Manual mode

Janice

Janice

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Janice
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I always use manual mode on my camera along with partial or spot metering, the reason being that i take a part of the subject that I want correctly exposed and then up or down a couple of stops to get that bit exposed right if it is light or darker than average......the zone system you could say.

What I cant understand is people using manual mode with matrix/pattern metering. You wouldnt be setting your settings in manual for any particular bit if 35 spots are in the equation would you.

Two questions then:
a) do any of you use manual with matrix/pattern metering
b) if so, why do you use manual?

Janice
 
:thinking: ... I'll fire it back at you Janice ...

Why should you not use Manual with Matrix Metering ... :shrug:

It is, after all just another form of metering ... with its own particular benefits in suitable situations ... in the same way as Spot or 'Partial' Metering are ... ;)

At the end of the day metering gives the photographer a guide for his/her other settings ... and each will have their own methods depending on the circumstances and personal requirements for any particular situation/shot ... surely ... :thinking:

Matrix systems just provide a good averaging system of metering ... where Spot or Partial are perhaps not best suited ... :D

The rest, as they say ... is up to the individual ... ;)

IMO anyway ... :p
 
But if "matrix provides a good average overall metering"....then why wouldnt you just accept it as that and take the picture using av or tv or P or even auto.

Surely manual is all about taking control yourself and metering on the part that is important to you which the camera cannot know.

Its like saying "Hey I can use manual, I know what Im doing"...but then just clicking the shutter with whatever the matrix metering says is right and not having any input into the picture yourself isnt it?

Im not having a go at anyone...its just a discussion! :)
 
I've been using matrix metering because I'm an idiot and thought I'd picked something else. I also only shoot in manual. But what I found was I just learned to over or underexpose to compensate.... Of course now that I use the correct metering I don't have to do that!
 
h.r.ford said:
But what I found was I just learned to over or underexpose to compensate.... Of course now that I use the correct metering I don't have to do that!
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But that is what you are SUPPOSED to do in manual! LOL :D
its just that it should be done with a certain tone of the shot in mind...not the whole 35 or 45 matrix bits where I think it would be impossible.
 
Janice said:
Im not having a go at anyone...its just a discussion! :)
Click to expand...

I like discussions ... :D

And I don't agree ... the only thing metering does is give you a guide as to when all the other components of the shot come together ... Exposure / Aperture / ISO / WB ... etc., ... all of which may be set by the photographer individually to suit irrespective of what metering is being used ... :shrug:

If you take your argument to its logical conclusion ... one would not use any metering because the camera is providing input ... not the photographer ... :thinking:

My point is that metering is just a simple 'in camera' tool for providing a reading of light reflecting from a subject/s or group of subjects ... in much the same way as one might use a light meter ... on one or more subject/s or groups of subjects ... then the other stuff may be set in any permutation depending on what the 'artists' desired outcome is ... using the information provided by the metering (light meter) to adjudge whether the overall end result is going to be exposed in line with meter or personal preference ... that is, after all what manual setting is providing ... imo of course ... :D

Just prolonging the discussion ... :p
 
Ah shuttup!!! :razz: :D :D :D
 
Why not use matrix metering with manual, doesn't it all depend on what effect you are trying to achieve? There are times when matrix metering will give you the right exposure, when the scene is mainly mid-tones or averages to mid-tones, if there are extremes in contrast then spot or partial may be the way to go.

When I take a photo I make a decision as to which metering mode to use in the same way I choose aperture & shutter speed, it all depends what I'm after. On the recent Bolton Abbey trip I used manual/matrix combination nearly all day and occasionally switched to Tv mode, don't think I ever used partial at all, didn't see the need.

Please bear in mind I've only been doing this for 9 months or so, so my understanding and method may be wrong :)
 
OK so if you are using matrix metering.....when you look in the viewfinder do you turn aperture/shutterspeed dials to make the needle point at the centre position?
 
If you are taking photos with the needle on the centre position then you are accepting what the camera is saying is a correct exposure and there is no need to be in manual...... you may as well leave it on tv or av all the time.
 
whatever method you use to meter the scene you then make the decision as to what aperture/shutter speed combination you will use and then maybe under or over expose to get the effect you are after, possibly bracketing exposures, I dont see that it matters what method you use to meter, spot, partial, matrix or even use an external meter (reflected or incidence) ultimately the photographer is in charge.
 
Well sort of, but not exactly :)

I use manual mode to make me think about what aperture & shutter speed I want for the photo. There will be times when the matrix exposure reading is correct, so moving the needle to the centre is correct. Other times I may want a specific effect so I'll under/overexpose the image, so I guess I don't always move the needle to the centre.

Other times I will swap to partial metering when I think the matrix metering mode will not do a good job, then I look for a mid-grey object within the scene to take a reading from, or use that wonderful light meter you sold me :) Where I struggle is choosing the right mid-grey object to meter from, I need more practice.
 
Yes I agree...but its the manual part that doesnt seem to make sense. why do people use it who arent even using it.... if that makes sense!
If you have the needle in the middle...then you dont need to be in manual mode.
Manual mode is to under or over expose to get right certain parts of a difficult lighting situation. If you take every photo with the indicator on the centre position...then you arent making any choices but doing what the camera tells you, arent you?
 
The Zone System was devised by Ansell Adams and relied on identifying a specific tone in your scene(one of about 10 key tones) as it would appear in monochrome, and exposing for that tone, the nub of his theory being that if that tone was correctly exposed, all the other tones would be correctly exposed. It's extremely difficult to get a grasp of, let alone put it into practice. Also despite his preoccupation with getting the exposure right, he spent many long hours in the darkroom, being a master of dodging, burning and every trick going to get the effect he desired. The Zone Sytem is a long way away from what we're discussing here. ;)
 
Well in your situation neonpollen, you are using it the same as me.....so now I know Im doing the same as someone else.......I will shutup and stop annoying the hell out of everyone and go to bed! ;) :lol: :D :lol:


PS I dont think the zone system is difficult at all............. there are 5 tones below centre mid-grey and 5 tones above. although most people use a simplified version with about 3 tones above and below. if a subject is the midgrey tone you leave the meter on the centre.....if you want to make ie, the clouds white but with a tiny bit of detail you dial up an additional 1 1/2 or 2 stops, (+) if you want a black to be really dark black you dial down 2 stops (-).

If people arent doing that then i cant see the point in them being in manual. Time for bed said Zebedee!!
 
Last weekend I was shooting cross country in a wooded area in Av mode I took a few test shots and decided they looked a little dark so I set the camera to overexpose by 2/3 of a stop. So even in auto you can still retain control.
Although I would say that in the majority of cases the camera makes a good decision sometimes it is a matter of being confident that you know better than the camera.
 
I rarely shoot in Manual Mode. :shrug: There are occasions when Manual is more convenient, but none that can't be overcome using TV or AV... thats what the Exposure Compensation setting is for.

I don't think anyone is getting annoyed Janice, in fact I think it's a fair question. What does make me groan sometimes is when I see people being urged to shoot in Manual, particularly rank newbies, as though it's somehow a superior way of working.

What's far more important is an understanding of basic exposure techniques, how the different metering systems work, when you can trust them, and when you can override them to your advantage.

The auto systems, AV and TV, even P, will be relied on by many a pro in lots of situatiions, make no mistake about it. ;)
 
CT said:
The auto systems, AV and TV, even P, will be relied on by many a pro in lots of situatiions, make no mistake about it. ;)
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you're right there........I know of quite a few pro's who go into P mode when shooting weddings!! (not such a large chance of errors on someone's big day!)
 
But back to your original question about matrix metering, I don't see why you can't use it with manual mode .. you've got me paranoid now :)
 
neonpollen said:
But back to your original question about matrix metering, I don't see why you can't use it with manual mode .. you've got me paranoid now :)
Click to expand...

I didnt say you CANT.....I just wondered how it would work if you are in manual to use something similar to the zone system and trying to get a certain part of an image the correct tone.....how can that work if you are taking in all the 30 or 40 points that the evalutative/matrix uses? It would be taking readings from all over the picture instead of just on the part you want to expose correctly.

And dont get paranoid.....that's my job!! ;)
 
If you want a certain part of the image the correct tone then you wouldn't use matrix metering I agree. Do you look for a part of the image to expose correctly for in every image you take ?
 
neonpollen said:
If you want a certain part of the image the correct tone then you wouldn't use matrix metering I agree. Do you look for a part of the image to expose correctly for in every image you take ?
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Well I personally try to yes.......but generally mostly if its an important part......ie, I dont like white puffy clouds completely blown out or greyish,

in fact white is usually the colour/tone I look at most, once thats gone, youve had it!! :)
 
Ansel Adams’ Zone System is a very useful method of exposure when used with a spot meter. Several brands of hand-held spot meters can be modified with the simple addition of a Zone System scale printed on a sticky label. When attaching the paper scale to your meter, the center of Zone V is placed directly over your meter’s reference point or index mark.

After visualizing the final image, a photographer takes a close-up spot meter reading of an area that is determined should be placed on a particular zone. I wanted the white trunks of the aspen trees to appear in the final image as white, but still retaining a bit of visible texture. With some practice, I know that means Zone VII. After setting the EV number that appeared in my meter’s viewfinder opposite Zone VII on my scale’s meter, the meter displayed a combination of f-stops and shutter speeds. I selected the f-stop that gave me the depth-of-field I needed for the aspen scene and used the shutter speed opposite that f-stop.

Zone 0 Total black

Zone I Black without any texture

Zone II Black with slight suggestion of tonality

Zone III Darkest areas that still retail some visible detail

Zone IV Average shadows in landscapes or portraits

Zone V Middle Gray - 18% gray card

Zone VI Average Caucasian skin - Shadows on snow in sunlit snowscapes

Zone VII Lightest areas in any scene that still retain some visible detail

Zone VIII White areas with slightly visible textures - Highlights on Caucasian skin

Zone IX Glaring white surfaces - Highlights without any texture

Zone X A light source (records only as the maximum white value of paper surface)


Instead of compensating for an exposure reading after it is metered, a photographer determines before taking a meter reading exactly where, on a scale from pure black to pure white, a certain part of a composition, landscape, scene, portrait. etc., should be placed. A close-up meter reading of an 18% gray card should be placed on Zone V–exactly half-way between black and white. The clear north sky, weathered wood, gray stone, green grass should usually be placed on Zone V. Dark stone, dark foliage, landscape shadows, unbleached demin, etc. can usually be placed on Zone IV (one stop darker than middle gray). Caucasian skin, shadows on snow, light stone, sand dunes and other subjects with similar lighter-than-middle gray areas can be placed on Zone VI.

Zone II = -3 stops
Zone III = -2 stops
Zone IV = -1 stop
Zone V = +- 0 stops
Zone VI = +1 stop
Zone VII = +2 stops
Zone VIII = +3 stops
 
arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhh that is a complicated technique, i'm sure that's what i pay nikon to do for me?

i use manual and matrix together sometimes, it can be more convienient/faster than using exp compensation.
 
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