Metering help

Midland Red

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Cliff
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Hi - apologies if this has been covered previously (probably has, I know)

I like to visit car rallies, to take purely record shots of the vehicles (mainly for a couple of forums I'm involved with), no "arty" shots involved in the main with these

I can walk around and take a whole host of photos, which seem to be well exposed, except where there is a white or very light coloured vehicle

What should I do in future to avoid horrendously underexposed images where these "light" vehicles are involved - what metering mode is best to deal with this, and should I be +/- ing exposures?

Thanks in advance, and apologies for another basic photography question from a very basic photter!

Cheers!
 
It doesn't really matter what type of metering you use, they will all try to expose white as mid grey.

You will need to use exposure compensation to increase the exposure or decrease the exposure in the case of dark/black cars.
 
You can shoot in RAW and adjust the exposure afterwards to compensate.

Or you can take some sample shots that you are happy with, check the settings for ISO, shutter speed and aperture. Then switch to manual mode, use the same fixed settings for all future shots. If the lighting conditions change significantly (e.g. cloud cover, shade etc), then you may need to adjust to compensate as you go. Just review the photos as you take them and judge by the histogram if required.
 
You can shoot in RAW and adjust the exposure afterwards to compensate.
I wouldn't generally recommend this method... other than that, the previous suggestions are all good (EC, Manual). Another (often quicker) option is to meter a more neutral scene off to the side and lock the exposure using the AE-L/AF-L button (set to only lock exposure in the menu).
 
One tip I learnt from a retired pro is grass and tarmac are about 18% grey-meter of them and lock the exposure.
You could always splash out on a light meter!
 
One tip I learnt from a retired pro is grass and tarmac are about 18% grey-meter of them and lock the exposure.
You could always splash out on a light meter!
+1 for this.
Matt
 
Exposure compensation is probably the solution.... knowing how much comp to dial in, the art.

Matrix metering on modern cameras is an awful lot smarter than the pretty crude Center Weighted Average of old Auto-Exposure systems, that were based on the presumption that 'most' scenes average out to 18% grey, hence would tend to under-expose lighter/brighter/whiter scenes or subjects... [bisto-moment] It was probably my first real lesson in photography, aged about 11, when I went skiing for the first time, and chap at the min-lab explained how to use the ASA selector to 'fool' the meter into thinking that the camera needed more light by telling it I had loaded slower film than I actually had.. ie exposure compensation! Top tip, b-u-t... took a LOT of film before I learned where/when/how much compensation was best...

Suggestions of metering off grass, or tarmac or grey-card... are an old trick to make a through-the-lens 'reflected' light meter, that is seeing the light that is reflected off the subject, record something 'like' you would get from an 'ambient' light incident meter reading taken from the light falling 'on' the subject at the subject, with a hand-held incident light meter.... and the trick is pretty reliable... b-u-t you have to know the difference between incident metering and reflected metering, and where either may be more or less useful... which leads into such techniques as spot-metering, and getting bogged down in an awful lot of technical, that modern evaluative matrix systems are attempting to mimic with expert-programming.

Essentially, an incident reading measures the light falling on the subject. Take that reading, make shutter/aperture/ISO settings based on it, and you 'should' get a pretty 'faithful' exposure, in which dark records dark, light records light, and mid-tomes in the middle, regardless of how light or dark they actually are.... b-u-t... a black cat in a coal-hole will come out very very dark.... as pretty much all of your scene is in the shadows, and very little of the light falling on the scene you point the camera at will be being reflected at the camera. Conversely; a white rabbit on a ski-slope will go the other way; same ambient light, same exposure settings, but subject will reflect a heck of a lot more light, so your picture will come out very bright. Now, taking 'reflected' light readings, at or in the camera of the actual light that's getting to it, will give you a less 'faithful' image, as the meter will offer an exposure value or suggest shutter/aperture/ISO settings, based not on how much light is falling on the scene, but being reflected.. now your black-cat-in-a-coal-hole will tend to come out grey, the meter seeing less light, so brightening up the overall exposure assuming that it should, on average be aprox 18% grey.. again conversely, your white rabbit on a ski-slope will reflect a lot more light, and the suggested exposure will ted to tone that too down to grey, on the assumption that that's what it should average out to.. back-to-bisto, that's where my first Ski-trip shots went, lots of very bright white snow being rendered down to mid-grey and people on the slopes being darkened into shadow, by meter seeing a lot more light than normal, and assuming it 'should' all be grey...... B-U-T..... turn slightly to the left, now the woods are the back-ground, not the slope, and dark woods make the meter go the other way., and white slopes start blowing....

Which begs consideration; or exposure centering, and the dynamic range.... ie not just getting an exposure thats good for the mid-tones, but one that retains shaddow detail and keeps high-lights from 'blowing' which may not be possible.. you may have to sacrifice some shadow detail to top highlights blowing out, or accept some highlights blowing out to get some shadow detail, and in either case, the mid-tones going off center a bit.... this was a 'problem' with film, but is even more so with digital that doesn't often offer the same 'latitude' that film does, to cover both ends and the middle.. but still.... point i, there s no such thing as a 'correct' exposure, just good-enough and not so good ones, and in between 'better' or 'worse' ones; it's very subjective, and down to what you thought 'best' not the meter, which is merely a guide!

Shooting rally-cars..... you don't say whether they are in action or not.... 'walking around' does imply static padock shots, rather than track-side though. In 'action' I would tend to take meter readings 'through the lens' before a car comes through the stage; those meter readings, would be TTL 'reflected' readings, but of the scene before a car slid into it, and with likely grass, mud gravel as the main scenery, mimick a grey-card reading, and/or be close enough to the metering needed when the car came through... I would be aiming to drop shutter speed and 'pan' with the vehicle to get the back-ground and wheels to show some blur, while I got the car crisp, so would probably take the reading I got as pretty indicative of the scene as a whole; pick the shutter wanted to get some panning blur, and an aperture to keep the car in the DoF zone as it came through, and 'lock' the settings there.. if it was a black car... it may come out a tad dark... if a white one, a tad bright..... but it would be reasonably 'faithful'... and I wouldn't expect there to be uch difference if I shot i Aperture or Shutter priority or even full-auto, and let the TTL meter adjust for reflected light as the car came through.... unless..... the scene was peculiarly bright or dark, and or I was framing very tight on the car.hence a large expanse of back-ground threw the metering off, or filling frame with subject, excluding that back-ground did likewise.... and we are back to the 'art' of knowing where/when/how-uh.

Walking around the parc-ferme/paddoc; panning shouldn't be an issue, car shouldn't be moving, but you cant take reflected readings off the scene without the car in it so easily, and then 'lock'. You are probably also framing tighter and filling more frame with subject, so black or white cars will likely kid the metering more into over/under exposure... you may meter off subject on a more neutral back-ground exposure lock and recompose, or guess how much exposure comp to dial in.. or you could start taking spot meter readings off the car and trying to assess the exposure range or looking at the histogram and trying to shoot to the right to avoid blowing high-lights, or or or.... faff as much as you care really!!! BUT, the answer is there is STILL no 'correvt' exposure, less still a 'perfect' one, just what you think more or less pleasing, and the meter is very very dumm.. it aint got a clue what its looking at, you do! So, if you have the luxury, Chimp it! Take a test shot, review on screen and adjust settings if you think its too dark or too bright!

There really is no one-size-fits-all answer to the question here; there are so many metering methods, incident and reflected being the two foundations, then so many more based on them, like spot metering, like CWA like 'evaluatve'; or matrix, like shooting to the right, before you translate the meter reading to exposure settings! And ALL have merit in different situations and circumstances... a-n-d to some degree, to achieve different results in the same situation/circumstance...

BUT Keep-It-Simple-Silly... you can easily disappear up your own f-stop, fretting about all the technicalities, complexities and subtleties of the matter.... remember there's no correct or perfect exposure, it comes down to what you prefer.... so f you aren't getting what you'd like, tweek it on the exposure comp dial ether way.... but, remember its subjective, and the art is in knowing where/when/how much... and just like the meter in the camera.. WE aren't looking at the scene.. YOU are, so YO have to decide how far to trust or tweek the meter's assessment.. we cant tell you.... even less, which means of tweeking is best.... Exp-Cop, Exp-Lock, off-subject metering, etc etc etc... you have to figure that out for yourself by practice, I'm afraid!
 
Wow! Thanks for all the replies, particularly the last one - a lot to read, and think about but I guess "Keep-It-Simple-Silly... you can easily disappear up your own f-stop, fretting about all the technicalities, complexities and subtleties of the matter" really sums it up!
I'll take on board what's been said, and hope to improve my output - thanks, all

PS I actually said "car rallies" and not "rally cars"! So there's not a lot of movement involved!
 
There are 2 main approaches - ignoring incident light meters for now:
1. Lock the exposure after reading off something neutral, e.g. grass
2. Use spot metering and adjust settings until the meter reads the appropriate value. Whether you do that in manual mode or use exposure compensation is up to you.

Determining the appropriate value is tricky. You can use any of the following as a crude starting point but adjust for taste and your camera:
1. If reading off grass in the same light as the subject the meter should read +/- 0
2. If reading off the palm of your hand the meter should read about +1
3. If reading off something white then the meter should read about +2 to retain some detail
4. If reading off something black then the meter should read about -3 to retain some detail.

As an alternative to spot metering you could spend a lot of time getting familiar with how matrix metering works on your camera and getting a feel for how much exposure compensation you need.
 
You can shoot in RAW and adjust the exposure afterwards to compensate.

One of my most hated bits of advice this... that people should purposly take a bad picture and fix later... But to be fair to John i think he just said it before others did as so many people offer it as a solution :( ............ because he then went on to give perfectly good advice

Or you can take some sample shots that you are happy with, check the settings for ISO, shutter speed and aperture. Then switch to manual mode, use the same fixed settings for all future shots. If the lighting conditions change significantly (e.g. cloud cover, shade etc), then you may need to adjust to compensate as you go. Just review the photos as you take them and judge by the histogram if required.

the only thing I would add is that once you ahve selected your settings for the metering you went then IGNORE the exposure meter (this is the mistake a lot make when trying this for the first time) You selected the exposure and the camera is now telling you its wrong by showing you its over or under exposed.... ignore it.. its stupid.. you chose the exposure .... as john says use the histogram :)
 
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If you have a smart phone there are a number of free light meter apps which offer incident metering. Your would hold your phone close to the car with the camera pointing away from the car and take a reading, use those settings on your camera. The apps might not be terribly accurate but once you know how much compensation you need they seem fairly consistent.
 
One of my most hated bits of advice this... that people should purposly take a bad picture and fix later... But to be fair to John i think he just said it before others did as so many people offer it as a solution :( ............ because he then went on to give perfectly good advice



the only thing I would add is that once you ahve selected your settings for the metering you went then IGNORE the exposure meter (this is the mistake a lot make when trying this for the first time) You selected the exposure and the camera is now telling you its wrong by showing you its over or under exposed.... ignore it.. its stupid.. you chose the exposure .... as john says use the histogram :)

all true...
However with digital pictures especially when shooting raw. you can capture a rather wider exposure range than you might need. so it can be advantageous to make the most of this situation.
If you "shoot to the right" that is to say over expose as far as you can with out clipping the highlights. You then produce what for most tones is an over exposed image ... but most importantly, one with the least amount of noise in the shadow regions. This will give you the greatest range of tones to play with in PP.
(Many camera makers actually do this automatically, with special settings that allow you to expand the tonal range captured. unfortunately they all have different names for this).
Neither of these methods is setting the wrong exposure and sorting it out later. Though both do require PP to establish the best finished image.

Much the same was done with film to take advantage of the available tonality.
it was usually recommended to expose for the shadows for black and white work. And shoot to retain the highlights for colour transparencies. though there were exceptions to both these "rules" depending on your intended result.
There is no such thing as correct exposure, only an exposure that captures the tonality as you want it to appear. Or one that gives you the greatest scope to achieve what you want later.
The Exposure settings produced by an incident meter gives the nearest resulting tonality compared to the reality. with all tones falling in their correct place. However when used with digital cameras it can fail to capture the best exposure for shadow regions in terms of noise. but will always set the highlights with out clipping them.
 
That's not really the craft of photography, in fact it sounds sloppy. Raw isn't meant as a get-out from paying proper attention to the initial exposure.
It is sloppy, but with potentially hundreds of cars at these events, you may only have a brief second to capture each car without people getting in the way etc. It's a "cheating" way of getting slightly better results than shooting jpg without spending more time at each car, but you will have to make up the time afterwards adjusting in post. This is why I also suggested the better method of using manual settings that does require a bit more practice and technical knowledge. Admittedly I didn't say which was the better method :)

I take lots of motorsport photos and dark or white cars also pose similar problems depending on how much of the frame they fill. Generally I follow my own advice and use manual settings for all the cars coming through one corner for a race/session, but sometimes if the light is changing a lot (e.g. cloud/sun/cloud/sun every few seconds) and you are taking photos across a 180 degree range (coming towards you, panning when parallel and going away from you), then the manual exposure method can give more unreliable results needing more work in post and can result in blown highlights from windscreen reflections etc. In this instance I'll shoot in raw and adjust afterwards in post if required. Mostly I would need increase exposure of a white car by about 1/3 to 1/2 a stop in post, which isn't a big problem. I'd rather have a usable shot of a unique moment (rally cars only go past you once) with the loss of some shadow/highlight detail that I can improve in post.
 
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