make a model 'pop' from the background

evilonion

evilonion

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Dave Peacock
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Probably quite a basic question but I'm wondering what sort of settings i should be aiming towards.
If i have a model standing/crouching on a set of stairs in a building leaning towards the camera, i want to make her lit up but the stairs to remain quite dark.

dont know what the forum rules are regarding posting links to other peoples work?
I know some people can get a bit defensive about it at times.

I was thinking maybe on camera flash but with some sort of snoot/diffuser etc, but arrange it so most of the light falls onto the model.
Apart from that idea my mind is blank.

Been trying to get my head around how various pictures are lit today so i can start experimenting more.
 
If you want the background to be dark etc then put your camera in manual, ISO100 and 1/125 F8-F18 should see the effect very well. However without knowing the power of your lights, this may need some adjustment and trial and error on your part.

Put your flash on a tripod or lightstand for best results. What camera are you shooting with, what flash do you have?

Some work better outdoors than others when using inbuilt flash as a trigger.. My Jessops AFD360 was useless in that respect.

Have a look at my selfies in the people and portraits section..

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=260125

All except number four was lit with one head. 4 was two heads one with a 20 degree honeycomb with orange gel.
 
http://jaimeibarra.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d2rx3zx

this is the effect im trying to understand.
i know a lot of pp work has been done here, but the main thing i struggle with, with on camera flash is making the person lit, and the background dark. (without putting too much light onto the model)

With the above image the left side has light fall on the steps, i would want this darker also.

Is it something that would all be done pp, or is there a method used?

In my head i imagine it would be something like a diffuser etc aimed at the model/object directing the light just to them.

Trouble i was having when i did a shoot the other day is if i deirected the flash at the model i was getting large dark shadows behind them as the flash was i assume, too bright.

In jaimeibarra's photo he has managed to light up the model without causing harsh shadows.
 
Thanks for posting Simon,
I use a D300 with an SB900 flashgun.

I see the effect you have done, and what im after i guess is similar but a lot softer...
In the link above she has quite soft shadows and the lighting seems to be quite diffused.
Im finding that when i take shots like it the background is either completely lit up, or, it has harsh shadows because the flashgun is filling the entire area with light...
 
evilonion said:
Thanks for posting Simon,
I use a D300 with an SB900 flashgun.

I see the effect you have done, and what im after i guess is similar but a lot softer...
In the link above she has quite soft shadows and the lighting seems to be quite diffused.
Im finding that when i take shots like it the background is either completely lit up, or, it has harsh shadows because the flashgun is filling the entire area with light...
Click to expand...

You need more than one light, you need several, all diffused.

I'll give you a tip. If you zoom into her face, you can just make out the catch lights.
 
To me the flash appears to be lower left, probably through a softbox or shoot through umbrella. trying to think of how the BG is turned blue.. Could just be the ambient light and time of day etc.

Basically what I said before. Manual mode with camera in Flash WB this way you control the ambient light to reduce it while correctly exposing the model...

Going to try something and then post again....
 
Danny, how would having more lights help? trying to understand that... more light would mean more shadows? or am i getting this wrong?

Simon, thanks for that ill have a play with the gels ive got next time.
I have a feeling it was probably done pp in this picture but i might be wrong again :)

just read your last post, thanks for the information, ill give it a go :)
 
evilonion said:
Thanks for posting Simon,
I use a D300 with an SB900 flashgun.

I see the effect you have done, and what im after i guess is similar but a lot softer...
In the link above she has quite soft shadows and the lighting seems to be quite diffused.
Im finding that when i take shots like it the background is either completely lit up, or, it has harsh shadows because the flashgun is filling the entire area with light...
Click to expand...

No worries.. Been playing to see if there are cheats you could do.. If you see my other posts I mention diffusers and some things that I have just tried with my jessops flash..

Plenty of BluePeter style bodges you can do..... For the same result.
 
evilonion said:
but the main thing i struggle with, with on camera flash is making the person lit, and the background dark.
Click to expand...
I think there's your problem. On camera. You need to get off camera.

A great resource for looking at how to do this is the very talented strobist. See: http://strobist.blogspot.com/
 
I have the free Lee gels, and chose a very weak orange gel for the quick test shot of my ugly mug, if it would help to post one let me know..

Probably ISO200 anf F5.6 would work in a similar location to your linked image.
 
As Arad and I said, get the flash off the camera the SB900 has an IR receiver built in, go into the menu of your camera Custom setting menu> E. Bracketing/Flash>E3Flashcontrol>Commandermode> and set the inbuilt flash setting to -- this will mean the inbuilt flash will not affect the exposure, so all your light will come from the SB900..
 
Jaffster said:
You need more than one light, you need several, all diffused.

I'll give you a tip. If you zoom into her face, you can just make out the catch lights.
Click to expand...

Rough Edges said:
To me the flash appears to be lower left, probably through a softbox or shoot through umbrella. trying to think of how the BG is turned blue.. Could just be the ambient light and time of day etc.
Click to expand...

To reitterate what Jaffster said, there's more than one light in that shot, have a look at the shoulders.....
 
I'm all for blue peter bodges, i have a ringflash i made from flowerpots.

Could someone explain why i would need more than one light?
I was always under the impression that it would be for 2 reasons:
1: high ambient light so more flash to counter this... ie bright sun etc
2: refresh rate for the flashguns as you can use a lower powered setting so you can shoot more.

Or is it that in this picture he has a flash left and one to the right?
All the light seems to be coming from below as the shadows are on the tops of her arms.
in the eyes its looks like 2 white dots left and a white dot right.

andy, im going to invest in a stand, will be off camera at the next shoot.

Simon thanks for thank information, ill definatly use those settings, i knew the d300 could control the flashes but never knew how to actually do it correctly without the onboard flash interferring.
 
Simon are the jessops flashguns any good?
They look similar to a rebranded chinese flash i had on my sony.
I could always get one as a second flash.
I have been borrowing my friends sb900 and was considering making the purchase as they seem really good, couldnt afford 2 at the moment though.

Other option would be 2 or 3 of the jessops ones...
 
evilonion said:
Simon are the jessops flashguns any good?
They look similar to a rebranded chinese flash i had on my sony.
I could always get one as a second flash.
I have been borrowing my friends sb900 and was considering making the purchase as they seem really good, couldnt afford 2 at the moment though.

Other option would be 2 or 3 of the jessops ones...
Click to expand...

To be honest, not if you want to do strobist stuff outdoors without radio triggers... The Jessops flash is a pain in this respect.. You would be better off with a Yongnuo with RF602 triggers.. Not sure if Flash in the Pan has any Nikon ones left...

You could get a pair of Yongnuos and triggers for less than the cost of one SB900!

There are some great videos on Youtube too.. Dom Bower does some funny vids.. Changed recently to Dome bower Photo and have a look at the videos as mentioned by Flash.. I had a look at their youtube stuff and webpage, very informative..
 
People will over-PP when all they need to do is to get the lighting right in the first place:'( Life isn't complicated, so keep it simple:)

If you want a different colour on the background just gel the flash with a gel of the complementary colour, in this case orange. As the power of the light falls off, the background will become progressively darker and more blue.

The closer the flash is to the subject, the darker the background will become, and vice versa. Lighting used in photography broadly follows the Inverse Square Law, so google inverse square law and then make use of it to get the effects you want.

Multiple flash heads are used to create different lighting effects, e.g. to produce shadows that show the subject at its best, they are not used to create more light, it's all about quality, not quantity. Going from the flat quality and the low angle of the light, my guess is that this is just an on camera flashgun, which doesn't do a very good job IMO, but I haven't studied the example shot enough to be sure about that.
 
ah ok so by keeping the flash close to the model you restrict the amount of shadow due to the amount of light fall-off being reduced...

The colour isn't so much of an issue for me as it's something i havent started trying to get my head around yet (i get confused enough as it is!) :)
although im trying to understand how if the background is blue, she isnt blue as well...

The main thing i've been trying to get right is how to light the model up nice and bright, and have the background darker without the harsh shadows.

Pictures i have taken in the past have the model lit up and the wall lit up as well... then if i go any brighter with the flash harsh shadows start to appear (im assuming this is down to me not using something like a softbox or umbrella)

I was thinking a ringflash might have worked well for the above shot?

Another question i have, is how will i set the f number of my flash?
Ive been reading through strobist and other resources and they mention things such as having iso 100, shutter 1/125, A f8 etc with a flash setting of f11,f8 etc...
My flash, and all the ones ive used have 1/1 1/2 1/4 and so on.
 
To cut through all the reams of advice and get to the nub of what you are asking.

Get the light off camera
You're creating two exposures one for the background and one for the subject, but magically you can do this with one click of the button (once you know how)
Read the strobist stuff.
Go and buy the lighten up and shoot V-Book. It's a tenner, explains all you need to know, and does it in a light hearted way. It's not super techy, and it's not gear obsessed pixel peeping cr@p either.

Get it here
 
Last edited:
evilonion said:
Another question i have, is how will i set the f number of my flash?
Ive been reading through strobist and other resources and they mention things such as having iso 100, shutter 1/125, A f8 etc with a flash setting of f11,f8 etc...
My flash, and all the ones ive used have 1/1 1/2 1/4 and so on.
Click to expand...
You don't set the F number of the flash. When you're in manual mode, all you are doing is setting the output power of the flash. the 1/1 is full power whilst 1/128 (on my 580EXII) is 1/128th power or 7 stops lower in power. Each "stop" is equivalent to a halving of the power. This is because each full stop on a lens lets in half the light. Half the power = half the light = a "stop".

Unfortunately, you'll have to experiment with your flash as 1/1 on a 580EXII is a different amount of light to 1/1 of a 430EXII, but (allegedly) you'll get to know what is right.

As to background vs foreground illumination, I think it is easier to think of in terms of continuous and instantaneous light. The flash provides instantaneous light whilst everything else provides continuous light. What you do is set your exposure without the flash firing to get the exposure you want from the background taking into account aperture and the fastest shutter speed your camera will do (it won't work if your shutter is set at 1/1000 and your maximum x-sync is 1/200 - 4/5ths of your subject won't be exposed). Then you dial in the power on the flash to give you the desired exposure on your subject. The continuous light will expose the background to whatever your exposure is set, whilst the flash will expose what it is pointing to with the instantaneous light.

To make the background 1 stop darker, just up the f number by 1 stop. To keep the foreground the same exposure when the f number is increased by 1 stop, double the flash power (if you were at 1/64 move it to 1/32). The background is made darker, the foreground stays the same.

Simples (although I have yet to do this in anger - all my off camera stuff has just been ordered ;))
 
Andy, thanks, makes sense.
Little lightbulb has just binged in my brain.

I've read quite a lot of the strobist stuff but i'll get that book ordered as well :)

Need to get myself some off camera equipment as well now, light stands etc :)
 
ah ok so by keeping the flash close to the model you restrict the amount of shadow due to the amount of light fall-off being reduced...
Click to expand...
No, that isn't what I said at all. What I said was
The closer the flash is to the subject, the darker the background will become, and vice versa. Lighting used in photography broadly follows the Inverse Square Law, so google inverse square law and then make use of it to get the effects you want.
Click to expand...
I was thinking a ringflash might have worked well for the above shot?
Click to expand...
It might, but a ringflash is just a tool, like any other, and having different tools doesn't help if you don't understand how they work
 
Get the v-book ordered, it explains the inverse square law etc in simple (ie even I can uderstand it :lol:)terms
 
evilonion said:
Andy, thanks, makes sense.
Little lightbulb has just binged in my brain.
Click to expand...
:D

The other thing to add is that to separate fore from background with the flash, you have to think where to put the flash. There comes the inverse square law. Doubling the distance from the flash means you need 4x the power for the same effect, but moving the flash also changes the amount of light hitting the surroundings.

Lets say you have a flash at 1m to the subject and the background is 1m behind. The light that falls on the background will be about 1/4 the power of the flash (inverse square law). Now say you move the flash to 0.5m. To get the same subject exposure, you halve the flash output, but this has the consequence of reducing the background to (I think - just trying to get my head around this at the mo) 1/9th the power of the original flash. Thus your background has much less light power hitting it from the flash making it less exposed from the flash burst.
 
wow, its 1.4gb in size... going to take a while to download!

Garry, i know it's not what you said... my brain was thinking out loud sorry.
by being closer to the model you are putting more light onto the model than the background etc.

im sure the book will make sense to me.
 
arad85 said:
Now say you move the flash to 0.5m. To get the same subject exposure, you halve the flash output,
Click to expand...
Oops, no, I think you quarter it (inverse square law)!

arad85 said:
but this has the consequence of reducing the background to (I think - just trying to get my head around this at the mo) 1/9th the power of the original flash.
Click to expand...
And I can't get my head around what it actually is - too late in the day, but you get the idea ;)
 
i'm on 4mb but for some reason the download link is running at 20k
It often does this in this area once all the kids are back from school.
Everything goes at a snail pace from about 3pm-7pm
 
I just want to say a big thankyou to those that recomended the ebook to me.
What a fantastic book!!!!

so simple! and the genius square makes perfect sense with everything.

Going to order some bits this week so i can start having a proper play with it all :)


One thing im wondering though, as its mainly for outdoor strobe work, is it worth me buying a new sb-900 and a softbox etc.
OR would i be better off buying some of the cheaper flashguns with the triggers they recomend?

I'm wondering if i would ever actually need the full extra power of the sb-900
I could get 2 sb600's secondhand for the price of one sb-900 new...?
 
An Sb900 will be a great buy, built well and the inbuilt ir receiver works well outdoors, though if you want more than one light go for the Yongnuo lights with triggers... More cash for other accessories then.....

I would go for the 900 over the 600...
 
If you're going to use a set of triggers then an SB24/25/26/28/80 will do the job for a fraction of the price of an SB900...
 
Flash In The Pan said:
If you're going to use a set of triggers then an SB24/25/26/28/80 will do the job for a fraction of the price of an SB900...
Click to expand...

What he said.

I don't think the SB600 has a PC socket, so pointless buying one really.

I have an SB900 and rarely use it, it was bought on a whim to go all McNally with TTL, but I just keep coming back to manual and the cheap as chips SB's listed above when I don't need the 600Ws of the Safari and I'm out and about.
 
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