Manchester photographers: Congestion charge vote

[8utters]

For all those who live in Manchester:

Are you voting yes or no on the congestion charge/public transport vote and why?

Just interested as I got my ballot through the post a few days ago.

 

[Moz]

Erm, I think I'm going to vote 'no'. But then again to doesnt come in until 2012 and I dont have a clue if ill be working in Manchester then or what. They've been saying there going to improve the public transport for years, prices have almost doubled and I think the service has got worse. They should fix the potholes round my way tbh, £600 in repairs to my car largely due to craters in the road.

 

[8utters]

Yeah the state of the roads in Manchester is horrendous.

I think i'm gonna vote yes.

The transport system in Manchester is pretty poor. There are still buses running that are decades old and in London similar buses were taken off the road years ago.

Also flat-rate fares for all the buses in Manchester would be great, it works so well in London. As does the Oyster card, and it would be great too.

80% of the public transport improvements will be made before the congestion charge is even introduced, and that won't be until 2013 at the earlyest.

The pothole situation is something that would be paid out of road tax. One argument against the congestion change (which my housemates keep saying) is 'Why should drivers pay for public transport which they don't use'. Even though drivers pay a lot of road tax which pays for all the roads which those without cars use too (on public transport or not).

 

[Matt]

well Boris has announced the london one is getting the shaft so you might avoid it anyway

 

[Marcel]

I've voted no, purely on principle.

They sold our transport system from underneath us in 1986, to private transport companies who were interested in profit and profit alone.

Over the past 22 years, they have run it into the ground and bled it dry, and now we're expected to put MORE money into it?

No, get the transport companies to pay for these 'improvements', not us.

 

[candlestick]

I'm another no - yes the roads are shagged and clogged up but I can't bring myself to vote for what amounts to localised road tax. Also, on a selfish note, we've got the tram already, so sod everbody else!!

 

[purpleclouds]

I was going to vote yes, but as I'm only temporarily in Manchester (I'm registered on the electoral role in Suffolk) so don't get a say

Candlestick and 8utters - No one has paid road tax for over 70 years. Vehicle excise duty is what you pay. Everyone's council tax goes towards paying for the majority of roads covered by the proposed congestion charge. The only roads paid for out of motoring taxes are the motorways and some of the larger roads, but not many...so even I pay for the roads but very rarely use them. Twice since the beginning of the month actually...and that was on buses, whom pay their council rates anyway So can I have a refund on some of my council tax?

 

[whiteflyer]

I don't get a vote as I'm just outside the area but would vote NO.

Two reasons, first I've all ready paid my road tax to the government I should not have to pay again to the council, why pay for the same thing twice.

The second reason is very much in-line with Marcel comments on the private buses. If you really want to improve the buses in Manchester then ban Stagecoach from operating in the city.

8utters wants a flat rate in the city, well it's Stagecoach who will do ANYTHING to prevent that. There were a couple of new company's doing a flat rate and Stagecoach told the council to get them out of the city or they Stagecoach will ensure that the city came to gridlock by making sure Stagecoach buses block junction and drive at extreme slow speed.

Lo and behold within a few weeks the new company's were out on "safety grounds"

The best thing is to give the council TOTAL control of who operates, which routes and timetable of all bus routes.

 

[purpleclouds]

Two reasons, first I've all ready paid my road tax to the government I should not have to pay again to the council, why pay for the same thing twice.

But you already pay your 'road tax' to the council in the vast majority of cases...you mean?

Do you have any name or proof of these other companies? If Stagecoach had done that, so seemingly public, then they would have probably had their license removed under anti competition laws. I've lived in Manchester most of my life and never, ever heard of it.

 

[whiteflyer]

But you already pay your 'road tax' to the council in the vast majority of cases...you mean?

Do you have any name or proof of these other companies? If Stagecoach had done that, so seemingly public, then they would have probably had their license removed under anti competition laws. I've lived in Manchester most of my life and never, ever heard of it.

I mean I've paid my Road Fund Licence which gives me the right to use the public roads of Britain free of charge. If each city is now going to charge to use the same public roads then I'm paying twice.

Stagecoach did not print their demand in the Metro , but their dirty tactics can be research on the internet and the odd leak here and there gives credence to the report.

Stagecoach has been found guilty of using dirty tricks to try to lure passengers from rival companies in Manchester's bus war.

The company, which has a reputation for aggressive takeovers in the transport industry, parked its vehicles on the bus stops of other operators in a city-centre square, blocking their access. Stagecoach inspectors then stood in front of rival vehicles, obstructed the doors and "herded" passengers... more

Stagecoach North West is to appear before the traffic commissioner over claims of a bus war in Preston.

The company is currently competing for passengers along the same routes into the city with rival firm Preston Bus.

The issue was raised in the House of Commons by Preston Labour MP Mark Hendrick, who accused Stagecoach of using "dirty tactics".

Also in the MEN

A DAVID v Goliath war on the buses has forced a tiny company to secretly film a giant rival's alleged campaign to get them off the road ....more

Local MP John Leech (Manchester, Withington, Liberal Democrat) has even said in parliament that deregulation and made Manchester bus services the worst in the UK

 

[purpleclouds]

I mean I've paid my Road Fund Licence which gives me the right to use the public roads of Britain free of charge. If each city is now going to charge to use the same public roads then I'm paying twice.

That is fair enough...but please at least give it's proper name. So many people actually think they pay road tax which goes towards fixing the potholes outside their house...and seems to be one of the main counter arguments against TiF and the congestion charge, yet most have no idea what they're on about. You have at least shown that you do

Stagecoach did not print their demand in the Metro , but their dirty tactics can be research on the internet and the odd leak here and there gives credence to the report.

I am aware they have used dirty tactics before, but without any names etc then the argument posted is not substantiated. There is a level to which all companies must compete..if they overstep the mark then they overstep the mark and should pay. I agree! They are a large company and cannot help but compete against small companies..hence the David vs Goliath image. It happens in all business...look at Microsoft! Yet I bet you run a Windows based PC...

They are however, obviously, very pro TiF so I cannot see them being against an electronic ticket system, and they have actually been investing in ticket machines along some arterial bus routes which allow you to use your debit/credit card to buy day or week tickets, both for Stagecoach and SystemOne....and this is without TiF. I can't see them proactively selling SystemOne tickets, yet being against an Oyster card solution?

To be honest though, they don't run a bad bus service..whenever I do use it, it is on time and always turns up! Over priced....yes for single journeys but £10 for a week ticket is pretty good in anyone's books....

I'm not trying to defend Stagecoach here, I do in fact think the buses should be run in the same style as London run theirs.

 

[Adamski]

I'm voting 'NO' as all the benefits seem to be going to areas inside the outer charging ring. Where I live in Stockport, we will be getting 1 extra yellow school bus (whoopee doo), a new bus station (nothing wrong with the present one) and possibly, just possibly a tram link in about 2020 that will take longer than going direct on the train.

If there was only 1 charging ring round the city centre then I could understand it but putting the outer right round the M60 is stupid. What if you usually drive to work from somewhere like Gatley to Didsbury which would involve crossing the M60 and therefore costing you £2 in the morning rush hour and £1 back in the evening. This only takes 10 mins each way.

Doing the same thing by bus could involve a 15 min walk (possibly getting drenched) then a bus into Cheadle, then another bus from Cheadle up past Parrs Wood to Didsbury then a walk to your office. The whole thing could take 45 mins. Plus listening to scallies playing so-called music on their mobiles entertaining the whole bus.

There are 10 boroughs voting but Stockport borough would only see one sixtieth of the total sum.

Not for me thanks. :nono:

 

[Marcel]

It's not necessarily the dirty tactics. The standard by which the bus companies operate is disgusting.

First (Manchester). The standard of some of the buses is absolutely shocking. They repeatedly send out unroadworthy buses that get sent back in to the depot time and time again for serious mechanical faults, yet those faults get ignored, and the bus gets put back into the system, and sent back out.
They operate, not just for profit (which would be fine), but out of greed. Every single penny is scrimped, and the lives of the public are being put at risk. There's no way I should pay to plug the holes of their shoddy business practises.

 

[Deleted member 11790]

I am another NO, as the changes to the transport system such as metro etc wont even touch the area that I live. and although i know that i could have moved by the time all this happens, but changes should improve all areas in Manchester not concentrated areas where massive changes are happening.

 

[liss]

I'm voting 'NO' as all the benefits seem to be going to areas inside the outer charging ring. Where I live in Stockport, we will be getting 1 extra yellow school bus (whoopee doo), a new bus station (nothing wrong with the present one) and possibly, just possibly a tram link in about 2020 that will take longer than going direct on the train.

If there was only 1 charging ring round the city centre then I could understand it but putting the outer right round the M60 is stupid. What if you usually drive to work from somewhere like Gatley to Didsbury which would involve crossing the M60 and therefore costing you £2 in the morning rush hour and £1 back in the evening. This only takes 10 mins each way.

Doing the same thing by bus could involve a 15 min walk (possibly getting drenched) then a bus into Cheadle, then another bus from Cheadle up past Parrs Wood to Didsbury then a walk to your office. The whole thing could take 45 mins. Plus listening to scallies playing so-called music on their mobiles entertaining the whole bus.

There are 10 boroughs voting but Stockport borough would only see one sixtieth of the total sum.

Not for me thanks. :nono:

i live in the same area as you (i think, by the sounds of it)

i am most definatly voting NO because in no way will it do anything positive towards my area

they say there going to extend the park and ride but there is not enough room for parking as it is etc....

its bloody ridiculous!!!!!!

 

[tiler65]

Whatever the outcome of the vote, the council still have the right to introduce the the bill anyway. Your vote does not count.

 

[Marcel]

Whatever the outcome of the vote, the council still have the right to introduce the the bill anyway. Your vote does not count.

Nope. They have agreed to be bound by the results of the vote.

 

[purpleclouds]

Nope. They have agreed to be bound by the results of the vote.

There were also weapons of mass destruction in Baghdad!

 

[Adamski]

i live in the same area as you (i think, by the sounds of it)

i am most definatly voting NO because in no way will it do anything positive towards my area

they say there going to extend the park and ride but there is not enough room for parking as it is etc....

its bloody ridiculous!!!!!!

I'm in Hazel Grove, where abouts are you then ?

 

[liss]

I'm in Hazel Grove, where abouts are you then ?

Offerton, but i work in Hazel Grove

 

[candlestick]

Did you notice how all the lefties in Chorlton managed to get the inner ring moved during 'consultation' so that they fell within the inner zone and wouldn't have to pay to travel into the city?? What a friggin joke and waste of taxpayers money (which could have been spent on public transport!!??) this whole process is?

Does anybody have figures as to how much this farce will have cost us as council tax payers when it fails to go through??