Mamiya RZ67 flash sync possible issue

Mahoneyd187

Mahoneyd187

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Danny
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Hi all

I've recently started working with an RZ67, during a recent test whilst exposing for a mix of ambient light and flash, I had to use a slower shutter speed. It's quite obvious that the flash is firing at the beginning, and end of the exposure...I have no idea why. Is there a fault? I didnt think of there being some kind of primative ttl metering going on?

If it helps, I'm using a hot shoe mounted Elinchrom Skyport trigger.

Any advice appreciated, I can't find anything on the internet at the moment

Regards

Danny
 
Does the Mamiya have two shutters Danny? One in the body and one in the lens? I use the same triggers on a Bronica SQ and there's no way to get rear sync on that.

What does it do if you connect the body directly to the flash?
 
Kev M said:
Does the Mamiya have two shutters Danny? One in the body and one in the lens? I use the same triggers on a Bronica SQ and there's no way to get rear sync on that.

What does it do if you connect the body directly to the flash?
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Erm...as far as I'm aware the lenses are all leaf shutter so not integral to the body.

I'm happy with just front sync rather than rear....and definately NOT both!!! :cuckoo: lol
 
I just tried it using the sync socket on the lens and its the same thing....anything 1/8 or slower and theres two noticable flashes
 
I don't know how the Mamiya works so I'll just throw ideas out there, but at least you've ruled out a trigger problem.

Is there a PC socket on the body as well as the lens? If so what does this do?

Do you have another lens you can try with it?

Could the 2nd flash be going off as the shutter re-seats itself and not be affecting the exposure?
 
Kev M said:
I don't know how the Mamiya works so I'll just throw ideas out there, but at least you've ruled out a trigger problem.

Is there a PC socket on the body as well as the lens? If so what does this do?

Do you have another lens you can try with it?

Could the 2nd flash be going off as the shutter re-seats itself and not be affecting the exposure?
Click to expand...

Yeah there's a sync socket on the lens, I've hooked the skyport transmitter up to that, and it does the same.

When trying on a shutter speed like 1second, it is evident that the flash goes off a second time when the shutter clicks closed, but i really dont know whether this will contribute to exposure or not :( I've got a feeling I'm gonna have to waste some film testing it out!
 
I just tried it with the back off it....and I can see 2 x flashes through the body...

....rubbish.
 
someone on APUG had a similar problem I believe...

Have you tried with the camera actually attached via a wire, rather than the skyport? It might just be that the wireless poppers are just a little sensitive, and are picking up a little "contact bounce" and triggering twice, where the wire will just trip the once.
 
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Yeah I saw that...but theres no kind of confirmation of whether its actually a fault, and if so, how you fix it :(

PS. Whats CLA'd mean?
 
freecom2 said:
Clean, Lubricated and Adjusted - a service, in plain terms.
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thanks :)

I just tried this with a sync lead and a studio strobe....only front curtain :)

So by using the skyport, either on hot shoe or via sync port, it is causing a flash on both curtains...so I'm assuming it's over sensitive and may be picking up some kind of very brief continuity at rear curtain.

Not a problem...now I know what it is I can work around it :)
 
I thought it might have been a sensitivity issue with the skyport :) - might be worth experimenting with the capacitor trick that was mentioned on apug if you want to keep wireless triggering :thinking:
 
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I think you've found out the answer for yourself now, but it's common with leaf shutters and the second flash, if it occurs at all, is too late to affect the exposure - so don't worry about it.

And the rear shutter isn't really a shutter at all, in the sense that it doesn't have any effect on the exposure.
 
TheBigYin said:
I thought it might have been a sensitivity issue with the skyport :) - might be worth experimenting with the capacitor trick that was mentioned on apug if you want to keep wireless triggering :thinking:
Click to expand...

I may well do if I keep getting unstuck over it, but more often that not I'll be using faster shutter speeds I suspect so it should be fine to continue the skyports. It's only 1/8 or slower, so we'll see. Thanks alot for the info, and you were indeed...spot on :)

Garry Edwards said:
I think you've found out the answer for yourself now, but it's common with leaf shutters and the second flash, if it occurs at all, is too late to affect the exposure - so don't worry about it.

And the rear shutter isn't really a shutter at all, in the sense that it doesn't have any effect on the exposure.
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Hi Garry

I tested it with the film back off, looking through the body of the camera and lens, and I can definately witness both flashes, so in theory at least, it will contribute twice to the exposure. I'm not too worried about overexposure, I'm more inclined to think it might introduce a second ghostly image.

Am I well off the mark? I have no experience with medium format, or film, or leaf shutters, so I'm ****ing in the wind a bit at the moment lol

Thanks

Danny
 
As Gary says, those large flaps in the back of the camera aren't shutters - not in any conventional exposure sense anyway, they're light baffles which protect the film in the mag from exposure to light when you're not actually taking an exposure (and the dark slide is removed obviously)

When you press the shutter, the mirror flies up out of the way and those two large baffles actually fly up too to admit light to the film. It's these two functions working together which is responsible for the impressive thunder clap you get when you press the shutter! :D

When you advance the the large lever on the side to reset the shutter for the next shot, both the mirror and the baffles are retuned to their former positions.
 
CT said:
As Gary says, those large flaps in the back of the camera aren't shutters - not in any conventional exposure sense anyway, they're light baffles which protect the film in the mag from exposure to light when you're not actually taking an exposure (and the dark slide is removed obviously)

When you press the shutter, the mirror flies up out of the way and those two large baffles actually fly up too to admit light to the film. It's these two functions working together which is responsible for the impressive thunder clap you get when you press the shutter! :D

When you advance the the large lever on the side to reset the shutter for the next shot, both the mirror and the baffles are retuned to their former positions.
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Yeah I do get that. But I looked through the back, with the film back removed, so my eye ball was basically where the film is. So if I saw 2 flashes...wouldnt the film?
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Yeah I do get that. But I looked through the back, with the film back removed, so my eye ball was basically where the film is. So if I saw 2 flashes...wouldnt the film?
Click to expand...

Yes - if you definitely saw two flashes then the shutter must have still been open.
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
thanks :)

I just tried this with a sync lead and a studio strobe....only front curtain :)

So by using the skyport, either on hot shoe or via sync port, it is causing a flash on both curtains...so I'm assuming it's over sensitive and may be picking up some kind of very brief continuity at rear curtain.

Not a problem...now I know what it is I can work around it :)
Click to expand...

You don't have front or rear curtain sync (or curtains actually) with your RZ67 Danny, those functions are peculiar to focal plane shutters. Your Mamiya has a leaf type shutter. The X flash contact is just a simple switch, but the advantage is you aren't limited to a max flash sync speed - the flash will sync right up the fastest shutter speed of your lens.
 
CT said:
You don't have front or rear curtain sync (or curtains actually) with your RZ67 Danny, those functions are peculiar to focal plane shutters. Your Mamiya has a leaf type shutter. The X flash contact is just a simple switch, but the advantage is you aren't limited to a max flash sync speed - the flash will sync right up the fastest shutter speed of your lens.
Click to expand...

Yeah I get that now, I was using them terms to try and describe the beginning and end of the shutter duration lol. My bad, and very misleading lol
 
String said:
Plug the flash directly into the socket and ensure its set to X sync.
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The lens sync port has an "X" next to it...I dont believe I can set it any other way if I try.

Any shutter speed faster than 1/8th and I can use my skyport just fine, anything slower and it's gotta be sync lead to lens if I just want a single flash.

Unless I want a cool ghostly effect, then I'll be "down with the kids" :thumbs:
 
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