Medium format musings

Andysnap

Andysnap

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Andy Grant
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The CMS or Janet as she insists on being called is considering a medium format camera. After much consideration ee believe that the best compromise for her specific requirements is one of the Fuji 645 species.
So, which one is the question. I understand that they can have an occasional electronic problem but for size, weight and image quality ee think they are the best bet.
I suggested a Rolleicord or flex but apparently that would be too 'Howard and Hilda' so thats out.
Basically your thoughts on the various types would be appreciated.

Cheers all.
 
Well up near the moors last year she could have played with my Etrs...I'd recommend that camera, but have to say I've never tried (or bothered) with other 645 cameras to see if they were better.
 
I had an ETRSi and then later, an early Mamiya 645. Out of the two, I preferred the latter. Slightly more compact and felt a little more solid in comparison. Great lenses too (as does the ETRSi)

I sold the 645 on here mainly as having tried various MF sizes, I prefer 6x6 or 6x7.
 
Andysnap said:
The CMS or Janet as she insists on being called is considering a medium format camera. After much consideration ee believe that the best compromise for her specific requirements is one of the Fuji 645 species.
So, which one is the question. I understand that they can have an occasional electronic problem but for size, weight and image quality ee think they are the best bet.
I suggested a Rolleicord or flex but apparently that would be too 'Howard and Hilda' so thats out.
Basically your thoughts on the various types would be appreciated.

Cheers all.
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What are the requirements exactly?

As I'm sure that you're aware, I've had some bad luck with the Fuji 645 cameras. We've ended up with the Lomo LC-A 120, which is what my wife now regularly carries. The Lomo is easy to use, the lens is actually pretty good, and—for a similar price as the Fuji cameras—you can buy them new with a warranty.
 
The Fuji GA645i I have is great. It's fairly easy to load. It's a P & S medium format. I have odd exposure issue but I think it's user error as I suspect I'm catching the second shutter button. I would lend it to @Mrs Snap to try but with her previous as a camera killer :eek: I dare not! Built in flash is also very handy.

The lomo LCA-20 was on my list as well. I forget why I went for the fuji. It may have just appeared under my nose at the right time.

I took it around Chirk a few months ago. I must take it around somewhere else.
 
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I had the GS645W. Fixed lens. Fabulous image quality. Pretty light , regret letting it go:(
 
Basically we have decided on a Fuji because they are comparatively light, simple to use and the image quality is excellent. Weight is a major issue, pretty much all of the older, metal 645's are too heavy. Image quality is also important as Jan needs to be happy with photos, Holga's, even the better ones will I think be ultimately disappointing . Price too is to be considered and I think that at the moment the Fuji's are comparatively inexpensive but are going up so it will not be an issue if we sell it on later.

Andy
 
Andysnap said:
Basically we have decided on a Fuji because they are comparatively light, simple to use and the image quality is excellent. Weight is a major issue, pretty much all of the older, metal 645's are too heavy. Image quality is also important as Jan needs to be happy with photos, Holga's, even the better ones will I think be ultimately disappointing . Price too is to be considered and I think that at the moment the Fuji's are comparatively inexpensive but are going up so it will not be an issue if we sell it on later.

Andy
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In terms of being light and simple to use, the LC-A 120 crushes the Fuji offerings in my experience. In terms of image quality, the Fuji is technically better, but the LC-A is no slouch, although you will need to accept some vignetting. You won't get anything wider than the LC-A anywhere near that price point in 6x6.

Both the Fuji and LC-A 120 are loaded with quirks; read up carefully on both.

A few with the LC-A 120:





 
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The negatives from the GA645 I had were easily the sharpest I've had from any of my cameras. The only reason I sold it was because I personally found it too un-engaging as they're basically point and shoot. Depending on how Janet wants to shoot that might be perfect. Also bare in mind that you can't (easily) fit filters to the GA645 so that might be an issue down the road? Regardless, their lenses are great and they're also probably the lightest 645 camera I've used.

As a recommendation though, I'd suggest a Mamiya M645J/1000. They're not too heavy, fixed backs so less to go wrong, bright WLF or can use a prism if preferred and the results from the 80/2.8 'kit' lens are excellent. They're also cheaper than GA645's so would be easier to try one out and sell it on if it didn't meet the requirements.
 
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stevelmx5 said:
The negatives from the GA645 I had were easily the sharpest I've had from any of my cameras. The only reason I sold it was because I personally found it too un-engaging as they're basically point and shoot. Depending on how Janet wants to shoot that might be perfect. Also bare in mind that you can't (easily) fit filters to the GA645 so that might be an issue down the road? Regardless, their lenses are great and they're also probably the lightest 645 camera I've used.

As a recommendation though, I'd suggest a Mamiya M645J/1000. They're not too heavy, fixed backs so less to go wrong, bright WLF or can use a prism if preferred and the results from the 80/2.8 'kit' lens are excellent. They're also cheaper than GA645's so would be easier to try one out and sell it on if it didn't meet the requirements.
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Mmm, problem with all of the more traditional 645s is that even if they are fairly light they are still bulky and obvious. Jan wants something that is traditional camera shaped and doesn't draw attention, hence the Fuji.
 
Andysnap said:
Mmm, problem with all of the more traditional 645s is that even if they are fairly light they are still bulky and obvious. Jan wants something that is traditional camera shaped and doesn't draw attention, hence the Fuji.
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In that case, definitely go with a GA645 :0)
 
Another vote for the GS645 Fuji's, I really like 645 as a format, but was somewhat put off the later model Fuji's by RJ @skysh4rk's experience with the electronic versions. Although I can see that others have had better experiences with the GAs. Recently I have been using a GS645W ( along side my Pentax 645) and have been very impressed with the image quality and the ease of use. The W is a non rangefinder, zone focus camera that punches above its weight in my view. Very light and very quiet too. The 45mm f5.6 lens might be deemed a bit slow, but as mentioned it is a great performer. Following my experience with this model I am in the market for the folding version with e 75mm lens as a carry everywhere camera. Through practice, activity and outcome (rather than conscious choice) I am finding that 645 is the format that suits me best.
 
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Thanks Nick for offering to lend me your camera. I promise not to put it in the pocket with the hole in! ;)

As Andy said, if I do get one I would want something small, lightweight, discreet and easy to use. And unlike him, I want to buy once and keep rather than buy, sell, buy again, sell.....etc :)
 
Andysnap said:
The CMS or Janet as she insists on being called is considering a medium format camera. After much consideration ee believe that the best compromise for her specific requirements is one of the Fuji 645 species.
So, which one is the question. I understand that they can have an occasional electronic problem but for size, weight and image quality ee think they are the best bet.
I suggested a Rolleicord or flex but apparently that would be too 'Howard and Hilda' so thats out.
Basically your thoughts on the various types would be appreciated.

Cheers all.
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Thanks for the suggestion David but I have been forcefully informed that this is not an option. :D

Andy
 
I have a Fuji GS645W that I bought here from Strappy in March.
I may have shot a roll of slide with it, I dunno, I've got a pile of them to get processed, or maybe its still in the camera, that's a measure of how much I like it....not much.
There is nothing wrong with it but it definitely isn't a 645 Mamiya 6, its not a camera I'm going to shoot despite the weight and faff advantages..:)
 
Apparently the one to avoid is the plain GS645 (not the GS645S or GS645W) due to problems with the bellow mechanism.
 
Still, getting something that handles like and makes rectangular images will make the outcome look like whats allready being produced. Coming from 24x36 i was disapointed in the results from a borrowed 645, when i then tried a yashica mat 124 i was sold. The handling, angle of view and the square format lended itself to images way different from what i used to shoot + many people approached me for a chat about cameras etc. :-)
 
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soeren said:
Still, getting something that handles like and makes rectangular images will make the outcome look like whats allready being produced. Coming from 24x36 i was disapointed in the results from a borrowed 645, when i then tried a yashica mat 124 i was sold. The handling, angle of view and the square format lended itself to images way different from what i used to shoot + many people approached me for a chat about cameras etc. :)
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Well Soeren if you crop a 6cm X 6cm in the darkroom or in Photoshop you are going to get 6cm by 4.5cm so don't get the bit about poor results from the 645 camera you borrowed?
 
soeren said:
Still, getting something that handles like and makes rectangular images will make the outcome look like whats allready being produced. Coming from 24x36 i was disapointed in the results from a borrowed 645, when i then tried a yashica mat 124 i was sold. The handling, angle of view and the square format lended itself to images way different from what i used to shoot + many people approached me for a chat about cameras etc. :)
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To be honest the absolute last thing my wife wants is to draw attention to herself which is why she will not have a tlr.
 
That last part was a joke.
Yes you can crop any format but still, at least I, try to compose to the format/frame used so using a 6x6 makes other subject interesting and the interpretation results in different images. To me thats one main reason the images are different from a digital or 24x36 slr the other is how the camera handles e.g. waist level vs eye level finder. People may notice the camera but still be unaware of fotos being taken, raise your camera, phone or even a brick to eyelevel and everybody is aware photos are being taken.
 
soeren said:
That last part was a joke.
Yes you can crop any format but still, at least I, try to compose to the format/frame used so using a 6x6 makes other subject interesting and the interpretation results in different images. To me thats one main reason the images are different from a digital or 24x36 slr the other is how the camera handles e.g. waist level vs eye level finder. People may notice the camera but still be unaware of fotos being taken, raise your camera, phone or even a brick to eyelevel and everybody is aware photos are being taken.
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I like my TLR too (Yashica 635), but Andy's already said that it's not an option. He's already got a Rolleicord and Mamiya TLR so Janet's also aware of their handling etc.
 
Love the reference to Howard and Hilda... "Why do we always listen to the shipping forecast Howard?". "Because it leads us nicely into the news, Hilda". Classic comedy moments (Ever Decreasing Circles)!

Anyway, best of luck choosing the right camera, and at least we know that matching cagoules will be out of the question for the F&C Lake District Meet, even if it is in November! (y)
 
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Mrs Snap said:
As Andy said, if I do get one I would want something small, lightweight, discreet and easy to use. And unlike him, I want to buy once and keep rather than buy, sell, buy again, sell.....etc :)
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In terms of small, lightweight, and easy to use, the Lomo LC-A 120 is difficult to beat. In owning or having owned many of the cameras discussed in this thread, the LC-A is about the only thing my wife will touch beside our Instax instant camera (another all automated camera). With the exception of choosing a focus distance (of which there are only a few choices), it's basically just point and shoot. There's not even a lens cap to worry about; you just slide the front cover down and that reveals the viewfinder and lens and you're ready to shoot. When finished, just slide the cover up again so the lens is covered and the shutter locked. It also only weighs 360g compared to the Fuji GA645 at more than double that (820g). It's also a lot quieter.

What is also nice about this camera is the wide angle lens; which isn't terribly common for this size of package. I shoot the normal to long shots with my camera (usually TLR) and my wife handles the near and wide with the LC-A. It means that we aren't overlapping and taking the same shots because of the differences in lenses.

The camera isn't without its quirks, but it's great as an automated medium format camera and it's great for travelling.

My wife handling the camera:

 
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Kevin Allan said:
I have a Fuji GA645Zi and it takes 52mm round filters no problem. Steve was probably referring to square or rectangular filters (Cokin, Lee, etc) which would obstruct the focus window.

I have 150 example images here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/landscapepics/albums/72157649674910697
and a review here: https://kevinthephotographer.wordpress.com/2015/03/07/first-thoughts-on-the-fujifilm-ga645zi/
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I was meaning more that, like rangefinders, the lens and viewfinder aren't interlinked so there's no control over filter placement which makes grads and polarisers difficult to use.
 
Thanks for the informative post @skysh4rk. I've not heard of this camera before so it's useful to have some good feedback on it. I'll certainly bear it in mind. If I'm going to spend a 3 figure sum on a camera, I want to get the right one for me!
 
Mr Badger said:
at least we know that matching cagoules will be out of the question for the F&C Lake District Meet, even if it is in November! (y)
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I so wish you were right Mr B. However, every time I get a new waterproof, he goes out and buys the same one :eek::rolleyes:
 
skysh4rk said:
In terms of small, lightweight, and easy to use, the Lomo LC-A 120 is difficult to beat. In owning or having owned many of the cameras discussed in this thread, the LC-A is about the only thing my wife will touch beside our Instax instant camera (another all automated camera). With the exception of choosing a focus distance (of which there are only a few choices), it's basically just point and shoot. There's not even a lens cap to worry about; you just slide the front cover down and that reveals the viewfinder and lens and you're ready to shoot. When finished, just slide the cover up again so the lens is covered and the shutter locked. It also only weighs 360g compared to the Fuji GA645 at more than double that (820g). It's also a lot quieter.

What is also nice about this camera is the wide angle lens; which isn't terribly common for this size of package. I shoot the normal to long shots with my camera (usually TLR) and my wife handles the near and wide with the LC-A. It means that we aren't overlapping and taking the same shots because of the differences in lenses.

The camera isn't without its quirks, but it's great as an automated medium format camera and it's great for travelling.

My wife handling the camera:

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But RJ is the lens as good as Fuji, Bronica, Mamiya etc as the way I look at it is:- when I lug a MF camera around it's not for snaps but something more serious and want to know I'm getting the best results that are possible for my skill level.
 
I think RJ is spot on with what Janet wants,needs and the performance of the camera is very good indeed.

The only thing that will stop you buying this for Janet is the Cachet.

Buy it Andy you know it makes sense. :)
 
Not wishing to pour cold water on the Lomo, but the killer is zone focussing. I know that Jan does not like it and would very quickly put the camera in a cupboard, never to be seen again. She likes the Nikon FG and is happy with manual focus, she has also used and enjoyed range finders so I think that one of the earlier Fuji's would suit. This would also take away any worries about dodgy electrics as there does not appear to be the same problems with the older models.

Cheers
Andy
 
Andy, Do not forget that all Manual work comes down to zone focusing.

When focusing in landscape on a subject at say f11,once the subject is set,then on then lens you wind back to the f11 mark on the lens and that may cover from 10ft to infinity. Take the shot that is zone focusing.

You are therefore in focus from 10ft to infinity,simple. :)
 
Andysnap said:
Not wishing to pour cold water on the Lomo, but the killer is zone focussing. I know that Jan does not like it and would very quickly put the camera in a cupboard, never to be seen again. She likes the Nikon FG and is happy with manual focus, she has also used and enjoyed range finders so I think that one of the earlier Fuji's would suit. This would also take away any worries about dodgy electrics as there does not appear to be the same problems with the older models.

Cheers
Andy
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A thought:- Looking at Mrs snaps shots e.g. take off...they look VG quality and sharp and unless you are going to print in the darkroom or do crops or want large prints it would seem 35mm is good enough...if you are going to post a jpg here and the time you squash say a 6X7 down, sometimes the difference is harder to see compared to 35mm (although I can see it if you look carefully and you can get more grain with 35mm)....and have shown shots in the past with a comparison of 6X7 and 35mm both at 1000px on the longest side.
Anyone interested I would find them and put them up again.
 
Re the Lomo Id say the killer might be the focallenght, 38mm on 6x6 is pretty wide so if youre not a sucker for wideangle it may not be your cup....
Another possible turnoff could be the rather strong vignetting seen on some of the images from it.
On the other hand saying youre shooting with a minigun...... eh..... sounds cool :D
From reading the weaknesses of the fuji 645's seems to be the finders size and contrast though I cant say for sure since ive never tried one.
 
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Zone focus isn't too bad when there are just the three zones. Even I've got the hang of it and I was useless at judging distances. The ones with more are more tricky. I might risk lending @Mrs Snap the agfa optima thing as that has 3 zone focus. Wasting a roll of vista isn't such a disaster. I got really good results and I was surprised at how good every shot turned out.
 
OK, thanks for your thoughts everyone.

Andy
 
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