Martin's Camera Shop - bad experience

TimSandhu

TimSandhu

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I had a bad experience with Martin's Camera Shop (MCS) in Leeds this week and I'd just like to share it so that others are aware. This is not a rant intended to marr their reputation in any way, but I want to help others to avoid the same mistake I made.

Two weeks ago, I looked on the Camera Price Buster website for a good deal on a Nikkor 85mm 1.4 and MCS showed it at £819.99. While not the cheapest, they were a shop with a premises (or so I thought) and they answered the phone promptly enough. There was a very helpful lady on the other end of the phone who explained that the item was not in stock, but that they would order it for me and let me know when it arrived. She said that it would be here in 5-10 days. I gathered that it was an import but since they said that they would honour the 12 month warranty, I decided to go ahead. All I'd have to do was contact them at the shop and they would do the rest. Sounds fair.

I explained that I would like to come and pick it up from the shop so that I could test it etc.. and the lady said that it was fine. I don't live in Leeds but I do work (and live) here during the week and having the lens would be give me something to do in the evening as opposed to watching crap tv in the hotel room.

I paid by CC. The money was taken from my account. But no email to say that it had arrived. So I rang them yesterday afternoon and was told that the lens was with them and that it was ready to be posted. I explained that in our last conversation we'd agreed that I would pick it up... I was told that the shop was being refurbished and that I would have to collect it from a private address (presumably their home office). Directions were supplied.

The lady then explained that I would need to bring some sort of ID with me to prove my home address on it. Seeing as my home address is in Newcastle and all my bills go there, I was faced at having to wait a 3rd week for the lens. No ID - no lens. Exasperated, I explained that I would have to check my bags after work back at the hotel to see if I had anything on me with my home address on it.

Apparently, they have had a bit of trouble with CC fraud of late and want to protect themselves. Totally understandable. Then I thought about it. They were willing to post the lens without seeing ID, but when I wanted to go and get it in person, they wanted ID!

When I queried this by email, Martin said that he was cancelling the order as he couldn't take the risk. The tone of the email was accusatory to say the least. I got back to the hotel and it turns out I did have a CC statement on me. Elated, I quickly emailed him back saying that I had proof of address and I would even go so far as to contact my bank to verify that I was who I said I was and would he reconsider?

A bit of digging on this forum revealed a couple of similar experiences. A short while later, I dropped him an email telling saying that I understood his predicament and wanted him to proceed with the cancellation and refund my money. He didn't need the hassle and I don't need to be made to feel like I have done something wrong when I haven't. He replied this morning saying that he would refund my card this morning and that he was sure that I was genuine but he couldn't take the risk with CCs. It all ended cordially enough, but the experience left a bitter taste in my mouth and I still have no lens! And to add insult to injury, the price of the lens has gone up everywhere since I placed my order 2 weeks ago.

I have to balance this feedback with saying that not everyone has had a bad experience with MCS, but it seems that if you pay by credit card, you may run into trouble. In fact they go so far as to offer a small discount to people paying by bank transfer.
 
TimSandhu said:
In fact they go so far as to offer a small discount to people paying by bank transfer.
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Not sure if you would still want to continue to deal with them, but as your lens was with them, could you not arrange a bank transfer / cash on collection :shrug:
 
I'd always buy a new lens with a credit card. I would want to be protected for all sorts of issues, not least the seller going bust.

I guess businesses will have to think carefully about striking the right balance between protecting themselves and losing sales. Not easy I am sure.

Hope you find a lens at the right price soon.

Graham
 
Not to downplay your experience, Tim, but just for the sake of balance... I experienced the best customer service of my life from Martin's Camera Shop just over a year ago.

In brief, I placed an order for a Nikkor 70-200 which was out of stock. When the item came back into stock a couple of days later, Linda drove from Leeds to Harrogate (about 30 minutes) to deliver the lens personally AT NO CHARGE! The next day I noticed that the lens had a minor factory fault (slightly noisy focus ring), I rang them up and without any quibble at all Linda drove all the way out again and swapped it for another one.

Beat that for service!
 
Did you have your crdit card with you when you went in person? I can't see in your post one way or the other.
 
Keith,

That does sound like great service, however as shown, my experience was somewhat different to yours and I feel that I gave a balanced account.

Regardless, I most probably won't be dealing with them again. I have ordered the lens second hand from Grays of Westminster, second hand in mint condition with a 12 month guarrantee. It will be with me tomorrow.
 
Al de Man said:
Did you have your crdit card with you when you went in person? I can't see in your post one way or the other.
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Hi Al,

I did offer to bring my card with me, but it wasn't enough apparently. I never got to go in person as Martin pre-empted by stating that he was cancelling. I was due to go to collect today.

It's all irrelevant now in any case as I have bought one from GoW as mentioned above.
 
Not a great experience from me either I'm afraid. Fantastic price but same story. Lens not in stock, need to order lens, money taken straight away, 2 week wait, no lens.

In the end I got a refund which was done promptly to be fair.

I think if you're prepared to wait and not pick up the goods in person, you shouldn't have a problem.
 
Making a large assumption here, but did you not have your driving license with you?
If you have a driving license, it is a legal requirement to keep the address on it up-to-date.
(The assumption being that you are in the 80%? proportion of the country that drive)

As to being able to post it. If he were to post the item to the registered address of the card holder, then the onus would have been on the royal mail (assuming it was a signed-for delivery) to ensure that the person receiving the goods was a representative of the card-holder/named recipient. (Which is why as in another thread, it is very bad to have posties forging signatures)

It is a pity you do not have your lens, but in their defense, I can see reasons as to why this has occurred.
For example, if they are renovating, it is possible perhaps that the email about it arriving came from a different account, and got caught in spam.
 
A quick Google Maps search would have shown that their registered address was a residential one - a semi-detached house, to be exact....
 
I know FITP - hindsight etc etc... lesson learned.

My lens arrived from Grays of Westminster today (as they had promised). Incredible service. They were courteous and professional. No hassle whatsoever. Their reputation is well deserved it seems and they deliver when they say they will.
 
Byker28i said:
or as it's 22A, a flat?
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Or even a bedsit :shake:

I nearly bought a 300 f/4 from them last year as they were several hundred pounds cheaper than the more usual suppliers, but the address and a couple of reviews I read put me off.

There's a lot to be said for due dilligence- and Jessops :lol:
 
Byker28i said:
or as it's 22A, a flat?
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The address I was given for collecting the lens is not that one on the website. That is the "shop" that is being refurbished. Someone in another thread said that it wasn't a shop premises as such, rather a collection point. Probably where they take stock deliveries and operate from. They probably wouldn't want courier vans turning up outside their home if it's in a quiet residential area. Can't imagine they would be too popular with the neighbours.
 
just to come fromthe other point of view, my experiences with Martins have been nothing but positive. They've always been polite and honest
 
If in fact they are just box shifters, this would make sense. Maybe they had a ban from conducting business from their home or rented address.

I guess the title 'Martin's Camera Shop' suggests they have premises, which is why there have been varied experiences.

Still, there has to be a reason why anyone is much cheaper than the norm and perhaps you should expect there might be problems. I guess with the wild price changes, anything that is not in stock is subject to the market. If they have quoted a cheap price and have to pay more, it is quite likely that it is 'not available' at that price.

I notice Kerso only gives 24hours in which to purchase. That is realistic.

Graham

Flashman said:
Not to downplay your experience, Tim, but just for the sake of balance... I experienced the best customer service of my life from Martin's Camera Shop just over a year ago.

In brief, I placed an order for a Nikkor 70-200 which was out of stock. When the item came back into stock a couple of days later, Linda drove from Leeds to Harrogate (about 30 minutes) to deliver the lens personally AT NO CHARGE! The next day I noticed that the lens had a minor factory fault (slightly noisy focus ring), I rang them up and without any quibble at all Linda drove all the way out again and swapped it for another one.

Beat that for service!
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Flash In The Pan said:
A quick Google Maps search would have shown that their registered address was a residential one - a semi-detached house, to be exact....
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:lol:

I was up there in passing and thought I'd call in for a look, there aren't too many camera equipment shops round Leeds, so I thought I'd check em out.
I was under the impression they had commercial premises, didn't have an address but the village its supposed to be in is a blink and you'll miss it job, so I figured it wouldn't be difficult to find.
Anyway, I couldn't find Martins camera shop......:suspect:
 
Ok i emailed Martins camera shop outlining this thread and this is the reply i got
Good Afternoon,

I have just been sent a copy of the comment on the photography forum which you are referring to. Yes, we have a shop in Barwick in Elmet in West Yorkshire and we have an online side of the business. Most of our business is conducted online and people who live within reach often come to the shop to collect. Understandable really, not many people like the idea of a £1000 lens in the hands of a van driver. The gentleman who left the comment is obviously disgruntled by the fact that we asked him to produce some form of ID when he came to collect his lens. This is standard practice when anyone pays for an item online to be delivered to the credit card billing address and then at the last moment decides to pick the item up in person instead of having it posted. In hundreds of transactions of this nature, we have never had a genuine buyer refuse to provide ID. This gentleman could not provide a driving licence or a utility bill and he didn't even have the credit card that he used to pay for the item in the first place. Having lost in excess of £14000 so far this year to fraudsters did we act unreasonably? I think not.

Sorry for grumbling about this to you, but it really gets my back up when people leave these kind of comments about us and they really have no idea of the problems we have to deal with every single day to protect ourselves from the thieves out there.

Best regards,

Martin Weston (Owner)

 
blue max said:
Still, there has to be a reason why anyone is much cheaper than the norm and perhaps you should expect there might be problems.
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That's just it, they weren't even the cheapest for this lens at the time of ordering. I wasn't scouring the internet for the cheapest deals. I also wanted some peace of mind. I thought that it was indeed a "real" shop (in the conventional sense) and that I could go in and try out the lens, make sure it worked ok or take it back if there were any problems.

Got an email to say that my CC refund was being processed today. That's something at least. They could have been really awkward and taken ages over it.
 
raythefab said:
Ok i emailed Martins camera shop outlining this thread and this is the reply i got
Good Afternoon,

I have just been sent a copy of the comment on the photography forum which you are referring to. Yes, we have a shop in Barwick in Elmet in West Yorkshire and we have an online side of the business. Most of our business is conducted online and people who live within reach often come to the shop to collect. Understandable really, not many people like the idea of a £1000 lens in the hands of a van driver. The gentleman who left the comment is obviously disgruntled by the fact that we asked him to produce some form of ID when he came to collect his lens. This is standard practice when anyone pays for an item online to be delivered to the credit card billing address and then at the last moment decides to pick the item up in person instead of having it posted. In hundreds of transactions of this nature, we have never had a genuine buyer refuse to provide ID. This gentleman could not provide a driving licence or a utility bill and he didn't even have the credit card that he used to pay for the item in the first place. Having lost in excess of £14000 so far this year to fraudsters did we act unreasonably? I think not.

Sorry for grumbling about this to you, but it really gets my back up when people leave these kind of comments about us and they really have no idea of the problems we have to deal with every single day to protect ourselves from the thieves out there.

Best regards,

Martin Weston (Owner)
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Nonsense, he clearly didn't read the post. I never said that I couldn't provide the ID, I just said that it would take more time and I explained this to them ad nauseam.

Unbelievable.
 
Just did a quick search and the previous address given for Martin's (72, mill green, Leeds, West Yorkshire, LS14 5JT) is a semi-detached house, the one mentioned above comes up as being a hairdressers.......
 
It doesn't matter. I have my lens. I have my refund. I know not to buy from MCS. From now on, I will always go to a larger vendor who know how to treat ALL their customers.

Others can make their own minds up.
 
TimSandhu said:
Nonsense, he clearly didn't read the post. I never said that I couldn't provide the ID, I just said that it would take more time and I explained this to them ad nauseam.

Unbelievable.
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Im not arguing with you, i just thought he had a right to reply and thats what he said email him yourself telling him your thoughts see what he has to say:)
 
No one is arguing here Ray. Everyone has a right to reply.

This is a section where TP members can leave feedback. This is my feedback based on my experience. I have been fair. I have not made any unfair accusations against MCS. I am entitled to leave an account of my experience.

If anything, the only character that was called into question was mine.
 
TimSandhu said:
No one is arguing here Ray. Everyone has a right to reply.

This is a section where TP members can leave feedback. This is my feedback based on my experience. I have been fair. I have not made any unfair accusations against MCS. I am entitled to leave an account of my experience.

If anything, the only character that was called into question was mine.
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Whats this ad nauseam
 
raythefab said:
Whats this ad nauseam
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Wiki

Ad nauseam is a Latin term used to describe an argument which has been continuing "[to the point of] nausea".[1] For example, the sentence "This topic has been discussed ad nauseam" signifies that the topic in question has been discussed extensively and everyone involved in the discussion is sick and tired of it.
 
Warehouse Express in Norwich is a very good retailer with a very impressive showroom and I would recommend.
 
Having read through this thread I'd like to thank the OP for sharing his experience. The response by the store owner is quite revealing -

... "not many people like the idea of a £1000 lens in the hands of a van driver."?

How do the lenses get to the store?

... "The gentleman who left the comment is obviously disgruntled by the fact that we asked him to produce some form of ID when he came to collect his lens."

It seems more likely that the OP is disgruntled that this info wasn't passed on before he paid for the lens! Indeed, it would seem that the store owner is clearly digruntled by being defrauded to the tune of £14,000! I think I would be annoyed if store staff agreed to me picking up a lens, and then changed the pickup point - I'd be concerned that somebody was attempting to defraud me!

And the final comment cements my appraisal of the store owner -

... "Sorry for grumbling about this to you, but it really gets my back up when people leave these kind of comments about us and they really have no idea of the problems we have to deal with every single day to protect ourselves from the thieves out there."

The purpose of the thread had nothing to do with problems experienced by the store/staff, it was to express the problems experienced by a customer. As the store owner can't be bothered to adress the issues raised here and merely appears to want to whinge about their own problems, I'll make sure I avoid this retailer.

EDIT: Although there is the question as to why pay for the lens over the phone when you intend to go the store anyway - why not just buy the lens when you're at the store?
 
Last edited:
two points from my soap box
Mailing an item to the registered credit card address, with insurance and a signature does protect the seller and the buyer.
picking it up...not surprised that the OP was requested to produce some ID.
however, as mentioned, surely the shop could have processed a refund and then used the card and chip and pin to process the transaction in person. that protects them.
also surely they shouldn't take payment until the item is dispatched. Normally only a deposit is required if the item is on backorder.
 
Sigismund said:
EDIT: Although there is the question as to why pay for the lens over the phone when you intend to go the store anyway - why not just buy the lens when you're at the store?
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Sigi. I never intended to buy the lens over the phone. I did not VOLUNTARILY pay. I did NOT authorise payment until collection. They requested my card details when I ordered the lens. I gave them on the assumption that I would be charged UPON receipt of the goods. They charged my card before I could prove who I was or before it was delivered.

I called MCS only to check that the item was in stock. The Lady on the other end of the phone was friendly and seemed honest. She said that they would have the item the following week. They didn't as it happens. And they took my credit card details at the point of ordering. NOT at the point of delivery of said lens. If I sound frustrated, it is because I am. I'm done with explaining myself when I have not ripped off anyone.

I have received the lens from Grays. Lo and behold I have NOT been charged with credit card fraud.
 
I sympathise with the OP. This Martin guy comes across as a ****.
 
TimSandhu said:
Sigi. I never intended to buy the lens over the phone. I did not VOLUNTARILY pay. I did NOT authorise payment until collection. They requested my card details when I ordered the lens. I gave them on the assumption that I would be charged UPON receipt of the goods. They charged my card before I could prove who I was or before it was delivered.

I called MCS only to check that the item was in stock. The Lady on the other end of the phone was friendly and seemed honest. She said that they would have the item the following week. They didn't as it happens. And they took my credit card details at the point of ordering. NOT at the point of delivery of said lens. If I sound frustrated, it is because I am. I'm done with explaining myself when I have not ripped off anyone.

I have received the lens from Grays. Lo and behold I have NOT been charged with credit card fraud.
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I agree with the previous poster and will definitely stay away from this "retailer".

I didn't mean my previous edit to sound accusatory in any way, and was merely wondering why you appeared to want to pay over the phone and then pick up the lens. :) Whilst I appreciate your frustration with the retailer concerned I also think that if you post your experience on an open board such as this a certain amount of explaining oneself is to be expected. I think it's just the nature of writing down ones experience as opposed to sharing verbally. :)

I'm glad you've finally got your lens - hopefully you can put all this behind you now and enjoy taking some shots :thumbs:
 
Hmmmm.........Martins camera shop?

In brief.

I bought my 300-800 from them,it arrived and I went to the shop to pick it up,there was another guy there picking up a D3 at the same time.The shop shares the same premises as a hairdressing salon.

They said they would honour UK warranty,the lens was an import,invoice stated UK vat paid.Lens developed a small fault.They collected it in person from my house,some 60 miles away,sent it to Sigma.Sigma kept in contact with me and delivered the sorted lens back to my house.

All in all, very good service and I have bought from them since and will do so again.

So perhaps all the bloody armchair experts,with NO experience of this shop or the service they provide,could do us all a favour and keep thier asinine comments to themselves.
 
fracster said:
Hmmmm.........Martins camera shop?

In brief.

I bought my 300-800 from them,it arrived and I went to the shop to pick it up,there was another guy there picking up a D3 at the same time.The shop shares the same premises as a hairdressing salon.

They said they would honour UK warranty,the lens was an import,invoice stated UK vat paid.Lens developed a small fault.They collected it in person from my house,some 60 miles away,sent it to Sigma.Sigma kept in contact with me and delivered the sorted lens back to my house.

All in all, very good service and I have bought from them since and will do so again.

So perhaps all the bloody armchair experts,with NO experience of this shop or the service they provide,could do us all a favour and keep thier asinine comments to themselves.
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Here Here i agree:thumbs:
 
I would say most if not all shops have had a disgruntled customer its inevitable :lol:
 
Sigismund said:
I agree with the previous poster and will definitely stay away from this "retailer".
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:thinking:

raythefab said:
I would say most if not all shops have had a disgruntled customer its inevitable :lol:
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Exactly.

So,if we all stayed away from a retailer with the odd disgrunteld customer,where would we buy our stuff from?

Nobody,but nobody gets it right all the time,whatever business they are in.Somebody somewhere will always have a bad experience with any retailer.The ones that do complain about it,rightly so,but the satisfied customers generally say nothing. How on earth anyone can state that Martin comes across as a ****,whatever that may be...:D, is somewhat baffling.
 
fracster said:
They collected it in person from my house,some 60 miles away
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Much like my experience when Linda (Martin's wife I think) collected and replaced my faulty lens in person... try getting any other retailer to do that!
 
Sigismund

EDIT: Although there is the question as to why pay for the lens over the phone when you intend to go the store anyway - why not just buy the lens when you're at the store?
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There was a very helpful lady on the other end of the phone who explained that the item was not in stock, but that they would order it for me and let me know when it arrived. She said that it would be here in 5-10 days.
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The OP probably would have gone and collected if it was in stock! Maybe the shop should not have charged his CC until the item was available for collection/delivery and I would bet my high teeth the "shop" in question would not have ordered the lens unless the payment was made in full.
 
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