Manual v. Automatic

robmiller said:
You're missing something :) You might choose the aperture, but the overall exposure is still automatic. For as long as the camera is filling in one or more of your aperture, shutter speed or ISO, your overall exposure is automatic.

People might refer to shutter priority and aperture priority as "semi-automatic" to distinguish them from A/P modes, but ultimately the exposure value will be identical whether you're in A, S, P or auto modes (even if the individual aspects of the exposure are different).
Click to expand...

But exposure isn't everything. As said, there is depth of field to consider or the use of ISO to attain higher shutter speeds.
 
ryank said:
That is not a fair statement.

I used auto for ages on my landscapes (I wanted the photo to be focused all the way through) - until i learnt about aperture settings.

I certainly cared about how my photographs turned out, I used a P/S I was given to me for years, I still cared. Not everyone can afford a SLR and not everyone knows how to use one.

I agree with badgeruk that Program mode is basically auto
Click to expand...

Aperture Priority , Shutter Priority and Programed Auto will all cause the camera to automatically determine the cameras interpretation of the 'correct exposure' and has not nothing to do with the camera getting the correct focus or DOF in a shot thats done by the user focusing on the correct part of the image and choosing the correct aperture that gives the desired DOF so yes the exposure is calculated automatically in these settings but what use is a correctly exposed landscape with a very narrow DOF because the cameras chosen the wrong aperture or a correctly exposed but blurred shot of a racing car because the cameras chosen too low a shutter speed - Yes exposure is calculated automatically by the camera but its the manual user intervention to set one part of the exposure calculation that creates a photograph.
 
donutagain said:
you may be missing the bit where the camera chooses the shutter speed so not really manual either .
Click to expand...

But I never claimed that it was manual. :) Just that it is not auto either.:lol:

You know that I also shoot MF film and often that IS manual so I do get the difference.

Manual is manual (occasionally aided and abetted by a meter)
Auto is auto where the camera makes the decisions.

Av and Tv are both located somewhere in between with the tog making some creative decisions and the camera making the necessary adjustments.
 
AliB said:
But I never claimed that it was manual. :) Just that it is not auto either.:lol:

You know that I also shoot MF film and often that IS manual so I do get the difference.

Manual is manual (occasionally aided and abetted by a meter)
Auto is auto where the camera makes the decisions.

Av and Tv are both located somewhere in between with the tog making some creative decisions and the camera making the necessary adjustments.
Click to expand...

Nice nutshell :thumbs::D
 
right then, we've exhausted the possibilities of manual vs auto, now tis time for raw vs jpeg!!

hehe :P
 
just started to use Manual myself now, and because i used to use Av its been quite a good move, but i still sometimes forget to check the shutter speed as you have full control now.

worth it though in the end... I'm learning a lot more then the auto/semi-auto settings
 
fabs said:
But exposure isn't everything. As said, there is depth of field to consider or the use of ISO to attain higher shutter speeds.
Click to expand...

i'd say exposure is quite useful really .no point having a huge d.o.f. if its all underexposed and so dark you cant see anything.
 
unless its a black cat in a coal cellar at night of course
 
fabs said:
But exposure isn't everything. As said, there is depth of field to consider or the use of ISO to attain higher shutter speeds.
Click to expand...

Exposure IS everything.

There's no use being fancy with DOF or composition if the image isn't exposed the way you want it. Not exposed 'correctly', as there's no such thing, but exposed the way you intended.

If you let the camera make all the exposure decisions (Auto, P, Av/Tv without compensation) then a photographer lacks intent about what they want to capture.

Back to original topic, I use Av with compensation a lot of the time, manual when the lighting is constant.

Duncan
 
fabs said:
But exposure isn't everything. As said, there is depth of field to consider or the use of ISO to attain higher shutter speeds.
Click to expand...

Obviously, but we're talking about exposure here. A and S modes are still automatic exposure, that's what the discussion was about; they're just as "semi-automatic" as P is (since you can change the aperture and shutter speed in that, too).
 
ryank said:
I used auto for ages on my landscapes (I wanted the photo to be focused all the way through) - until i learnt about aperture settings.
Click to expand...

Auto can't do what you wanted it do. Selecting the correct aperture will determine DoF. Auto will just choose an aperture, shutter speed and ISO setting that it thinks will give the best exposure depending on what you metered on, and how you metered. But it certainly will not give you that really great DoF you are after as there is no way to tell the camera in "auto" to do this. So using Auto is a bad way to learn about Aperture. Using aperture priority is however a very good way to learn. So your statement is unfair as it praises the Auto setting as being able to do this.
 
I didn't say exposure wasn't important, merely that it is just a part of the photograph (albeit a large part). Yes, there's no point in having fancy DoF etc if the exposure is out, but there is also no point in having a perfectly exposed photo that is blurred or with a completely inappropriate DoF.

BTW I don't see DoF as fancy.;)
 
fabs said:
I thought we were talking about Manual v Auto. that takes into account more that just exposure.
Click to expand...

We're talking about manual vs. automatic exposure programs, so discussing anything other than exposure is just clouding the issue.
 
In aperture or shutter priority I often point around the scene to find an area to meter off, press the exposure lock button, focus, recompose, fire. Camera-assisted manual mode.
 
fabs said:
Strange, I don't recall Exposure being mentioned in the original post. :thinking:
Click to expand...

"Use the manual setting" implies using manual exposure program, shurely?

I'm not trying to make this some pedantic, semantic argument, because I agree wholly with pxl8's point. I think grouping M/A/S in opposition to P/auto is the wrong way of looking at things; it should be a group of M in opposition to A/S/P/auto, since the former will always give you your exposure and the latter will always give you your meter's.

I don't like the idea that P/auto is some "point and shoot" mode for idiots but that A and S are the complete opposite, that's all :)
 
robmiller said:
We're talking about manual vs. automatic exposure programs, so discussing anything other than exposure is just clouding the issue.
Click to expand...

Not at all!

Manual involves aperture, (to determine depth of field) married to shutter speed to get the required exposure but they are also influenced by metering modes and ISO so they are more than relevant to the finished product.
 
Rob is right, any other mode other than M (or Bulb I suppose) is an 'auto' mode - exposure is automatically calculated by the camera. Aperture and shutter priority give you creative control, but the exposure calculation is still automatic.
 
As I belive I already said in post no 123!

Shouts down a very large well!
 
WeddingHack said:
Rob is right, any other mode other than M (or Bulb I suppose) is an 'auto' mode - exposure is automatically calculated by the camera. Aperture and shutter priority give you creative control, but the exposure calculation is still automatic.
Click to expand...

I would expand on this and say as soon as you use EC you've moved away from auto no matter what mode you're in because at that point you're saying the camera's meter is wrong (for whatever reason) and you're manually overriding it.
 
robmiller said:
"Use the manual setting" implies using manual exposure program, shurely?
Click to expand...

Not at all, as Ali has said, the combination of shutter speed and aperture is about more than just exposure. In any case, what does it matter whether we call certain modes auto or not. They're all tools to create a final image and people should not feel that using any of them is wrong.
 
ThisPhotoGuy said:
Auto can't do what you wanted it do. Selecting the correct aperture will determine DoF. Auto will just choose an aperture, shutter speed and ISO setting that it thinks will give the best exposure depending on what you metered on, and how you metered. But it certainly will not give you that really great DoF you are after as there is no way to tell the camera in "auto" to do this. So using Auto is a bad way to learn about Aperture. Using aperture priority is however a very good way to learn. So your statement is unfair as it praises the Auto setting as being able to do this.
Click to expand...

ahh well i was just lucky a load of times.

This was before I knew anything about the technical side of photography
 
pxl8 said:
Badger, do you ever use EC or just go with what the camera said and rescue any duff shots later with the 2 stops of grace shooting raw offers?
Click to expand...

No, I use all the settings of the camera. But the more I get to grips with the various auto mades the camera provides (Canon 40D) the more I realise that the camera is better at getting things right more consistantly than I am.

So yes I use manual from time to time and I use auto too. But I use auto far more than I use manual. Whereas 20 years ago I used manual nearly all the time.

As for rescuing duff shats, I don't get that many really. Nowhere near as many as I used to get when it was me setting the controls.
 
Does anybody really care what anybody else uses or if they think automatic modes is real photography?

I use whatever gives me the easiest time shooting I use Av when the light is changing as I cant be bothered constantly altering settings in manual, if the lighting is constant I use manual for piece of mind that nothing will trick the camera meter. Occasionally I will use Tv if I want to control shutter speed without reguard to the dof (usually just for panning at rallys).
 
Badger UK said:
Unless the aim is some sort of whacky effect, why would anyone want to use the manual setting on their camera these days?
Click to expand...

Well just from my personal experience, because it's the only really reliable way to get...
Decent bird in flight pictures.
Correct exposures in difficult or mixed lighting scenes.
Reliable indoor flash exposures.
A shutter speed to freeze a subjects movement while staying in control of Dof too.

I'm sure theres a lot more reasons but you get the idea ;)
 
For my Motorsport shots I'll use manual, on the very rare occassions I take photos of anything else I usually use the auto settings on the camera.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top