Medium Format

Sir SR

Sir SR

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Shaheed
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Hi good people

Have been toying with the idea of a a film medium format camera for a while. Never really shot film as I started as a total noob just over 5 years ago with digital. I know, a bit back to front.

Particularly liking @manda and @gazmorton2000 work.

I shoot with a d800/d750 normally but there's something about medium format film that has got me curious.

No room/inclination to have a dark room/self develop. Would like the ability to make some adjustments in LR. I'm a total film novice.

It will mainly be people that I'm taking pics of and would love to be able to use my lencarta lights if possible too.

All help/suggestions are greatly received.

Thanks

Shaheed
 
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Hi Shaheed,

What kind of budget are you thinking as this will definitely impact your choices. The choices are huge and you will get as many suggestions as there are choices I suspect.

Andy
 
I think as it's my first forray into it, I don't want to spend a fortune.

Also I guess I may need some way of scanning negs(?) onto the computer too and find somewhere to develop.

I Iike the idea of having the better DR/resolution and generally the "feel" of a film shot.

Didn't have a specific budget in mind as I don't really know the costs involved. I guess of want to know a budget/average and splurge option with relative merits/trade offs.

Guess I'd start at around 400??
 
Hi Shaheed, the first questions will be;

1) What budget do you have? There are a wide range of medium format options ranging from £20 for a basic folder up to £1000's for Hasselblad/Contax kit

2) Do you have a preference for negative size? generic medium format film is 60mm (ish) high so all MF cameras shoot a variation of 6 x something. 6x6 is a square image from cameras like Hasselblad 500's or Twin Lens Reflex (TLR), 6x4.5 is a standard rectangle from Mamiya 645/Bronica ETRS etc then up to 6x7, 6x8 and 6x9 which are basically larger results. You can then also get panoramic medium format up to 6x17 although they're probably less useful for portraiture.

3) Do you have a preference for handling style? TLR's are the smallest 6x6 style and you look down on the waist level finder. SLR style cameras like a Kiev 60 have a viewfinder and are a similar size to your D800/750. You then get those that offer both a waist level finder and viewfinder option like the Mamiya 645's, Hasselblad 500's and Bronica ETR. These cameras can also offer more flexibility like interchangeable backs so you can change films mid-shoot as well as a whole range of accessories.

Just a few questions to get started :0)
 
Also, how medium format do you want to go? 6 x 4.5cm, 6 x 6cm, 6 x 7cm, 6 x 8cm, 6 x 9cm.....

Do you want a prism finder or a waist level finder?

Do you want interchangeable backs for different films?

Lots of questions to ask of yourself to begin with but we have ALL the answers :D

Andy
 
Sorry, cross-posts while I was typing! For £400 you can take your pick from a range of options. I currently shoot with both a Yashica 635 TLR which can use medium format or 35mm film (and Instax but that's my own side project!) along with a Mamiya M645. The Mamiya offers more flexibility with interchangeable lenses/viewfinder.
 
my choice would be an RB67 :-)
 
Forgot to add, with any new film camera you may be better off sending your finished film to somewhere like Peak or UKFilmLab initially for dev/scan so you can make sure that it all works properly and the results are as you expect. Nothing more annoying than buying the kit and scanning your own film and finding out you've got light leaks in the camera!

If you do want to do your own scanning, an Epson V500 will be around £100 and will deliver results that are good enough to enlarge/print for most people. If you want to go bigger you could then send individual negatives for drum scanning.
 
Sir SR said:
toying with the idea of a a film medium format camera
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The idea is a good one but…

— if you would go for a Nikon 135 format, you could use all your actual lenses
— all darkroom equipment must be compatible with MF like tanks, enlarger etc
… could be a tad more expensive

I think there are two ways to approach this:
1, pure nostalgia… this is where I am but I had all the gear to support it
2, you want to produce enlargements greater than 16x20 (which is to topper size
a 135 can do well).
Mr Bump said:
my choice would be an RB67
Click to expand...
I have the RZ!
 
Ok. This is highlighting how much of a noob I am at this!!!

I'd always thought 6x6 in my head but I suppose if there are interchangeable backs that could be good. In all honesty though I'm very naive!

Not sure about the finder....merits of each??

Sorry for the q's. Proper film virgin
 
Kodiak Qc said:
The idea is a good one but…

— if you would go for a Nikon 135 format, you could use all your actual lenses
— all darkroom equipment must be compatible with MF like tanks, enlarger etc
… could be a tad more expensive

I think there are two ways to approach this:
1, pure nostalgia… this is where I am but I had all the gear to support it
2, you want to produce enlargements greater than 16x20 (which is to topper size
a 135 can do well).

I have the RZ!
Click to expand...

To my eye there's a certain quality to medium format filmy hat you can't get with digital.

I like the idea of slowing down and being more considered.

Not to fussed about using my current lenses.

I guess I'd start with one portrait lens and a medium format camera.
 
For something like an RB67 with a prism finder and a portrait lens - imagine holding a house brick up to your eye and how long you could do that...

A waist level finder makes life more comfortable.
 
I'm guessing Shaheed is wanting the look of a larger format since he already has 35mm digital.

As mentioned already, there's actually several negative sizes deemed to be medium format and a myriad style of cameras with which to shoot, be it TLR, SLR, rangefinder etc.

I've got a Bronica ERSi which offers a very SLR like experience through its metered finder, but I've also used TLRs and old folding camera.

I think if you set a budget then you may get more feedback on different cameras/systems at that price point.
 
West Yorkshire have a few medium format cameras in stock at the moment. Even if you don't buy from them, it'll give you an idea of some of the cameras available:
They have a selection of SLRs and TLRs at present, including an MPP Microcord, which would make a good starter TLR, and a few Bronica SQ-As, which offer fantastic value and performance. The Bronica offers interchangeable backs too.
 
Deckard said:
I'm guessing Shaheed is wanting the look of a larger format since he already has 35mm digital.

As mentioned already, there's actually several negative sizes deemed to be medium format and a myriad style of cameras with which to shoot, be it TLR, SLR, rangefinder etc.

I've got a Bronica ERSi which offers a very SLR like experience through its metered finder, but I've also used TLRs and old folding camera.

I think if you set a budget then you may get more feedback on different cameras/systems at that price point.
Click to expand...



Nail on head here! I think 400 as a starting point is probably where I'm at budget wise.

Would love to be able to use my existing lencarta lights too.

It would almost exclusively be portraits.
 
skysh4rk said:
West Yorkshire have a few medium format cameras in stock at the moment. Even if you don't buy from them, it'll give you an idea of some of the cameras available:
They have a selection of SLRs and TLRs at present, including an MPP Microcord, which would make a good starter TLR, and a few Bronica SQ-As, which offer fantastic value and performance. The Bronica offers interchangeable backs too.
Click to expand...

The bronica looks the ticket, given the leaf shutter too.....I'd have to start using a light meter properly again!!

Other questions. Film - how much, where from?

If you get scans into LR, do you lose a lot of the "feel".

Am I mad for considering this and should I just stick with the d800?
 
Lights will be fine. All the good cameras (and most of the cheap ones) have a PC cord port and many like the RB have a leaf shutter so will sync at all speeds.
 
Sir SR said:
The bronica looks the ticket, given the leaf shutter too.....I'd have to start using a light meter properly again!!

Other questions. Film - how much, where from?

If you get scans into LR, do you lose a lot of the "feel".

Am I mad for considering this and should I just stick with the d800?
Click to expand...

I have a lot of experience with the Bronica SQ-A—and its siblings the SQ-Ai and SQ-B—and the Bronicas are fantastic. The leaf shutters are great and the accessory speed grip is handy (relative to other 6x6 cameras).

I don't think you lose the film look or feel with scanning. Although the results may not be exactly the same as an all analogue work flow, they're still distinct from digital. I would use a good lab for developing and scanning to start though before delving into self-scanning.

I wouldn't think you're mad for considering it, but I stopped using digital cameras a while ago, so I'm definitely a little biased.
 
Sir SR said:
I know......but thought I should ask anyway!!
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The straight answer is no. Besides all the great answers "we'll" give you for shooting film the hard (cash) fact is you'll be able sell anything you've bought for near what you pay* if you don't get on with it.

*With the proviso you don't get done.
 
Sir SR said:
The bronica looks the ticket, given the leaf shutter too.....I'd have to start using a light meter properly again!!

Other questions. Film - how much, where from?

If you get scans into LR, do you lose a lot of the "feel".

Am I mad for considering this and should I just stick with the d800?
Click to expand...

For film you roughly have 3 choices;

- E6 'Slide film' - Like Fuji Velvia/Provia and Agfa CT which is supposedly cheap Provia. Slide film was designed to be projected as once the film is developed, the colours are the right way round so look like stained glass windows. I'm a big fan of slide film but you have much less exposure latitude so you have to get it right although I use an iPhone to meter so it's not that hard ;0)

- C41 Colour - This film has an orange colour when developed and the colours are inverted when its' scanned. This film has a lot more latitude so greater margin for error. I really like Kodak Ektar 100 (colour) if I'm shooting 'negative' film.

- Traditional B&W - This is 'traditional' B&W film and is what most people on here use to develop at home although places like Peak will also develop it. Again, like C41, the resulting film is inverted so has to be scanned or printed traditionally to see the correct result.

I've always taken my scans into Lightroom and you still keep the MF 'look' which is generally shallower depth of field. And no, you're not mad but just be aware that it's a slippery slope because you can buy so much film kit for not much money!
 
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Sir SR said:
As well as some more outdoor shots, I'd like to do more things like this with film (shot on d800)


All about Sophia 55(55-366) by Shaheed Rahman, on Flickr


I just want your extra time and your……. Day 66 (66-366) by Shaheed Rahman, on Flickr

I guess I'd need a slightly longer focal length for portraits than 80mm??
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Depends on the film format but yeah for a head and shoulders shot you'd probably want something a bit longer. You can get focal length approximations between 6xX and 35mm but with different ratios after you get past 645 comparisons get a bit wooly.
 
Something like 120 to 150 for a 645
 
This is what slide film looks like with a lightbox behind it (iphone photo!);

14326075727_b6b293fa8f.jpg


This is without a direct light source

14325868960_df0fd0f6fa.jpg
 
Another question. Regarding using lights. This reflects the fact that I started on digital.

There's no way to preview the lighting set up, so if you get it wrong with film, you've ruined the whole roll.

Would it be wise to take test shots/meter with the d800 before shooting film until I become more au fait with it all?
 
That's where Polaroid comes in ;0)

Realistically yes, I'd recommend chimping with digital to get your lights right and required exposure then switch to film.
 
Ok.

What do I need to be aware of when buying the older film cameras? I've only ever bought new digital.

That last statement feels like me telling a bunch of vegetarians that all I eat is meat [emoji85]
 
We're omnivores :)

Edit, some of us use both.
 
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Sir SR said:
Another question. Regarding using lights. This reflects the fact that I started on digital.

There's no way to preview the lighting set up, so if you get it wrong with film, you've ruined the whole roll.

Would it be wise to take test shots/meter with the d800 before shooting film until I become more au fait with it all?
Click to expand...

Like Steve says either chimp or get a light meter with a flash setting and learn to use it properly. You can learn using your digital camera and then once you're confident switch to your film camera, exposure isn't quite as critical due to the film latitude and its amazing how far out you can be and still get a good image. Obviously this only helps with exposure so a digital polaroid is probably still the way to go.
 
Sir SR said:
Ok.

What do I need to be aware of when buying the older film cameras? I've only ever bought new digital.

That last statement feels like me telling a bunch of vegetarians that all I eat is meat [emoji85]
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry about that, more than a few of us have come back to film or never even started before getting our DSLRs.

I'd be inclined to buy from a dealer so you've got some comeback if the camera is faulty apart from that, make sure the lens is fairly* clear and not too scratched, ensure the timings are correct(ish)** and that there are no light leaks***.

* There will be dust in the lens they're usually 20+ years old but that won't be an issue.
** Shutter speeds were never perfect when they came out the factory add 20+ years of (non) use and they've probably drifted further out but if it fires and seems consistent then the good lady of latitude will be on side.
*** this is difficult to diagnose until you've run a film through.
 
I did a test shoot in a studio last Sunday with my D800E, Pentax 67, and Rolleiflex 2.8F. Haven't developed the film yet but I'll @ you Shaheed so you can compare.

For light tests I just used the D800E to get a rough idea how my lights would look/what I need to do in terms of controlling it.

For what it's worth, the D800E is generally sharper since it's just easier to max out the potential with digital. The Pentax/Rollei aren't far behind in terms of resolution, but scanning negs on a flatbed doesn't help. However the tones I want are already mostly there so I spend less time fiddling with sliders. Also mentally it's easier for me to concentrate with a film camera - the big viewfinder, a proper ground glass focusing screen, the lack of on-screen distraction, the rhythm imposed by the manual advance - it all adds up.
 
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FruitFlakes said:
I did a test shoot in a studio last Sunday with my D800E, Pentax 67, and Rolleiflex 2.8F. Haven't developed the film yet but I'll @ you Shaheed so you can compare.

For light tests I just used the D800E to get a rough idea how my lights would look/what I need to do in terms of controlling it.

For what it's worth, the D800E is generally sharper since it's just easier to max out the potential with digital. The Pentax/Rollei aren't far behind in terms of resolution, but scanning negs on a flatbed doesn't help. However the tones I want are already mostly there so I spend less time fiddling with sliders. Also mentally it's easier for me to concentrate with a film camera - the big viewfinder, a proper ground glass focusing screen, the lack of on-screen distraction, the rhythm imposed by the manual advance - it all adds up.
Click to expand...

I think that's a lot of the appeal. The experience of taking the shot, the big 'finder, slowing down. I think it will make it feel less clinical, more considered and inject a bit of love into the process!

Plus the larger format and shallower DOF!
 
steveo_mcg said:
I'd be inclined to buy from a dealer so you've got some comeback if the camera is faulty
Click to expand...

Strongly agree here. You won't have to pay significantly more than eBay prices, and what you do pay will be for the peace of mind/6 months guarantee.

My vote would be for £100-£150 of TLR - Yashica/Rolleicord/Autocord/Microcord/Ikoflex/etc.
 
You could even test the water with an old MF folder. There are some nice Zeiss Nettars to be had for under £50 on the bay.
 
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