McLaren

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paul cull-pearce

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McLaren have been stripped of their points in the 2007 Formula One constructors' championship after the outcome of the 'spygate' row.

The team was also hit with a record $100m (£49.2m) fine, which includes any prize money they would have earned from the constructors' championship.

Thats bad news...looks like Ferrari have won yet again. :razz: :thumbsdown: :bang:

Thanks,

Paul
 
Oooooh , let me think...... :thinking:

Does that mean Ferrari are going to win the Constructors Championship ???


What a surprise:shrug:
 
:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown: Sucks big time

Having Ferrari win the constructors championship is like Nikon being voted best camera manufacturer :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:
 
Pah!! Dont get your knickers in a twist guys. lets face it, who remembers a year or two down the line who won the constructors? The teams may say its important to them, and for 'high street' manufacturers like renault, it probably is, and no doubt its fairly important for the sponsors for alimited time, but are any of us actually going to consider buying a ferrari when we win the lottery just becuase they won a constructors title without a drivers title by default?? I think not.... ;)
 
Very sad day for motorsport, will take a while before I can be bothered to show any enthusiasm towards the sport again.

I hope McLaren put all their efforts into Lewis's car and leave Alonso out to hang. After all he doesn't know how to be a player!
 
Alonso is apparently looking for a move to another team at the end of the season and Jenson is rumoured to be taking his place at McLaren

The verdict sucks though, typical Ferrari being bad losers
 
Button and Hamilton both in Mclarens would rule the world!
 
Button and Hamilton both in Mclarens would rule the world!

Two British drivers in a British car.. just how it should be :clap:

Kinda shocked that they have lost all their constructor points. It is often said that Dennis places more importance on the constructor board than the driver one - bet he is well p*ssed right now.
 
I like to know where $100m (£49.2m) fine is going to go ?
The FIA dont need it, F1 is one of the richest sports in the world !

Paul
 
I like to know where $100m (£49.2m) fine is going to go ?
The FIA dont need it, F1 is one of the richest sports in the world !

Paul

Apparently they wont actually pay that amount, as the amount they would have been awared for the season, based on points, will credited against it. Though it still means the FIA [who, btw, I think will be the beneficiaries, not F1, though dont quote me on that] will end up being 49mill in credit.
 
What a bunch of toss - just as I seemed to be getting interested in F1 again.
 
Dont think Button will be in a McLaren next year, not Mr Dennis's style..... Hope he holds the forked tounged Alonso to his contract but doesn't use him and takes another gamble on one of the "stars" of the future, like he has with Lewis and Kimi before.
 
Well I'm not suprised, at least there is no points deduction or ban for Lewis, thats the main thing. Still a very sad day for the sport :(.
 
I think Button has signed a new 12 month contract to Honda. I did read in a magazine the other week that Alonso was seen taking to Renault.
 
It's good news that Lewis' points haven't been dropped though (as I understand it) he can still win and is still 3 points in the lead?
 
It's good news that Lewis' points haven't been dropped though (as I understand it) he can still win and is still 3 points in the lead?

If Lewis hadn't been driving then McLaren would have lost the drivers points as well . Kicking Lewis out of the championship would have been commercial suicide for F1 , a young Black driver is a goldmine they can't afford to lose.
 
Yet another dodgy decision made in Ferrari's favour. Apparently Ferrari has more representatives on the World Motor Sport Council than any other team. Seems to me it is Ferrari that are the cheats and no one else.
 
Ferrari are F1's "blue eyed boys" I wonder what would've happened if this row would've been the other way round, Ferrari having documents of Mclarens.

My best guess would be that there would've been a meeting, Ferrari would've thrown their toys out of the pram and probably got away with a fine, without the points stripping.

JMO ;)
 
Alonso should go to Ferrari ... :suspect: ... they deserve each other ... :razz:


Very sad day for the sport and all sports imgo ... :shrug:

carcrash.gif




:p
 
Some of you sound surprised that a French court and organisations run by Max Profit and Bernie the Bung have screwed over a British team. The only thing that could have made this outcome any more guaranteed would have been if the allegedly agrieved team had been French.
Motorsport is corrupt to it's core. It has been since before I was born. '66 Monte anyone?
There is too much money at stake and as soon as a single person controls the "rights" to anything it becomes impartial, regardless of who it is.
 
Two British drivers in a British car.. just how it should be

McLaren is part owned by Ron Dennis, Mercedes Benz, and a Dubai investment company, not really a BRITISH car.

Ferrari are one of the very few who make the car and engine so can be classed as total constructors.


There is one main aim when spying and that is not to get caught. McLaren had Ferrari documents, there is no argument about that, if they used them is debatable, but they had them and got caught, so they should be punished.
 
In 1995, the FIA banned the Toyota Team from competition for 12months, and the points gained in the 1995 World Rally Championship were taken away by the FIA. Using Illegal Turbochargers in their cars...guess who banned them...FIA President Max Mosley !!!

In 1999, the Ferrari team recorded a 1-2 result. After the race the FIA found out that both Ferrari cars had irregular and "illegal" barge-boards fitted. :thumbsdown:

In 2002, Ferrari and Ross Brawn where the team had pulled the plug on Barrichello's winning drive to let Schumacher pass at Austria. :thumbsdown:

In 2006, Schumacher stalled his Ferrari’s engine in effect bringing the session to a premature end. While Alonso was on a fast lap qualifying for pole at the Monaco Grand Prix. :thumbsdown:

Just afew things that Ferrari have got off with !!!

Paul
 
In 1995, the FIA banned the Toyota Team from competition for 12months, and the points gained in the 1995 World Rally Championship were taken away by the FIA. Using Illegal Turbochargers in their cars...guess who banned them...FIA President Max Mosley !!!

In 1999, the Ferrari team recorded a 1-2 result. After the race the FIA found out that both Ferrari cars had irregular and "illegal" barge-boards fitted. :thumbsdown:

In 2002, Ferrari and Ross Brawn where the team had pulled the plug on Barrichello's winning drive to let Schumacher pass at Austria. :thumbsdown:

In 2006, Schumacher stalled his Ferrari’s engine in effect bringing the session to a premature end. While Alonso was on a fast lap qualifying for pole at the Monaco Grand Prix. :thumbsdown:

Just afew things that Ferrari have got off with !!!

Paul

1 out of 3 against Ferrari (even then 'illegal' barge boards is a debatable fact) ...... hardly a damning indictment against the whole team is it? Not like stealing secrets!

I think it's easy to forget Ferrari brought F1 back to life with the likes of Mansell and Schumacher!

whiteflyer said:
McLaren is part owned by Ron Dennis, Mercedes Benz, and a Dubai investment company, not really a BRITISH car

Hardly a "british" team.... wasn't McLaren a kiwi?

Not like the old days of Lotus, Vanwall, BRM etc, :'(
 
McLaren is part owned by Ron Dennis, Mercedes Benz, and a Dubai investment company, not really a BRITISH car.

Ferrari are one of the very few who make the car and engine so can be classed as total constructors.


There is one main aim when spying and that is not to get caught. McLaren had Ferrari documents, there is no argument about that, if they used them is debatable, but they had them and got caught, so they should be punished.
Are the engines built by Mercedes or are the still built by Ilmor. Not sure if Ilmor are British but the factory is in Britain.

The punishement is way over the top and can only do harm to the sport. It is just the Ferrari pulling the FIA's strings yet again.

In 2006, Schumacher stalled his Ferrari’s engine in effect bringing the session to a premature end. While Alonso was on a fast lap qualifying for pole at the Monaco Grand Prix. :thumbsdown:

Paul
This one still intrigues me because the engine could still be heard running as he sat there.
 
---clip---

Having Ferrari win the constructors championship is like Nikon being voted best camera manufacturer :thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

Yay...... :clap:

Red stuff..... mmmmm ..... black stuff! :love:
 
I think it's easy to forget Ferrari brought F1 back to life with the likes of Mansell and Schumacher!
(
I think you have that the wrong way round, it was the drivers that brought Ferrari back to life. Only Schui started to kill them again.
 
I think you have that the wrong way round, it was the drivers that brought Ferrari back to life. Only Schui started to kill them again.

True to a certain extent..... but it needed a bit of faith, commitment and money to do it. Ferrari knew thery were perhaps going 'down the pan', you've got to hand it to them to know how to drag it out from where it was wallowing!

Then there's the Pedigree thing.... how many teams are still racing today that were very much alive in the fifties?

How dead was F1 before Mansell moved to Ferrari .... I for one was ready to give up on it! It was a very expensive, noisy carnival procession which only a rain soaked event made it more interesting.

Can you really blame Ferrari for all the FIA's acivities? Sometimes teams are made scapegoats where Organisations hide/bury their stupid errors (I'm talking most sports here, not just Motorsport), McLaren could be just that! There are dozens of examples where this is the case.

The bottom line mostly is just that, "the Bottom Line" MONEY! Allow all the teams a fixed and equal budget then you'll see an even-handed competition..... and perhaps some more spying :naughty:
 
This sort of thread always amuses me.
Particularly with my car/motorsport connections. :lol:

So many comments from people who only have a few facts, a lot of speculation and a whole bag full of opinions based on some strange bias.

F1 has been crap for a long time now.

The most amusing thing I see is that peopel have this hatred for Ferrari and always assume that everything they imagine about them is true no matter what.
I don't particularly like them more than any other team. But Schumi was by far the best driver of recent times at least and to take that away would be churlish. Yet other drivers get accolades for being OK.

Anyway, how come when Ferrari are caught cheating these folk want them banned from the sport and all their male offspring castrated at birth. etc..etc..
Yet when a British(???) team get caught doing something equally as bad (in reality far far worse) these same people think they should be let off and given a slapped wrist. Absolutely farcical. :lol:
They also tend to forget the times when Ferrari and a few other teams have saved the sport from situations while the rest were crying over split rubber.

Get a grip folks.


McLaren are no more British than many other F1 teams !
 
In 1995, the FIA banned the Toyota Team from competition for 12months, and the points gained in the 1995 World Rally Championship were taken away by the FIA. Using Illegal Turbochargers in their cars...guess who banned them...FIA President Max Mosley !!!
Paul

The plot is even thicker than that, isn't it?

Toyota weren't banned, TTE were. That was the Colne based company that prepared Toyota rally cars. TTE were headed by Ove Andersson. The Toyota corporation publicly proclaimed outrage that 'TTE' had cheated and sullied their name in such a way. Then employed Ove Andersson to head their F1 ambitions. He remained with Toyota until they got busted using software stolen from Ferrari.

So stealing from Ferrari is not the crime here.
Recieving stolen property from Ferrari when you are ahead of them in the championship is.
 
The most amusing thing I see is that peopel have this hatred for Ferrari and always assume that everything they imagine about them is true no matter what.
I don't particularly like them more than any other team. But Schumi was by far the best driver of recent times at least and to take that away would be churlish. Yet other drivers get accolades for being OK.

Actually I'm a big fan of Italian cars. Which is why it saddens me so much to see what Ferrari has become.
I think that there has been a fundamental shift in ideology at Ferrari since the Brawn, Byrne, Schumacher era. Which has resulted in all of the incidents of cheating that people always quote in these cases.
I think that you have entirely misunderstood the genius of Schumacher too.
When I think of all of the outstanding examples of driving skill we have witnessed from Schumi over the years....it doesn't take long. He won most of his races in the pits, thanks to the phenominal tactical skills of the Ferrari team.
His immense skill has been in psychology and attaining an almost evangelical buy in from Ferrari.
He started his F1 career by showing other drivers that he would have no qualms about ramming them off the track if they tried to pass him. Pretty soon nobody would challenge him because they didn't want to have to explain to Frank/Ron/Flav etc. why their car was on the other side of the circuit with 3 wheels, better to just get some points for second.

He convinced Ferrari to make him unconditional No.1. The importance of this is never to be underestimated (I haven't done the maths, if Alonso had been forced to let Lewis pass him at every race would he have sewn up the championship already?). Building a competition car is always a compromise. If you concentrate on building a car with characteristics to suit the style of No.1 driver and just throw the scraps to No.2 you minimise that compromise. The No.2 driver will always adapt and learn to drive the car, which is probably why they always had to hold Rubens back at the end of the season.
Ferrari also bought into creating the psychological myth that Schumi was unbeatable. Remember all those times he retired a perfectly healthy car with some cock and bull story just because he was being beaten? It's important psychologically to maintain the myth amongst other drivers that they have never beaten you, better to just get some points for second.

The Ferrari, Brawn, Byrne, Schumi combination really was a "dream team". It's just a shame that they never let things like rules or sportsmanship get in their way.
 
Who let the SHG in? (Schumi Hate Group):shake:
Those comments are typical of what I was implying. Very few actual facts that form, a very strong opinion.
Most of those comments could equally be directed at many other drivers over the years.
I worked wit ha motorsport chap who vehemently hated Ferrari and Schumi(we had a swearbox in case we used the word) yet every week he had to concede the point that he was by far the best driver out there simply because as a driver & m/sprt man he knew the actualities rather than the opinions




LOL! sorry but that did actually make me laugh out loud
Thank **** for that. I thought my time had been wasted :thumbs: :lol:
 
After reading all of that it is hard to see how anyone can argue with those findings.
Hope McLaren didn't pay their lawyer too much because they hardly had defence worth speaking of anyway.
 
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