Tutorial Make a lighting honeycomb that actually works . . .

Garry Edwards

Garry Edwards

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Garry Edwards submitted a new resource:

Make a lighting honeycomb that actually works . . . - The perfect hard light is often a honeycomb or, as our American friends call it, a grid.

If you’ve read my ramblings before you’ll know that I strongly believe that knowledge trumps gear, and with just a basic understanding of the purpose of photographic lighting, we can manage with very little gear – it’s all about light placement, height, angle, purpose, not about spending money unnecessarily.

But, unless we always go for bland, soft lighting, we do need to be able to create hard, directional lighting. At its most basic, a soft light is a big light and a hard light is a small...
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In the USA the 7" diameter grids/honeycombs are available in ten degree increments from 10 - 60 degrees. They came from China, through Adorama in NY City, so they should be available everywhere.

The photo attached was lit by a Godox SK400 studio strobe with 7" reflector and 7" 10 degree grid located 5' away from the roses. The shot is unedited, direct from the camera, with only the file size adjusted. I later removed the reflected glare of the light on the lower part of the vase in editing, but I wanted to show the shot as it was taken here, just as it came from the camera. My intent was only to light the flowers, but minor light spread provided just enough light to allow the vase and table to be seen. I could have adjusted the camera or brightness of the light, or blocked the light hitting the vase from being seen in the shot or edited them out, but I decided that I liked this result and left it with just the removal of the shiny reflection on the vase for my final shot.

This was posted to let you see how well that you can control the diameter of your studio light or speedlite with a low angle grid/honeycomb. No snoot was used. I have them, but prefer the low angle grids most of the time. I would be interested if anyone knows where to get smaller ready made grids that would fit in the end of my snoots. I considered buying another set of the 10-60 degree 7" diameter grids and modifying them to fit the snoots, but haven't done this, yet. I may resort to the black straw method before I invest in a set of grids to cut up, but I'm wishing that the straws came in different diameters too. I have used the straws, but found that the grid that I made was about equivalent to a 50 degree grid. I may make another grid from longer straw pieces to see if that helps.

I'm a maker/creator and always have been my whole life. I was an EE, but worked easily in many fields of machine automation over most of my paying career. I'm retired now, but I'm still experimenting with light for photography ,in a home studio that I built about 6 years ago. It had been a 2nd master bedroom suite, not being used, and upstairs in my home. The shooting room is 19 X 26', but with an 8' ceiling (my biggest limitation) but I have come up with a few ways to work around it.

Charley




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CharleyL said:
In the USA the 7" diameter grids/honeycombs are available in ten degree increments from 10 - 60 degrees. They came from China, through Adorama in NY City, so they should be available everywhere.



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Thanks for that. We can get the same thing here, from 10 - 40 degrees at least, from China, but they aren't very good. Someone once told me that they're made from material used for aircon machinery, not really the right thing at all but all there is.

Some Chinese manufacturers still produce 7 inch standard reflectors but others don't, they tend to go for smaller ones that don't even have a lip, and one flash that I have, a Visico 5, although excellent in terms of performance, is slightly undersized and won't accept a honeycomb - why can't they get a simple thing like that right? So, why not just fit a different standard reflector? It's supposed to be S-fit but isn't, S-fit only nearly fits. Sadly, this is the way that lighting equipment supply is now going, too little competition and zero interest in making the things that we actually need.

My own very special honeycomb has an angle of either 2 or 3 degrees, I think I paid about $400 for it when I worked in NY, a lifetime ago, no longer available. It's a brilliant bit of kit, totally irreplaceable.

So, I came up with a solution - I designed a special standard reflector that has a very deep lip, allowing 2 honeycombs to be used together, to produce a very tight result. It was a struggle to get made, it took 3 years in total, and when we did finally get them they sold very slowly. I think it goes without saying that I have one:)
 
I took a moment today to search for black plastic straws in different diameters, and came up with several manufacturers of them from 3.5 mm diameter up to 12 mm.
When life gives me the chance, I'll be contacting them to see where I can buy them in the various sizes that they make and many different lengths. I'll post what I find, when I find it.

Charley
 
Does the shininess of the straws make any (real) difference to the performance of the rig or is the bounced light all but irrelevant compared to the direct light?
 
Nod said:
Does the shininess of the straws make any (real) difference to the performance of the rig or is the bounced light all but irrelevant compared to the direct light?
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I suppose that, in theory, the shinyness at the extreme sharp end of the straws could cause light to bounce around, but very much doubt whether it matters. If I'm wrong about that then a matt black spray from a rattle can would solve it.
 
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A mate used to use black straws from his local pub (scrounged) they seemed to work fine.
 
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I think painting the inside of straws would be difficult, but it might help if you can pull it off. Maybe a cotton swab with flat black paint would work. A longer piece of straw might also help. The grids/honeycombs that are available for easy purchase are quite thin. They are relatively flat black inside, but I think longer holes would do a better job, even if they were shiny inside.

This deserves some research by all of us. Time to find some black straws of different diameters and experiment. The grid manufacturers in China don't seem to be interested. I'm not able to spend time on this now, but will when I can get the chance. So, I hope you all can beat me in this endeavor.

If you can't find sources near you, I can post what I found in the USA for sources of different manufacturers of the black straws. It's usually easy for them to tell where you can buy their products in small quantities once you find the manufacturers. Sometimes, even samples can be sent by manufacturers if you explain why you want them. They (every manufacturer) are always looking for ways to increase their production volumes. A new product that will use what they make is always interesting.

Charley
 
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swanseamale47 said:
A mate used to use black straws from his local pub (scrounged) they seemed to work fine.
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Yes, I did mention that, 'And the easiest substitute can be made from drinking straws, which need to be black both inside and out. Weatherspoons have them, so do good pubs, but they're also dirt cheap online.'

CharleyL said:
I think painting the inside of straws would be difficult, but it might help if you can pull it off. Maybe a cotton swab with flat black paint would work. A longer piece of straw might also help. The grids/honeycombs that are available for easy purchase are quite thin. They are relatively flat black inside, but I think longer holes would do a better job, even if they were shiny inside.

This deserves some research by all of us. Time to find some black straws of different diameters and experiment. The grid manufacturers in China don't seem to be interested. I'm not able to spend time on this now, but will when I can get the chance. So, I hope you all can beat me in this endeavor.

If you can't find sources near you, I can post what I found in the USA for sources of different manufacturers of the black straws. It's usually easy for them to tell where you can buy their products in small quantities once you find the manufacturers. Sometimes, even samples can be sent by manufacturers if you explain why you want them. They (every manufacturer) are always looking for ways to increase their production volumes. A new product that will use what they make is always interesting.

Charley
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Logic (but not maths, which I haven't done) tells me that smaller diameters are better, based entirely on my special honeycomb, which has incredibly small holes, but if you can't get small then have the straws long.

EDIT. I've found a phone pic of my special honeycomb, showing just how small the holes are are how thick it is, compared to the honeycombs that are available today.
honeycomb.jpg
As you can see, the so-called standard reflector on this Chinese light is the wrong size:(
 
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Have you tried putting it in backwards? The frame needs to fit, but the rest can hang out beyond the reflector.


Charley
 
No, but it doesn't matter, I simply fit it to a proper 7" standard reflector and fit it to another light, Lencarta SmartFlash 3, which is a true S-fit - the Visico light doesn't accept it, although it should.
 
The manufacturers of Black Soda Straws in the USA are -

WOW Plastics - many different lengths from 5.5 inches up to 20" No info about diameters.

US-Straws - Many standard lengths and diameters from 3.5mm up to 12 mm. You could probably sip chunky soup with the 12mm

AmerCareRoyal - Many different lengths and "Colossal" options, whatever that is.

Best Diamond Plastics LLC - Various plastic products including straws. No details available.

KARAT - A distributor offering straws of 5mm, 8mm, and 10mm.

I haven't spent the time to contact any of them, yet. Just too much happening in my life right now for much photography and research/experimenting.


Charley
 
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Good luck. I pretty much gave up on purchasing from Ebay. More scams than good results. My last purchase was a lens cap holder that attached to the camera strap. It looked good, was 3D printed, but the lens caps wouldn't stay attached. On close inspection the lens cap hole was smooth. Lens caps need threads or an inside taper for them to grip to. He offered to refund 1.3 of my money if I returned them. The shipping cost was more than what he offered for the return. A SCAM Artist. I still have them and offer them free if someone wants to pay the shipping for them. Probably no one here, because sending across the pond gets expensive quick. If they get in my way one more time they are getting trashed. I tend to only use the 10 and 20 degree myself. I can't remember when I used the others, if I did at all. I have two sets of the 10-60 sizes, each set in a zip lock plastic bag to keep them together and clean.

Charley
 
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CharleyL said:
Good luck. I pretty much gave up on purchasing from Ebay. More scams than good results. My last purchase was a lens cap holder that attached to the camera strap. It looked good, was 3D printed, but the lens caps wouldn't stay attached. On close inspection the lens cap hole was smooth. Lens caps need threads or an inside taper for them to grip to. He offered to refund 1.3 of my money if I returned them. The shipping cost was more than what he offered for the return. A SCAM Artist. I still have them and offer them free if someone wants to pay the shipping for them. Probably no one here, because sending across the pond gets expensive quick. If they get in my way one more time they are getting trashed. I tend to only use the 10 and 20 degree myself. I can't remember when I used the others, if I did at all. I have two sets of the 10-60 sizes, each set in a zip lock plastic bag to keep them together and clean.

Charley
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Just arrived and it's identical to those sold by retailers in the UK at a much higher price, so a good buy.
 
10 degree arrived, very tidy. I am going to order another.

Just looking through it and a slight tilt throws everything black except the bit you want to highlight.
 
It should. With a 10 degree honeycomb a tilt of more than 10 degrees should block all light. If you get another one, and tape them together, you'll get an unknown but even more restrictive tool. Smple tools like this are indispensable :)
 
No stock left of the 10.

Doh
 
I'm pretty sure that there's just one Chinese manufacturer, so should be a safe bet
 
This was taken using a Godox SK400 studio light, 7"reflector, and 10 degree Chinese grid (honeycomb). This was the second shot taken with this setup.Shot 1, also included below, was a bit too bright for the mood that I was looking for. I cut down the light power a bit so the vase and table top were only lit with spilled light from the one studio flash that was aimed to light only the flowers from about 5' distance. Yo can see the result below, Thanks to the Inverse Square law, you can't see any of my gear that was stashed behind this shot, as I didn't use a backdrop. This was just a planned experiment, to see just how small of a light spread could be attained using the 10 degree, but so many were interested that I have printed and given away many copies of shot 2. A smaller flash could have been used, as this 400 w/s flash was nowhere near it's max power, but I don't remember what setting that it was. When using these grids, a lot of light is lost, as only the light coming straight from the source makes it through. A lot of the light is wasted, but necessary for this kind of shot.

I've used the 10, 20, and 30 degree grids (honeycombs) quite often, though I have two sets of 10-60 in 10 degree increments. I had bought the two sets of 20, 40, and 60, but then later found the 10, 30, and 50 in another set, so bought two sets of them and combined them with the first two sets, so I now have the full range in 10 degree increments. This shot was actually my first attempt at using the 10 degree, but it has been used many times since. I've grown quite fond of using them for many kinds of shots.

Charley
 

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The standard grid shoved into the front of the reflector don't take advantage of the enormous flexibility of the grids. I wish I had access to an English wheel, it would be easy to knock up an adapter to enable movement of the grid in the reflector housing, the level of precision would be incredible.
 
I made a homebrew snoot out of cardboard, which worked pretty well.

Finally the drinking straws I ordered arrived; 260mm x 6mm. Packed those into the snoot. It worked perfectly, with a far tighter control of spread than previously.

The only downsides?

i) Well, the snoot is slightly larger than the area of the straws, it requires very careful handling to avoid playing spillikins (I wonder if anyone remembers playing that as a child).
ii) The whole set up is so front heavy that the flashgun droops. Oh, and remember problem i)? Well you are quickly reminded of that.

All good clean fun!
 
straighten the flashgun and support it on a book, take the weight off the hinge
 
Barney said:
straighten the flashgun and support it on a book, take the weight off the hinge
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Thanks Wayne. I hope that this morning's shopping will render my experimental version redundant, but it was an interesting experiment. I estimated that the effective angle of spread was about three degrees.
 
That's great, its still handy to have it available, you cant have to many lights. :)

If its a hardback book you can open the pages somewhere put something inside and then adjust angle downward from you stack, a large stable platform, you could even hook the feet of your stand over the edge stop it falling off.

What have you got?
 
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