manual or auto

[Daniel White]

ok then guys been getting some advice from a mate and they say to learn to shoot in manual. ive had some really good result in manual but a trip to the seaside spoilt that. i shot in manual and tried to get everything right, but they look bland and lacking, so the question manual or auto for a advanced newbie?

 

[TCR4x4]

Use whatever method works for you, You are no less of a photographer for not using manual mode.
90% of my photos are shot in Aperture priority.
I still have control as I can add or subtract EC if I feel the scene needs it.

First you need to learn light, there is no point shooting in manual and just lining the exposure meter's needle with the centre, as thats not manual, thats just following the camera's guess at exposure.

If you are shooting something where movement or speed is priority, then use S.
If you want full control over the DOF either large or shallow, then use A
If you have no idea, use P
If you want ultimate control over eveything, use M.

 

[Phil V]

There's already a fairly new and interesting thread running here:
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=396251

 

[Deleted member 49549]

First you need to learn light, there is no point shooting in manual and just lining the exposure meter's needle with the centre, as thats not manual, thats just following the camera's guess at exposure.

+1 to this!

 

[shaylou]

ok then guys been getting some advice from a mate and they say to learn to shoot in manual. ive had some really good result in manual but a trip to the seaside spoilt that. i shot in manual and tried to get everything right, but they look bland and lacking, so the question manual or auto for a advanced newbie?

Almost ever serious photographer I have read about says to use manual. I too am a beginner and I am spending a lot of time studying exposure. I have learned so much by switching to manual mode and I'm certain that the learning curve is much better when you in this setting. I take a few shoots of the same subject with different setting and study the effects of the setting in the editing software. This enlightens me to so much more than I got from the priority modes. Hope that this helps...

 

[Photodiva]

Try 'P' mode. No-one's said anything about using that so far. Gives you far more control than green box auto, allows you to turn the flash on/off yourself, set the iso, use exposure compensation, but still lets the camera decide on shutter speed/aperture for exposure. Its all about getting the shot YOU WANT rather than what the CAMERA wants but without all the pfaff of hit/miss with manual. BUT I suggest you start looking at the exif info either on camera (one of the options in replay) and begin to analyze what settings were used and whether they worked. In my view, that's the best way to gain some experience of the way the camera works and what settings give you the shot you envisaged.

 

[Georges]

I switched to manual mode some months ago and honestly I don't see the difference and taught me nothing. Use it but don't expect it to teach you anything new. I learned all about light, iso, wb, compensation, shutter, aperture, histograms, flash, composition, framing, and countless techniques and the relationship that exist between all of them without touching manual mode.

I am not sure what do people mean it taught me a lot. Like what? some examples will be helpful.

 

[ernesto]

As I said in the other thread it may just be that some people can only learn from experience so they need to change the settings and learn while they do by seeing the results and what direct impact changes make. Others can learn just from reading about it.

Apart from in specific scenarios when exposure needs to be kept constant I think it falls into the camp of having a dog and barking yourself with todays camera technology to hand...

 

[BruceMo]

I switched to manual mode some months ago and honestly I don't see the difference and taught me nothing. Use it but don't expect it to teach you anything new. I learned all about light, iso, wb, compensation, shutter, aperture, histograms, flash, composition, framing, and countless techniques and the relationship that exist between all of them without touching manual mode.

I am not sure what do people mean it taught me a lot. Like what? some examples will be helpful.

I think I've learned a hell of a lot by persevering with manual
I found a dslr simulator on line, to play with motion blur or a sharp image, the biggest thing though was it taught me to think about all the elements of a shot and maybe dropping or raising exposure if auto was blown or under developed background, as well as dof, to get different results
i'm not saying I'm right, just that I learned a lot since getting a camera in January and I get a bit more satisfaction when I get exactly what I was aiming for
Basically, I can get a few very different end results from the same subject altering different things. I just like to understand things I suppose

 

[shaylou]

I switched to manual mode some months ago and honestly I don't see the difference and taught me nothing. Use it but don't expect it to teach you anything new. I learned all about light, iso, wb, compensation, shutter, aperture, histograms, flash, composition, framing, and countless techniques and the relationship that exist between all of them without touching manual mode.

I am not sure what do people mean it taught me a lot. Like what? some examples will be helpful.

In a nutshell it is showing me how each setting change effects the other. It force the user to use creative thought preshoot and not just point and shoot (after one setting was plugged in). I used priority mode the first day I started and after 7 hours I was bored with it. It did help me get an idea of what was going on but it limits the creativity of photography (imho). The other thing it helps with is getting to know all your setting and more importantly how to navigate through them without much thought. These are just a few of the benefits I have found in going to the manual mode.

 

[shaylou]

In a nutshell it is showing me how each setting change effects the other. It force the user to use creative thought preshoot and not just point and shoot (after one setting was plugged in). I used priority mode the first day I started and after 7 hours I was bored with it. It did help me get an idea of what was going on but it limits the creativity of photography (imho). The other thing it helps with is getting to know all your setting and more importantly how to navigate through them without much thought. These are just a few of the benefits I have found in going to the manual mode.

Btw, perhaps you were much more advanced then us beginners. It sounds like you learned everything there was to know from a book or other study then applied it. That's great, but not for everyone me included. I'm more of a hands on learner. Dont get me wrong I have read more in the last month than I have in a long time.

 

[andyred]

Use whatever method works for you, You are no less of a photographer for not using manual mode.
90% of my photos are shot in Aperture priority.
I still have control as I can add or subtract EC if I feel the scene needs it.

First you need to learn light, there is no point shooting in manual and just lining the exposure meter's needle with the centre, as thats not manual, thats just following the camera's guess at exposure.

If you are shooting something where movement or speed is priority, then use S.
If you want full control over the DOF either large or shallow, then use A
If you have no idea, use P
If you want ultimate control over eveything, use M.

I'd agree with Tom really...

Having a play around with Manual is good and don't be put off having a play with it, I generally shoot in A or Tv mode, but there are times when Manual really helps - eg for Cricket

 

[u8myufo]

I switched to manual mode some months ago and honestly I don't see the difference and taught me nothing. Use it but don't expect it to teach you anything new. I learned all about light, iso, wb, compensation, shutter, aperture, histograms, flash, composition, framing, and countless techniques and the relationship that exist between all of them without touching manual mode.

I am not sure what do people mean it taught me a lot. Like what? some examples will be helpful.

You have indeed learned so much, so how about sharing some of your pictures for us to look at then. I for one would love to see how you have applied all that wealth of knowledge Going back to the OP though, Daniel. When you say your photo`s looked bland and boring, it is a bit like me saying I baked a cake and it tasted bland and did not quite look right. Post up up some examples with the exif, it will give people a better idea of what is what and can then advise accordingly.

 

[Noah_]

Manual, if you can learn to control your exposures from an early stage it can be an early head start in developing your photography. Just be careful not to make the mistake of expecting amazing results from the beginning! It's all about experimenting & finding what'd be best for you.

 

[artyman]

I can remebr back in my impoversished schoolboy days before I even owned a light meter, I got used to gauging exposure manually by looking at the scene. TTL metering on my first decent 35mm was sheer luxury

 

[Noah_]

I can remebr back in my impoversished schoolboy days before I even owned a light meter, I got used to gauging exposure manually by looking at the scene.

Erm, I still tend to do this today with both film & digital.. it's all about creating a relationship with light, understanding it & compensating for it.

 

[shaylou]

I can remebr back in my impoversished schoolboy days before I even owned a light meter, I got used to gauging exposure manually by looking at the scene. TTL metering on my first decent 35mm was sheer luxury

I can't even begin to imagine how much time and effort went into learning expose, let alone being creative with it without the aid digital and all the useful tools.
Hats off to all that were brave enough to take on that challenge.

 

[lizzy23]

i use whatever is appropriate for what i'm shooting and will use AV, TV and Manual where necessary

 

[happygolucky]

I'v only owned a DSLR for just over a year but, it didn't take me that long to understand to shoot in manual. Having said that I only use it when AV or TV is restricting control over exposure, like in a pub shooting a band where I need full control of aperture and shutter speed.

 

[bomberman]

I only ever use Manual mode with flash or long exposures. Most other times i use Aperture Priority.

Like someone said above, if you want to over/underexpose you can use exposure compensation, but on my camera this is very easy to do by using the scroll wheel on the back; your camera layout may be different.

For me AV is better for capturing the moment most of the time but there are certain situations when it's better to use manual - adverse or changeable lighting conditions for example.

My advice to you is to have a play and see what suits you best, using manual mode for a while won't do you any harm and it should teach you a bit about exposure and the way your meter works.

Tim

 

[GHP]

but there are certain situations when it's better to use manual - adverse or changeable lighting conditions for example.

Tim

I don't understand this bit. Surely when the light is changing is the most tricky time to be using manual, especially for a beginner.

IMHO there is far too much snobbery involved in shooting manual. It really P's me off when some-one says you have to use manual to be a "real" photographer. Nikon, Canon et al have spent years and countless millions designing their metering systems and their cameras and the modes to be used, so why not use them?

I use whatever mode is best for me at the time, (although 90% of the time it will be aperture priority), apart from flash work, when I tend to use manual.

 

[onona]

Nikon, Canon et al have spent years and countless millions designing their metering systems and their cameras and the modes to be used, so why not use them?

While I agree with you that the snobbery is stupid and pointless, I'd say that using an auto mode is kinda like using clipart, whereas shooting manual is like painting your own picture - both produce an image, but the difference is that in auto it's the camera deciding for you (and there's really nothing inherently wrong with that), while manual allows you to decide how your image will look. They're two different approaches for different ends. For me, I prefer to have complete control over my photos because for me, photography as an expression of how I see things, whereas others may opt for auto because their goals are different.

Neither one is superior to the other at the end of the day because it comes down to what you're wanting to do yourself.

 

[Phil V]

While I agree with you that the snobbery is stupid and pointless, I'd say that using an auto mode is kinda like using clipart, whereas shooting manual is like painting your own picture - both produce an image, but the difference is that in auto it's the camera deciding for you (and there's really nothing inherently wrong with that), while manual allows you to decide how your image will look. They're two different approaches for different ends. For me, I prefer to have complete control over my photos because for me, photography as an expression of how I see things, whereas others may opt for auto because their goals are different.

Neither one is superior to the other at the end of the day because it comes down to what you're wanting to do yourself.

This may come off as harsh, but have you ever used a camera? You start with 'snobbery is stupid' before making the snobbiest statement in the entire thread.

once I have carefully selected my subject, focal length, shooting angle, lighting angle and composition.
If I select my iso and exactly what I'm metering from, select my aperture and have a check that the selected aperture produces an acceptable shutter speed, at what point is that like using clip art?

Can you elaborate on exactly what it is in shooting manual that's made it a less automatic experience, are you using a hand held incident meter? A spot meter? Grey cards? Or are you shooting using the built in meter, and choosing how to interpret that whilst you're setting up a shot in exactly the same way as I do?

In 25+ years of photography, I've shot hundreds of thousands of frames on Manual, but I can't feel that I'm missing something by not choosing manual for every shot. And I'm certainly not 'putting down my paint brushes' when I switch from M to AV, I'm just choosing the most appropriate way of shooting based on my preferences and the conditions.

 

[onona]

You've completely misunderstood my analogy. But I rather suspect that's because you've made up your mind that I'm just wrong.

I also don't know of any camera that allows you to select your aperture, ISO or any other settings in auto mode.

 

[Phil V]

You've completely misunderstood my analogy. But I rather suspect that's because you've made up your mind that I'm just wrong.

I don't see how that was misunderstood, you compared shooting in any auto mode to simply choosing clip art rather than creating a painting.

If that's not what you meant then perhaps you'll explain?

 

[onona]

I don't understand how you can argue that point. When you shoot in Auto, the camera is deciding everything for you, you're just choosing the angle and shooting. That's very much like selecting an image you want, that's been created in a set way for you. Both ultimately fulfill the same purpose of resulting in an image, but in a different way. I don't see how you can accuse me of snobbery when I specifically said at the end of my post that neither is superior, because ultimately it's a personal choice.

Additionally, I never said anything about Av mode, so I don't understand why you're bringing that up in your previous post. I am talking specifically about the full Auto mode that cameras have, because that's how I interpret the use of the word "auto" in the thread title.

 

[Phil V]

I don't understand how you can argue that point. When you shoot in Auto, the camera is deciding everything for you, you're just choosing the angle and shooting. That's very much like selecting an image you want, that's been created in a set way for you. Both ultimately fulfill the same purpose of resulting in an image, but in a different way. I don't see how you can accuse me of snobbery when I specifically said at the end of my post that neither is superior, because ultimately it's a personal choice.

Additionally, I never said anything about Av mode, so I don't understand why you're bringing that up in your previous post. I am talking specifically about the full Auto mode that cameras have, because that's how I interpret the use of the word "auto" in the thread title.

You might be talking about the full auto mode, but that wasn't clear, and everyone else has been talking about any of the 'auto' modes. Maybe you should have read the thread before making what becomes a sweeping statement that you now cant stand by, context is everything. With hindsight I'd have almost agreed with you, I don't even use the green box when giving the camera to non-photographers to use.

As I clearly said, when I shoot in auto I've made loads of decisions, you chose to read 'auto' as green box, I see auto as any mode where me and the camera or flash have a discussion about the settings.

You never answered about your metering method, which would give us a better idea about how 'Manual' your manual shooting is

 

[boyfalldown]

Additionally, I never said anything about Av mode, so I don't understand why you're bringing that up in your previous post.

in fairness I think any confusion as come around because you referred to

an auto mode

implying more then one. Many people think of A,P & S as auto modes as well as fully automatic. Just a confusion of phrasing.

Anyway I think one thing thats missed from this discussion has been consistency which is only really available in fully manual mode. Its often really important to deliver a set of consistently exposed photos and M mode is the easiest way to do this

 

[Noah_]

While I agree with you that the snobbery is stupid and pointless, I'd say that using an auto mode is kinda like using clipart, whereas shooting manual is like painting your own picture - both produce an image, but the difference is that in auto it's the camera deciding for you (and there's really nothing inherently wrong with that), while manual allows you to decide how your image will look. They're two different approaches for different ends. For me, I prefer to have complete control over my photos because for me, photography as an expression of how I see things, whereas others may opt for auto because their goals are different.

Neither one is superior to the other at the end of the day because it comes down to what you're wanting to do yourself.

Honestly, Talk Photography needs a "like" button!
Couldn't have phrased this better myself.
I understood what you meant :}

 

[petersmart]

While I agree with you that the snobbery is stupid and pointless, I'd say that using an auto mode is kinda like using clipart, whereas shooting manual is like painting your own picture

Frankly I think that is just a load of pretentious CRAP!

Like many others on here I use the AV mode - I couple it with centre AF and centre weighted exposure because I have learned that that gives quite good photos - under normal circumstances.

But even in AV mode I do have the option of altering the aperture (for decreased or increased DOF) or using exposure compensation for those circumstances which my experience (or the blinkies and the histogram) tell me I need to.

Most of my concentration when taking a picture is concentrated on the picture not worrying about incidental things like whether using manual or modes somehow make me less of a photographer.

And after all can anyone here tell, of all the pictures shown on these pages, which were taken using the various modes available or manual?

And pretentious statements like "using an auto mode is kinda like using clipart, whereas shooting manual is like painting your own picture" simply shows to me that you really don't understand photography.

.

 

[grotty]

Erm, I still tend to do this today with both film & digital.. it's all about creating a relationship with light, understanding it & compensating for it.

You are using the bodies built in meter though, I believe Ken is referring to a fully manual body with zero metering assistance on the body or an external light meter.

 

[redddraggon]

On the D700 I have A, S, M and P, I can't work out how P works - I twiddle the dials and I get P or P* but the SS or f/stop doesn't change so I'm know sure the point of it?

 

[boliston]

On the D700 I have A, S, M and P, I can't work out how P works - I twiddle the dials and I get P or P* but the SS or f/stop doesn't change so I'm know sure the point of it?

P* simply means you have changed the default P setting. I found it easily to accidentally do this if you jog the command wheel without noticing.

 

[shaylou]

You might be talking about the full auto mode, but that wasn't clear, and everyone else has been talking about any of the 'auto' modes. Maybe you should have read the thread before making what becomes a sweeping statement that you now cant stand by, context is everything. With hindsight I'd have almost agreed with you, I don't even use the green box when giving the camera to non-photographers to use.

As I clearly said, when I shoot in auto I've made loads of decisions, you chose to read 'auto' as green box, I see auto as any mode where me and the camera or flash have a discussion about the settings.

You never answered about your metering method, which would give us a better idea about how 'Manual' your manual shooting is

I thought auto was when you do not have control of the exposure setting and priority mode you only have one setting that you control. I'm confused, how do you make all of those adjustments in auto mode.

 

[Noah_]

You are using the bodies built in meter though, I believe Ken is referring to a fully manual body with zero metering assistance on the body or an external light meter.

Wrong :} Fully manual film SLR is my preferred choice & that one has no built-in/external metre ~ having said that, I do love what my 5D MKII produces tho!

 

[grotty]

Wrong :} Fully manual film SLR is my preferred choice & that one has no built-in/external metre ~ having said that, I do love what my 5D MKII produces tho!

Fairy nuff. Like the man the orthopaedic shoes...

 

[Phil V]

I thought auto was when you do not have control of the exposure setting and priority mode you only have one setting that you control. I'm confused, how do you make all of those adjustments in auto mode.

This is difficult to answer simply; exposure lock, exposure compensation, reflectors, auto flash, manual flash.

If we start by agreeing that we have chosen our subject, camera angle, lens and for simplicity ISO. The subject requires no extra lighting or reflectors.

The Manual shooter will choose his aperture for his chosen depth of field, and then either centre his meter or other setting, (depending on reflectivity of subject) by selecting the shutter speed. so the settings are 2.8 at 1/100.

The AV shooter will choose his aperture for his chosen depth of field, and then allow the camera to set his shutter speed, depending on reflectivity of subject, he will have chosen to use exposure compensation or exposure lock.. so the settings are 2.8 at 1/100.

Whats the difference in the two photographs?

If the manual shooter slavishly follows the inbuilt light meter to expose the image, he is literally being told what to do by the camera, in effect he's a very simple auto exposure control.

Whereas, by shooting in an auto mode, if you are making all the important decisions, and leaving the camera to fill in one gap, you aren't handing over any artistic control to the camera, you are simply using the tool available.

No one nowadays has a lever near their steering wheel to advance the timing of the ignition when accelerating, we allow the engine management system to do it for us.

Likewise, no one tunes their television into the next channel, we allow the auto tuner to save our list of stations.

I could have spent a great deal of effort this evening turning on and off the central heating boiler, but I have a very snazzy little computer that will keep the house at a comfortable temperature of my choosing.

Now, some people enjoy the thrill of driving pre-war cars, or shooting manual only cameras, there's a certain skill and sense of achievement, but it shouldn't be seen as the norm to which we must attach ourselves.

 

[juli11]

Use whatever method works for you, You are no less of a photographer for not using manual mode.
90% of my photos are shot in Aperture priority.
I still have control as I can add or subtract EC if I feel the scene needs it.

First you need to learn light, there is no point shooting in manual and just lining the exposure meter's needle with the centre, as thats not manual, thats just following the camera's guess at exposure.

If you are shooting something where movement or speed is priority, then use S.
If you want full control over the DOF either large or shallow, then use A
If you have no idea, use P
If you want ultimate control over eveything, use M.

WORD.

I use all modes. Manual is awesome cause you can have all the control you want but it's just not that practical sometimes when you just want to capture the moment....
I normally use it when I'm shooting in a studio where the environment is more or less a constant.
Aperture priority remains my most-used I still have plenty of control and when I need deliberate underexposed or overexposed images I can just use EC for that.
It's of course important to learn the relationship between aperture, shutter speed, iso, and all that, and trying out new things in manual mode will expand your imagination (instead of 'just' getting a perfectly exposed picture all the time).
But I don't think there's a 'better' mode. I personally find it more rewarding to spend more time thinking about composition, and the different angles I can shoot from.

 

[shaylou]

This is difficult to answer simply; exposure lock, exposure compensation, reflectors, auto flash, manual flash.

If we start by agreeing that we have chosen our subject, camera angle, lens and for simplicity ISO. The subject requires no extra lighting or reflectors.

The Manual shooter will choose his aperture for his chosen depth of field, and then either centre his meter or other setting, (depending on reflectivity of subject) by selecting the shutter speed. so the settings are 2.8 at 1/100.

The AV shooter will choose his aperture for his chosen depth of field, and then allow the camera to set his shutter speed, depending on reflectivity of subject, he will have chosen to use exposure compensation or exposure lock.. so the settings are 2.8 at 1/100.

Whats the difference in the two photographs?

If the manual shooter slavishly follows the inbuilt light meter to expose the image, he is literally being told what to do by the camera, in effect he's a very simple auto exposure control.

Whereas, by shooting in an auto mode, if you are making all the important decisions, and leaving the camera to fill in one gap, you aren't handing over any artistic control to the camera, you are simply using the tool available.

No one nowadays has a lever near their steering wheel to advance the timing of the ignition when accelerating, we allow the engine management system to do it for us.

Likewise, no one tunes their television into the next channel, we allow the auto tuner to save our list of stations.

I could have spent a great deal of effort this evening turning on and off the central heating boiler, but I have a very snazzy little computer that will keep the house at a comfortable temperature of my choosing.

Now, some people enjoy the thrill of driving pre-war cars, or shooting manual only cameras, there's a certain skill and sense of achievement, but it shouldn't be seen as the norm to which we must attach ourselves.

Thank you for the details. Actually I am aware of priory modes. My question is do you use these modes in order to speed up the preshot process? It cuts to the chase for the most part. I'm sure I will use them one day when I fully understand exposure. For now it seems that full manual is making me work for it.

Btw we still use in car ignition timers in race cars. Not much anymore but I still see them. Lol.

 

[Iris]

For me Auto means the little green box or the portrait/landscape/macro modes. Any other decision is a chosen exposure mode.
Telling someone else that they can only learn by shooting manual is ridiculous - we all have to start somewhere and if you are using auto settings while learning about light & composition then what are you doing wrong?