Martin Parr, love him or hate him?

Martin Parr love or hate?

  • love

    Votes: 48 63.2%
  • hate

    Votes: 28 36.8%

  • Total voters
    76
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....Before this thread I'd not seen Parr's name mentioned on this forum once, yet he seems to have so many loyal fans.

That could be a sign of how little 'artistic' chat there is on TP recently... we should do this type of thing more often :)

It's refreshing to be getting involved in something that's addressing the 'whys' of photography and not just another gear thread. There are a few people who aim to spoilt the argument, but all in all, it's been pretty civilised with strong opinion voiced by all comers. That's what a forum should be :)
 
That could be a sign of how little 'artistic' chat there is on TP recently... we should do this type of thing more often :)

+1

I agree. (Most) photography is art, after all. Seems natural to be discussing it here.
 
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Be interesting to see if this sort of thing could be tested. A selection of shots by Parr mixed in with some random snaps by a few five-year-olds. I wonder if the Parr work would stand out?

In my view quite a bit of the continuing/rising value of this sort of thing - Hurst, Emin, Whiteread and so forth - is down to knowing who is behind the piece. The 'worth' can be enhanced by the name, largely regardless of the standard of the work. The later work of Dennis Potter didn't come anywhere near his early stuff, for instance, but got shown because it was Potter. Had he produced Black Eyes and Cold Lazarus at the start of his career, we may not have got The Singing Detective and Nigel Barton. Hurst now produces from a virtual factory, churning his art out on a production line basis (as, of course, did quite a few of the olden days mob) For me, some of the Parr stuff is brilliant, but a lot - quite a lot ...isn't.

I wonder how much of his stuff would gain approbation if it was submitted anonymously?
 
I'm still not getting the "you don't get it" brigade. I think everyone gets it, its a bit arrogant and patronising to suggest they don't. What some 'don't get' is how he gets away with half the stuff he pawns off as art!

.

No, everyone doesn't get it as was clear from comments such as "unflattering shot" when clearly that was the point of the shot.
If the shots don't do anything for you then fine but you are missing the point that they do something for a lot of people so he is not getting away with anything.
 
After 281 posts I think I finally got it :-). First the title of the post invited more criticism that the op intended. If you put people on the spot you will get an on the spot answer. My initial impression is that of holiday snaps with a cheap compact camera. The pictures have no depth, no meaning no expressions that you can identify with people. I was trying to get a story out of the picture regardless of its technical merits.

The I decided to read more about this guy. Whether he is a member of Magnum or not bear no weight with me. I think if I understood his statements correctly, he is a populist, a documentarian. Instead of being on the war front or in a famine area documenting the suffering he looked around and found that there are a lot of opportunities around the corner. I think he wanted to document the daily life of ordinary people. For example, his book about parking spaces and the daily struggle to find one in modern cities. It is a continuous battle ( he travelled 41countries to do this-:) ). Many of his photographs depict ordinary people in their natural settings and so on.. Technically the photographs are mediocre, probably, taken with a cheap compact camera. Technicality was not his intention if i understood him correctly. He is just documenting what he saw in every day life around the corner.

If you look at the picture itself, it is awful but that is intentional. If you look at the subject as a whole he is documenting a situation at that particular moment.

So do I love him or hate him?

I' hate him.

If you ask me what I think. I can see his point and what he is trying to convey. I myself like this kind of photography. I love photographing people in their natural setting. I don't like people looking at me and smiling. I am not interested in their smile. I want them as natural as possible. I was able to achieve that in Spain. Not in England though, people here are very aware of cameras and tend to shy away and sometimes down right aggressive. Will keep trying though -:)

Note: excuse my grammar. English is not my first or second language (even. After 30 years over here -:) )
 
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That could be a sign of how little 'artistic' chat there is on TP recently... we should do this type of thing more often :)

It's refreshing to be getting involved in something that's addressing the 'whys' of photography and not just another gear thread. There are a few people who aim to spoilt the argument, but all in all, it's been pretty civilised with strong opinion voiced by all comers. That's what a forum should be :)

:thumbs:
We'd all like to see more of this sort of thread.
Thank you to those of you who have been part of it and managed to keep it polite and civil while putting your points across.
 
After 281 posts I think I finally got it :-). First the title of the post invited more criticism that the op intended. If you put people on the spot you will get an on the spot answer. My initial impression is that of holiday snaps with a cheap compact camera. The pictures have no depth, no meaning no expressions that you can identify with people. I was trying to get a story out of the picture regardless of its technical merits.

The I decided to read more about this guy. Whether he is a member of Magnum or not bear no weight with me. I think if I understood his statements correctly, he is a populist, a documentarian. Instead of being on the war front or in a famine area documenting the suffering he looked around and found that there are a lot of opportunities around the corner. I think he wanted to document the daily life of ordinary people. For example, his book about parking spaces and the daily struggle to find one in modern cities. It is a continuous battle ( he travelled 41countries to do this-:) ). Many of his photographs depict ordinary people in their natural settings and so on.. Technically the photographs are mediocre, probably, taken with a cheap compact camera. Technicality was not his intention if i understood him correctly. He is just documenting what he saw in every day life around the corner.

If you look at the picture itself, it is awful but that is intentional. If you look at the subject as a whole he is documenting a situation at that particular moment.

So do I love him or hate him?

I' hate him.

If you ask me what I think. I can see his point and what he is trying to convey. I myself like this kind of photography. I love photographing people in their natural setting. I don't like people looking at me and smiling. I am not interested in their smile. I want them as natural as possible. I was able to achieve that in Spain. Not in England though, people here are very aware of cameras and tend to shy away and sometimes down right aggressive. Will keep trying though -:)

Note: excuse my grammar. English is not my first or second language (even. After 30 years over here -:) )

Good summary, my experience over the past few days precisely too. There's much to talk about, but it's the internet and nobody cares about my opinion! ;)
 
That could be a sign of how little 'artistic' chat there is on TP recently... we should do this type of thing more often :)

It's refreshing to be getting involved in something that's addressing the 'whys' of photography and not just another gear thread. There are a few people who aim to spoilt the argument, but all in all, it's been pretty civilised with strong opinion voiced by all comers. That's what a forum should be :)

Undoubtedly one of the most interesting threads for some time :thumbs:


And dare I say it, I may be warming to him........


The big stumbling block for me has always been the idea that Art and the craft that created it can be divorced and not necessarily looked at as one.

Art without craft allows for people like Hirst and Emin to succeed, and for whatever reason, that doesn't sit comfortably with me, though bizarrely I'm a big fan of Carl Andre :)


I do wonder though, and this is a serious question, could the MP fans given any collection of twenty images, construct a plausible narrative to explain that it should be considered as a serious art piece?

I'm prompted by an earlier post where on of MP's images was interpreted in two totally different ways, which suggest as long as the viewer can attach some deeper meaning to it, it can become noteworthy.
 
There's a good chance that those that "hate" Parr are exactly the kind of people you see in his photos, setting up tripods by the pyramids and in Rome.
 
There's a good chance that those that "hate" Parr are exactly the kind of people you see in his photos, setting up tripods by the pyramids and in Rome.

Can you qualify this, please? Why is it a good chance, and why those people in particular?
 
I would like to know from the 'MP shoots carp shots' set what they consider good candid documentary photography and also who, if possible.
 
tiler65 said:
I would like to know from the 'MP shoots carp shots' set what they consider good candid documentary photography and also who, if possible.

I don't think his photos are bad, per se, just not particularly good.

But in answer to your question, I think having a subject worth documenting (be that a significant event or a tiny personal moment) helps. Who does it well? About a million event photographers.
 
No, everyone doesn't get it as was clear from comments such as "unflattering shot" when clearly that was the point of the shot.
If the shots don't do anything for you then fine but you are missing the point that they do something for a lot of people so he is not getting away with anything.

Ok, one person said that ...

I get them, I just don't get why or how he gets away with it tbh. But fair play to him , I guess.
 
I don't think his photos are bad, per se, just not particularly good.

But in answer to your question, I think having a subject worth documenting (be that a significant event or a tiny personal moment) helps. Who does it well? About a million event photographers.

I think his subjects are interesting.

Care to share some examples of others?
 
.DAVID. off to stake my claim and make my fortune after looking at his site


OK.. good luck with that. Incidentally.. the gallery entitled "cats" on you website. How are they not snapshots?



I think his subjects are interesting.

Care to share some examples of others?

There's always Juergen Teller... that'll put the cat amongst the pigeons. :)

Ok, one person said that ...

I get them, I just don't get why or how he gets away with it tbh. But fair play to him , I guess.


What exactly is he "getting away with" in your mind? Has he committed a crime, stolen something from you? Getting away with what?
 
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What exactly is he "getting away with" in your mind? Has he committed a crime, stolen something from you? Getting away with what?

Not that I need answer to you, but he's made a bundle on what I see as terrible images.
 
Not that I need answer to you, but he's made a bundle on what I see as terrible images.

But getting away with it implies he has done some wrong. The people who bought his books and go to his exhibitions don't feel they've been ripped off, so with all due respect, why do you, who has never spent a penny on anything he's every produced care?


Jealousy is an ugly trait :)
 
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Not that I need answer to you, but he's made a bundle on what I see as terrible images.

they are not terrible...........I can't see one shot where he has his finger over the lens.
 
Cagey which candid doc photographer is good though ....obviously in you opinion of course?
 
Someone posted up Images from the guy who does Cardiff, those are better IMO. There are others, I don't remember their names off hand. I'd have to google them, like most here had to on Parr.

Candid is one thing, garish is another.
 
Out of interest david. What course do you lecture? Is it a general photography, or something more specific?
 
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BA (Hons) Photography, FdA Photography & Design and BTEC Extended and Subsidiary Diploma in Photgraphy
 
Someone posted up Images from the guy who does Cardiff, those are better IMO. There are others, I don't remember their names off hand. I'd have to google them, like most here had to on Parr.

Candid is one thing, garish is another.

Have you actually looked at the set I posted earlier of some of MP's work?

I cannot see one garish shot amongst them and out of the selection he chose to show in the set there is only one shot which is a little bit too 'out there' even for me.

Go to MP's homepage and click the recent work option and have a butchers at the Christ's Hospital set. Not groundbreaking but as good as an account of a 'live' candid documentary shoot that anyone needs to produce. It definitely shows a reflection of that school's life. Show me anyone who could do any better in the circumstances MP had to shoot in.
 
Steve Smith said:
For quirky Britishness, look up John Gay.

Steve.

John gay wasnt British. He took a British name then documented the British way of life. You'll find I referenced him on page 1?
I bought one of his books recently, England observed. Very good and inspiring for a recent project.

Txema salvans is another, he has a great set of people stealing moments of leisure time in odd bits of beaches, between industrial areas, plus other interesting images.
http://www.txemasalvans.com/cas/index.html
 
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Pookeyhead said:
BA (Hons) Photography, FdA Photography & Design and BTEC Extended and Subsidiary Diploma in Photgraphy

Which explains the in depth answers, thanks.
 
That could be a sign of how little 'artistic' chat there is on TP recently... we should do this type of thing more often :)

It's refreshing to be getting involved in something that's addressing the 'whys' of photography and not just another gear thread.

Yep, much more interesting topic. All though deep down, we all know the important question is "which compact should Parr buy"
 
He's not producing commercial work, so there's no parity between what he does and a commercial photographer does. His work is art based and a million miles from commercial photography. In fact, the only connection is that he uses a camera. His work is about satire and parody. It's not about technique. Yes.. he uses a snapshot aesthetic, but it's a considered approach. It's not that he couldn't take a "proper" photograph if he wanted to.

:) I know what you're up to.

I know.. quite depressing. Why does everything have to be pretty, and loaded with technical excellence. Art is about expression and art should say something. His parody of the English in "Last Resort" is just spot on. How else should have shot it? Slow shutter, 10 stop grad, light painted hdr wire wool spinning [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]? He uses a snapshot aesthetic as that's the very vehicle the people he is parodying would themselves use to record their memories of a holiday at the seaside. It's just the same with his work "Home and Abroad".. in fact, it's just a suitable way of presenting things in a no nonsense way that is immediate and eye grabbing. It's essence of photography, no garnish... and it's perfect for what he does.

It's not about wrong or right though is it. I have no problem with people who just don't like it. Why would I? It's when people dismiss it as crap because they don't like it. I dislike lots of artwork... I still admire it and see its value. To dismiss everything you don't like as crap is just extremely closed minded.

+1
 
Yep, much more interesting topic. All though deep down, we all know the important question is "which compact should Parr buy"

He uses a G11 according to his website. ;)

Sure I've seen him using Leicas, a DSLR (Canon I think) and Hasselblads too. I'm pretty sure he can afford to use whichever model, brand or format of camera best suits the job at hand. An enviable position to be in.
 
I know.. quite depressing. Why does everything have to be pretty, and loaded with technical excellence. Art is about expression and art should say something. His parody of the English in "Last Resort" is just spot on. How else should have shot it? Slow shutter, 10 stop grad, light painted hdr wire wool spinning [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]? He uses a snapshot aesthetic as that's the very vehicle the people he is parodying would themselves use to record their memories of a holiday at the seaside. It's just the same with his work "Home and Abroad".. in fact, it's just a suitable way of presenting things in a no nonsense way that is immediate and eye grabbing. It's essence of photography, no garnish... and it's perfect for what he does.

It's not about wrong or right though is it. I have no problem with people who just don't like it. Why would I? It's when people dismiss it as crap because they don't like it. I dislike lots of artwork... I still admire it and see its value. To dismiss everything you don't like as crap is just extremely closed minded.

I love the irony of this post, you dismiss certain forms of photography as and I quote "[PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]" and almost in the next breath "To dismiss everything you don't like as crap is just extremely closed minded."

I'm aware you cannot respond at the moment but still worth highlighting
 
I love the irony of this post, you dismiss certain forms of photography as and I quote "[PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]" and almost in the next breath "To dismiss everything you don't like as crap is just extremely closed minded."

I'm aware you cannot respond at the moment but still worth highlighting

You are missing the point Matt, David is asking is 'good' visual art only possible if you use a method like he mentioned. You have to read the whole context of David's posts.
 
Sure I've seen him using Leicas, a DSLR (Canon I think) and Hasselblads too. I'm pretty sure he can afford to use whichever model, brand or format of camera best suits the job at hand. An enviable position to be in.

Your right he has uses a lot of diffrents cameras over the years,i know a friend of his uses an Canon G11 :)
 
I love the irony of this post, you dismiss certain forms of photography as and I quote "[PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]" and almost in the next breath

Because to use that style of photography in this instance would just result in a complete load of confusing [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER] that meant nothing, that's why. If you read what I said.. it was "How else should have shot it? Slow shutter, 10 stop grad, light painted HDR wire wool spinning [PLEASE DON'T TRY TO BYPASS THE SWEAR FILTER]? We were talking about Martin Parr and how he should have shot his work.


You use what's appropriate. If what you want is to create a highly charged atmosphere in an old abandoned building, then HDR may well result in exactly what you need. If you want to create an image that's full of dynamics, colour and excitement, then having sparks flying everywhere may be exactly what you need too. Whatever style of imagery you want to create though, the important thing is to have a reason behind your images or it amounts to nothing, and unfortunately, a lot of wire wool images have no reason beyond the wire wool itself.

There's no point in taking a photograph if it conveys no message or meaning. Surely everyone must agree with that?

If there's no idea, and no planning, and you're using a technique for absolutely no reason other than the sake of it, then it's probably a pretty poor image. There's always a reason for doing things.. or rather, there SHOULD always be a reason for doing things.

If the image is just someone standing there spinning some wire wool, and that's all it is... then yeah.. that would be a pretty poor image. It would be poor because take the wire wool away, and you've nothing left. It's technique alone. Great for practice, but little else.

On the other hand, I saw in here recently an amazing image that used wire wool. Can't remember who took it now, but it was a bulldozer in a building site, and the wire wool work was done in such a way that it made the machine look like it was alive, and spiting fire.. it was amazing.

Besides... having said all that, I've never said you should never call an image crap.. I just maintain that not liking an image is not in itself a reason for calling it crap. If you think an image is crap, you need to be able to say WHY it's crap. If you can't say WHY it's crap, then you're not qualified to be calling it crap. Calling an image crap because it uses a snapshot style when it was purposely shot in a snapshot style is a little silly IMO. If Parr intended to create a beautifully lit, mechanically composed set of portraits, and THEN produced what he produced.. THEN it would be crap, yes.

It's not what you do, it's why, and how you do it that matters.

The way Parr takes his images is absolutely right for what he's trying to achieve. It's a decision he's made, and it makes sense. Like it or not.. it's not crap because there's a definite reason for his choice of style. He's not playing with a technique for the sake of it... he's not seen something on Flickr and though "I'll have a go at that technique".
 
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Personally, I think the issue Pookey has - sorry for talking about you David - is that he can't accept the idea that some people on here just don't want to expand their understanding of, and ability to produce, photography as an art form.

That's not a criticism of them. Some are pros meeting a need, some aim for technical excellence and so on. Everyone to their own.

Me, when Pookey talks, I open my ears wide. I relate to what he says and I aspire to improve the artistic side of my photography.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, It's often not what he says, but the way he says it that irritates some.

I'm not bothered.
 
John gay wasnt British.[/url]

I know, but his photography is very much of the British people of around fifty years ago.

I love the book England Observed and often borrow it from the library. One day I will buy my own copy!

You'll find I referenced him on page 1?

So you did (well, page 2). how did I miss that?!!


Steve.
 
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