lenses.

Another way to proceed could be to have a mix of lenses. You could for example have an auto focus kit lens type zoom and an AF fast prime for general use and to maybe replace your 2nd camera and you could use your manual lenses for fun and lesser used focal lengths.

PS.
Just a quick note on image quality.
I'd say that the G1 is excellent at maybe ISO 100-400, perfectly useable at ISO's above 400 to something like 1200 and usable above that with care. The latter GX80 is much better at the higher ISO's and has noticeably better dynamic range.

Thans Alan. Yes - very aware of the x2 crop. Given my normal camera usage, I would be using the combo mainly for motor racing! The older G1/2/3s are most attractive from a price viewpoint, but I can't help thinking that if I went all the way to (say) a G80/GX80 then I would have the added benefit of a possible replacement for our Sony RX100 (The Panny plus a small prime lens, perhaps?).
The flip side is, of course, that I'd be shelling out a whole load more money and be getting deeper into two systems and before long would be buying a quality walkabout zoom for the Panny!

There are lots of YoUtube videos on adapting MD lenses to EOS, its not a reversable adaptation, it would depend a lot on whether the lens is one of the Rokkor ones, if its a Sigma I woldnt bother, just sell the kit on. just my 2penny worth.

PS I use a lot of legacy lenses with a 5D11 and have modified a MD lens to EOS, takes a bit of time and demands some engineering skills.

Thanks David. I appreciate the potential cost advantages of adapting and using my 80D but am not sure that I want to go down this route.

The MD 70-210/4 is a nice lens - the results I've had from mine stand up well alongside more modern zoom lenses. I use mine with a Fuji X-E2, and the Fuji X-series gives you an APS-C option alongside the full-frame Sony A7 series and m4/3.

If you can find a Fuji X-A2 for under £200 (don't pay more than that) it should do you nicely with an adaptor.

You'll probably want to track down an MD 35-70/3.5 to use alongside it!

Thanks, Alastair. A couple of years ago I had a Fuji XM-1 and although it was a great camera, I just couldn't get on with the lack of a viewfinder.

Incidentally, how do you find the XE-2? Do you have any experience of trying to capture photos of the children running around (grandkids in our case)? With the right AF lens (not my MF Minolta 70-210!), is focus acquisition fast enough for this sort of photography?

Thanks, all.
Stuart

 

[Alastair]

Incidentally, how do you find the XE-2? Do you have any experience of trying to capture photos of the children running around (grandkids in our case)? With the right AF lens (not my MF Minolta 70-210!), is focus acquisition fast enough for this sort of photography?

My hit-rate with fast moving subjects isn't as good as it was when I was shooting with a DSLR, but it definitely improved with the v4 firmware upgrade. I don't really shoot that type of subject often enough to get the various tracking modes sorted in my head so it's probably user error as much as anything else. But it does well enough for me with the 55-200mm..

 

[woof woof]

but I can't help thinking that if I went all the way to (say) a G80/GX80 then I would have the added benefit of a possible replacement for our Sony RX100 (The Panny plus a small prime lens, perhaps?).
The flip side is, of course, that I'd be shelling out a whole load more money and be getting deeper into two systems and before long would be buying a quality walkabout zoom for the Panny!

I'd keep an eye on prices as real bargains crop up for example the GX80 was on sale for a ridiculously low price a while ago and of course some of the lenses can be found used for very reasonable prices especially the Panasonic 14mm f2.5, 20mm and 25mm f1.7 and Olympus 25 and 45mm f1.8.

Personally I'd avoid the models affected by shutter shock. The electronic shutter is one fix but it creates other problems such as banding under some flickering lighting and deciding what lens can be used with what body and at what shutter speed is just more trouble than the gear is worth. IMO. A G1 or G2 (I had no shutter shock issues at all with my G1) or either a GX80 or G80 would be fine though as they have the new shutter. I'd stay clear of the known to be shutter shock affected GX7, GX8 and G7, dunno about other models.

 

[goinggreynow]

My hit-rate with fast moving subjects isn't as good as it was when I was shooting with a DSLR, but it definitely improved with the v4 firmware upgrade. I don't really shoot that type of subject often enough to get the various tracking modes sorted in my head so it's probably user error as much as anything else. But it does well enough for me with the 55-200mm..

many thanks for the additional info.

I'd keep an eye on prices as real bargains crop up for example the GX80 was on sale for a ridiculously low price a while ago and of course some of the lenses can be found used for very reasonable prices especially the Panasonic 14mm f2.5, 20mm and 25mm f1.7 and Olympus 25 and 45mm f1.8.

Personally I'd avoid the models affected by shutter shock. The electronic shutter is one fix but it creates other problems such as banding under some flickering lighting and deciding what lens can be used with what body and at what shutter speed is just more trouble than the gear is worth. IMO. A G1 or G2 (I had no shutter shock issues at all with my G1) or either a GX80 or G80 would be fine though as they have the new shutter. I'd stay clear of the known to be shutter shock affected GX7, GX8 and G7, dunno about other models.

Many thanks Alan. I had read about shutter shock and was looking to avoid any cameras where owners/reviewers had mentioned it as being a problem. Probably the best thing to do is either go used (earlier G series) or wait for the next Panny cashback deal. Average prices for a G80 (body only) seem to have fallen a little over the last couple of months.

 

[Alastair]

The budget level you're suggesting would easily include a refurbished X-T1 or X-E2S - you get the EVF, gain on the larger APS-C sensor, and only lose out on the IBIS vs. m43.

 

[redlion]

Just a heads up that the GX80 is currently on the Panasonic eBay store with kit lens for £399 with full warranty. This the best price since the cashback deals ended.

 

[woof woof]

Just a heads up that the GX80 is currently on the Panasonic eBay store with kit lens for £399 with full warranty. This the best price since the cashback deals ended.

That's a good price but that lens... the lack of a focus ring just kills it stone dead for me. Can always just throw the lens in the bin at that price though.

 

[redlion]

The lens isn't the greatest but being small could replace the point and shoot camera mentioned albeit a decent one in the RX100 which is what I'm thinking of doing for 'snap' mode and then get other glass to make the setup realise it's full potential.

 

[woof woof]

The lens isn't the greatest but being small could replace the point and shoot camera mentioned albeit a decent one in the RX100 which is what I'm thinking of doing for 'snap' mode and then get other glass to make the setup realise it's full potential.

It's not that I think the lens is bad as I don't. I've not used one and the reviews seem good enough but for me that lens would be too frustrating and I'd end up throwing it against a wall. I suppose it depends on what you shoot and how much frustration you can take before you snap and go postal but the first time that lens focused on the wrong thing or failed to lock at all and I reached for the focus ring... there'd be violence.

It's just not for me. If they gave me one free I'd throw it away.

The 14-42mm Mega OIS can't be all that much bigger and it has a focus ring... great for focusing on what you want to focus on when the camera can't... for example, through glass when the camera may focus on the glass, through fences and foliage, in rain, fog and other camera confusing situations the list goes on and then there's hyperfocal and zone etc. It needs a focus ring.

I know some cameras give you a touch screen focus slider thingy but I don't care.

 

[goinggreynow]

Contemplating a G3 with 14-45 (I believe this was the kit lens before the 14-42). My only concern is that from photos, the G 3 seems to have a completely different grip and shutter button position than the earlier cameras. ALAN - just wondering if you might have an opinion on this. Thanks.

 

[woof woof]

I've only handled a G3 once when thinking about buying one. I was ok with the handling but I like smaller kit, be warned though that the grip is much reduced so if you need / like a bigger grip this camera might not be for you. With a small prime I suppose the smaller grip will make it seem like a smaller package, which might be an advantage. Thinking about it although I was ok with the handling of the G3 I think that my G1 was the best handling camera I've ever had.

Ref the 14-45mm. It's reportedly better built and better optically than the cheaper 14-42mm that replaced it and it has a IS switch which the 14-42mm doesn't have but you can obviously switch IS on/off on the camera. I had the cheaper and not so good 14-42mm and I had no complaints at all so my advice is to go for the 14-45mm but if you spot the cheaper and less well thought of 14-42mm at a bargain price go for it. With any of these lenses you get the in camera magical corrections so they'll be pretty much distortion and optical nasty stuff free and I found the 14-42mm good enough to use from wide open.

 

[goinggreynow]

I've only handled a G3 once when thinking about buying one. I was ok with the handling but I like smaller kit, be warned though that the grip is much reduced so if you need / like a bigger grip this camera might not be for you. With a small prime I suppose the smaller grip will make it seem like a smaller package, which might be an advantage. Thinking about it although I was ok with the handling of the G3 I think that my G1 was the best handling camera I've ever had.

Ref the 14-45mm. It's reportedly better built and better optically than the cheaper 14-42mm that replaced it and it has a IS switch which the 14-42mm doesn't have but you can obviously switch IS on/off on the camera. I had the cheaper and not so good 14-42mm and I had no complaints at all so my advice is to go for the 14-45mm but if you spot the cheaper and less well thought of 14-42mm at a bargain price go for it. With any of these lenses you get the in camera magical corrections so they'll be pretty much distortion and optical nasty stuff free and I found the 14-42mm good enough to use from wide open.

Just a brief, update. Having swayed between a G1/2/3, Olympus OMD EM5 and going to the other extreme with a G80, I went into my local camera shop today and walked out the proud owner of a really nice condition G3. I was vey conscious of Alan's comments re the size of grip and was pleasantly.surprised that the G3 felt OK. I suppose, though, that I am comparing it to my Sony RX 100 and not my Canon 80D!

Now all I need is a Minolta MD to M4/3 adapter and would be very interested to hear any thoughts as to whether I would benefit from buying a more expensive adapter. Any specific recommendations from fellow members who actually have an M4/3 adapter (not neccessarily for an MD lens) would be very much appreciated.

Also, any thoughts as to my best bet for a wide prime? I assume it's either the Penny 17mm or Olly 20mm. As far as I can see, neither has IS.

Thanks in advance

 

[maarten.dhaese]

Olympus 17 f/1.8 if it's in your budget.
Panasonic 20 f/1.7 MkI or MkII otherwise.

Both are really good but I prefer the Olympus lens; please note I use mainly Olympus bodies. AF with the Oly 17 f/1.8 is noticeably faster than with the Panasonic 20 f//1.7 MkI.

IS is not a must at this focal length and with a wide aperture of f/1.7 or f/1.8 in my experience. Just make sure your shutter speed is 1/60 or faster.

 

[woof woof]

Now all I need is a Minolta MD to M4/3 adapter and would be very interested to hear any thoughts as to whether I would benefit from buying a more expensive adapter. Any specific recommendations from fellow members who actually have an M4/3 adapter (not neccessarily for an MD lens) would be very much appreciated.

Also, any thoughts as to my best bet for a wide prime? I assume it's either the Penny 17mm or Olly 20mm. As far as I can see, neither has IS.

Thanks in advance

I have some cheap evil bay adapters that cost £10 or less and I also have some Novoflex adapters that cost something between £90-100 each. The Novoflex adapters look lovely and they do look and feel more expensive but I have to say that the cheap adapters work just the same and I've not had a problem with any of them. The cheap ones may not be milled from a block of magnesium or whatever it is by a German engineer but whoever is pressing the button on the CNC machine in China seems to be doing it right and for a much lower price. The smart money says get the cheap adapter as they seem to work just as well.

On lenses, do you mean as pointed out by Maarten the Olympus 17mm f1.8 and Panasonic 20mm f1.7?

I had the 20mm f1.7 for years and I was happy with it but be aware of a couple of issues, it's relatively slow to focus and it can, and bizarrely, cause noise banding at high ISO's. The Olympus 17mm f1.8 is a very nice lens, as Maarten says it's faster to focus than the Panasonic lens, it's metal and it has a nice snap focus mechanism and when you use it you get lens markings and end stops! Wonderful! Some think that the Panny 20mm is sharper but IMO we shouldn't be pixel peeping MFT shots too much. I sold my Panasonic 20mm and have the Olympus 17mm now. The Panasonic does have a couple of advantages, it's possibly a bit sharper and it's a bit more compact than the Oly 17mm.

 

[goinggreynow]

Olympus 17 f/1.8 if it's in your budget.
Panasonic 20 f/1.7 MkI or MkII otherwise.

Both are really good but I prefer the Olympus lens; please note I use mainly Olympus bodies. AF with the Oly 17 f/1.8 is noticeably faster than with the Panasonic 20 f//1.7 MkI.

IS is not a must at this focal length and with a wide aperture of f/1.7 or f/1.8 in my experience. Just make sure your shutter speed is 1/60 or faster.

Thanks for your comments, Maarten.
Do you have any expereince of using the less expensive Olympus 17 F 2.8 pancake lens?
Stuart

 

[goinggreynow]

I have some cheap evil bay adapters that cost £10 or less and I also have some Novoflex adapters that cost something between £90-100 each. The Novoflex adapters look lovely and they do look and feel more expensive but I have to say that the cheap adapters work just the same and I've not had a problem with any of them. The cheap ones may not be milled from a block of magnesium or whatever it is by a German engineer but whoever is pressing the button on the CNC machine in China seems to be doing it right and for a much lower price. The smart money says get the cheap adapter as they seem to work just as well.

On lenses, do you mean as pointed out by Maarten the Olympus 17mm f1.8 and Panasonic 20mm f1.7?

I had the 20mm f1.7 for years and I was happy with it but be aware of a couple of issues, it's relatively slow to focus and it can, and bizarrely, cause noise banding at high ISO's. The Olympus 17mm f1.8 is a very nice lens, as Maarten says it's faster to focus than the Panasonic lens, it's metal and it has a nice snap focus mechanism and when you use it you get lens markings and end stops! Wonderful! Some think that the Panny 20mm is sharper but IMO we shouldn't be pixel peeping MFT shots too much. I sold my Panasonic 20mm and have the Olympus 17mm now. The Panasonic does have a couple of advantages, it's possibly a bit sharper and it's a bit more compact than the Oly 17mm.

Thanks, Alan.
If I may, can I ask you the same question (as posted to Maarten) re suitability or otherwise of the less expensive Olympus 17mm F 2.8 pancake. By any chance, have you used this lens?
Although I have purchased the G3 mainly to have a play with old MF lenses, I would like the option of taking shots of the grandchildren - hence a (fast-ish focussing) prime lens. Given the difference in focus speed, I'm guessing this nudges me towards the Olympus lens.
The only other option I can see is a 19mm offering from Sigma (only just noticed this).
Thanks
Stuart

 

[woof woof]

Sorry, I've never used the 17mm f2.8.

How about the Olymous 25mm f1.8? They seem to crop up at reasonable prices quite often and there's the Panny 25mm f1.7 which is cheap new. 25mm is a bit longer but they are cheap.

 

[goinggreynow]

Sorry, I've never used the 17mm f2.8.

How about the Olymous 25mm f1.8? They seem to crop up at reasonable prices quite often and there's the Panny 25mm f1.7 which is cheap new. 25mm is a bit longer but they are cheap.

Thanks Alan.
Have used a 24mm on my Canon 80D and even that is a bit of a tight view sometimes for indoor photos of the grandchildren. 25mm on 4/3 would give me an even narrower fov so that's why I'd be looking in the 17-20mm range.
My real hope is I enjoy using an 4/3 camera and decide not just to use it primarily for a couple of old MF lenses. I can't see it ever replacing my 80d for motor sport but it might just be the answer to my ongoing issuings getting comfortable with a small compact.

 

[woof woof]

I'm not into action photography but I see your point and maybe you'd need to go for the high end and expensive MFT models to get that sort of action shooting perfornance but for static and gentler uses I think that MFT might give an APS-C Canon a big scare in a fight over image quality.

Sadly though the wider than 17mm MFT options tend to cost more but I used to have a Panny 14mm f2.5 and I don't remember that being a slouch focus speed wise, and they crop up quite cheap. It may be worth adding that to the list of possible buys and reading a few reviews to see if there's a mention of focus speed. It's a tiny lens too.

 

[maarten.dhaese]

Thanks for your comments, Maarten.
Do you have any expereince of using the less expensive Olympus 17 F 2.8 pancake lens?
Stuart

Sorry I haven't used the Oly 17 f/2.8 either. Here is a review from someone who does quite in-depth lens tests: http://www.photozone.de/olympus--four-thirds-lens-tests/468-oly_17_28. Based on this review, I would opt for the Panasonic 20 f/1.7 MkI instead as they are in a similar price range second hand. Also, you have to keep in mind that high ISO is not where m4/3 will typically shine compared to what you get with DSLR so I'd rather have faster glass if possible. The 20 f/1.7 MkI is very light and compact. I only sold it because the Oly 17 f/1.8 has faster AF and slightly better image quality (to my taste at least).

 

[goinggreynow]

Final thanks to both Alan & Maarten.
You've both given me some very helpful advice and guidance which has been very much appreciated.
It's over to me now and provided I'm comfortable using the G3 body, initially with my MF lens, I'll then look to purchase one of the primes mentioned above.
I don't think there's any reason for me to post on this thread again.
Thanks