Martial art competition photography help

Amp34

Amp34

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My dad has just asked me if I can photograph a karate competition in a couple of weeks, it will involve people of all ages indoors. He also suggested maybe seeing about selling a few pictures to parents/competitors so sort of making me an 'official photographer' of the event.

Now having never done anything really like this before I don't really know where to start both involving child/selling photography issues and kit/technique. Could anyone with any knowledge of this sort of thing give me a few tips to begin with.

Now in ideal circumstances I would just turn up, take some (good) pictures and stick them on a website with either a simple payment system or email system to sell the pictures. Obviously it is nowhere near that easy.

First thing that comes to mind is the child issue, how would I go about getting consent from parents? My dad suggested sticking a bit at the bottom of the application/consent form for the actual competition, something like:
If the competitor is under 18 I the parent/Guardian consent to photographes being taken of my child...
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Would something like that be reasonable? The second issue I forsee is sticking the said photos on a website to sell them, where would I stand on that as anyone could see the photos and or buy full size versions?

Now to the more interesting bit, Kit and technique wise what would people suggest? At the moment I have a 400D with kit lens (f/3.5) and a 75-300IS (f/4). My dad has said it would be good if I could get away without using a flash (due to distractions and the fact I would have to buy one) so I was wondering about getting a nifty 50 instead. I assume that will remove most of the low light issues but is it likely to be a bit too short for individual photographs?

Anyway enough of me yabbering, any suggestions?

Thanks :)
 
Wouldn't think the 50mm with give you enough range for the comp, last time I did a Judo comp I used a 24-70mm F2.8 as I recall.

Allan
 
Good luck first of all, I have done a couple and it isnt easy, the light is never good as they usually take place in gyms with big high ceiling lights.

lens will depend on what access you get. If you are allowed round the mats, something like a 18-70 is fine, other wise, the 70-300 will be needed. You probably wont be allowed to use flash as it can momentarily blind a competitor and get them a smack they didnt otherwise deserve.

IS your dad running the event? I ask because events where there is more than one club competing usually have an official tog anyway, and consent forms will be on hand for anyone wanting to take pictures. If its your local club events, and you can have some influence, adding something on the competitors consent forms so parents can object if they wish could work.

Either way, I wish you loads of luck, the last one had me tearing my hair out, especially as i was being constantly 'watched' by officials as the only parent there with a camera to rival the 'official' guy! :bang:
 
Try a demo run if you can.

Bump up the iso with the 75-300IS (f/4)

In an ideal world you would have something like the 70-200 IS f2.8.

Good luck and let us see the results
 
I am making the assumption that I will have access pretty much anywhere (within reason) as it's my dads club. As for whether it is an inter club competition, that I don't know, I'll have to check with him about that, it's definately not a big comp though so he will certainly have some influence.

I will certainly have a quick go before hand, having said that it is more experience for me than anything else, my dad has been wanting me to take a few photos to advertise the club for a while but if all photos ended up a disaster then its not too bad, I can just go to a training session instead. The selling part was just a thought by him and I am interested in seeing if it is possible, as I would never turn down a little bit of extra money. :D

What sort of shutter speeds should I be aiming for? 1/200 be fast enough (if I can get it)?
 
;) So its not the Nationals at Nottingham next week that I have just found out I have to attend! :bonk: Karate kids! Gotta love em, they beat you up otherwise.

Definately do a trial run at a training session, maybe with just a few kids whose parents wont mind. All the better if comp and training are held in same place.

Like hypnotic says, turn the ISO up - I ran with 600 last time, and still got plenty of blurred useless pics even at 1/160 - and quicker on the shutter speed they were way too dark, totally frustrating day camera wise that was. However that was with the 70-300 as they wouldnt let me near the mats. Time before, I stuck to the shorter quicker lens and got some better ones as I was stood right by mats.

If you post some trial pics here together with shooting info, the more experience sports snappers may be able to give you a few tips before you do the real thing.
 
Nope not Nottingham, that would have been a firm NO from me. :D

Looks like I will be getting up at 8 next saturday then :/ lol

Thanks for the help and I'll definately post some pics up for help when they are done.
 
I have done a few Karate competitions and use a 24-70 F2.8 lens for adults and a 70-200mm F2.8 lens for children, teenagers and shorter adults. All times I have been able to stand/kneel around the edges of the mats, providing I do not block the view of the judges and have not used flash so as to not distract the competitors.

All times I have had to use ISO 1600 with a depth of field no lower than F4, most images being taken at F2.8 but, this will all depend on the lighting in the gym. Also, I have used a custom white balance due to the lighting conditions in the sports halls/gyms.

What type of Karate is it? I have photographed GKR Karate and images that sell best are where the competitors have fully extended arms and legs for punches and kicks. Bent arms and legs don't tend to sell well.

Finally, if you are able to stand/kneel around the edges of the mat, keep both eyes open and be prepared to move out of the way very quickly. I have nearly been caught a couple of times.
 
As for shutter speeds, I try not to go slower than 1/250 sec as motion blur in photos does not sell very well. The competitors I have photographed prefer the action to be frozen and facial expressions are a big seller.

Good luck
 
Legal issues aside - as I cannot help you in that - I have done one two National karate championships with a pro friend of mine.

Do you have any personal experience in karate or a particularly good understanding of the sport?

Reason why I ask you this is because your 400D at 3 fps is a bit slow for this and so you will need to anticipate the movements to get that shot you want.

I suppose it won't help you much for me to tell you what kit I used but can you beg, borrow (hopefully not steal) a 5 fps body and a fast lens (f/2,8) with at least a 100mm reach.

Check out the hall if you can.

Brightly coloured gym mats might be used so SHOOT RAW - Forget custom WB as things move quickly and you will also most likely pick up casts from the mats.

Flash shouldn't be a problem as plenty of mommies and daddys will be shooting with their happy snappies - But asess the situation on match day!

I have found that doing lots of rapid shooting the flash doesn't cycle fast enough all the time and so a fast lens is essential. Have loads of penlights for your flash!

Be sure to watch your DOF too. This might sound like a conflicting statement but remember that DOF is also affected by your distance from the competitors.

Will have a look on the home pc tonight if I have some of the stuff left and post again!

HTH!

Cheers!
 
Thanks again for the replies and tips. I have a little history but not much (very karate orientated family and did a little bit years ago), this showed a bit today when I went for a trial run in a different hall, I seemed to always misjudge the way people would turn. :D Some of the photos I did take were ok although I was struggling with the light a bit, I did find though that at 75mm (f/4) my lens was resonably ok.

As for a couple of the questions posed so far, the comp will be a tri-club meet so I know all the main instructors and so will have pretty much unlimited access to anywhere I want. The karate is Shotokan and will mostly be katas (I don't think there will be any freestyle) so I think 75mm (on a 1.6 crop) is plenty, as I found out today, having to stand almost the other side of the hall to get whole people in.:lol:

The one main issue I did have with my pictures (aside from shutter speed) was the graininess at ISO1600 so can anyone recommend a program that can sort that out? Also could someone recommend somewhere I could possibly rent a lens out (probably a 70-200 f/2.8 or similar if anything?) as I would be interested in the cost, preferrably in hertfordshire or on the internet.

I will post some pictures of today up here when I have sorted them for tips and comments.:)

Thanks again.:)

EDIT: I just bought a tripod this afternoon, would it be a good idea to take that along to a comp or is it better to take shots freehand?
 
Ok here are some of the photos. They were all taken at or around f/4, 1/100-1/200 and 75mm @ISO1600. The workflow was a pass with Noise Ninja, levels/curves then sharpening.

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The noise ninja pass was needed due to the amount of noise the ISO was creating. Unfortunately the light really was pushing the camera and lens and it showed. I am going to go to this comp with an open mind and not hope for much and you never know, something good may appear.:lol: I was at 75mm most of the time when taking the shots and so I am seriously concidering whether a nifty 50 will be a good bet, it may remove some of the issue with light, I'm going to do a few tests and see if I can get away with it.

Any suggestions or comments would still be apperciated.:)
 
Some good ones there Andy!

Some movement here and there but I think it works and the good thing is the faces are in focus and sharp all the time...

Which is more than I can say for being caught focusing on the B/G...:lol:

Well done m8!
 
Ok well today was the actual competition. I ended up using a combination of the 18-55 (for group shots) and the 75-300 for action shots. I somehow ended up being more 'official' than I was expecting, being drafted in to shoot the trophy giving and the like.:thinking: :lol:

Luck was with me too as the hall was brighter than the previous one and usefully had daylight coloured bulbs so I didn't have to worry about the WB, consequently I decided to shoot in Jpeg to save space (took over 500 photos, my arm actually ached at the end!). I spent the last couple of hours sorting through the photos and they seem pretty good on the whole, the shutter speed issue not causing too much trouble. I'll post a few pictures either later on or tomorrow.:)
 
Ok here are a few photos, all have only been through noise ninja, been resized and sharpened slightly.

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And what they were competing for..

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So far there are 170 (out of about 350) photos of the competitors that are good enough to possibly go to parents so I'm quite pleased with that. I also have a large number of shots of various other bits and pieces for the clubs too, which should be quite good as promotional material.

In all there were about 100 entrants on the day, competing in team and individual events, ranging from 5 - 55 years and from blue - black belts.
 
Nice photo's, the competitors and organisers should be well happy.

NOISE NINJA is an appropriate program for martial art photo's:lol:
Dean
 
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