Mad? I'm ****** Seething!

goldenlight

goldenlight

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I've just heard that a photographer whom I really like and respect has given up. Sold all his gear and deleted all his online libraries.

Why? Because he was accused of improper behaviour for taking pictures of his own kids by a paraniod parent and subsequently suffered a torrent of abusive messages and finger pointing in public.

He was a keen photographer who loves his kids - where's the harm in that?

At the moment I'm incandescent with rage! :razz: I've had comments made to me when photographing my own daughter. The next time that happens I won't just shrug it off and let it go. I'll chase after them if necessary. I'm going to rip someone's head off and give them both fully loaded barrels. They'll go home with their head in their hanky rueing the day they ever dared to cross my path! :razz::razz::razz:
 
Some people just act differently to situations like it I suppose. Personally I am the kind of person who wants to go out togging even more after things like that. Is it a member on here?
 
it's the world we live in.

he shouldn't have to delete all his online gallerys and give it up though. i know i wouldn't. can't he prove his innocence by telling everyone it was his daughter?
 
sparkoss said:
it's the world we live in.

he shouldn't have to delete all his online gallerys and give it up though. i know i wouldn't. can't he prove his innocence by telling everyone it was his daughter?
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Sadly it's not the world we live in just the country, with it's paranoia. :'(
 
Its the same old paranoia and a sad thing when someone has to give up his passion due to the ignorance of a few, if only takes one person to make a comment for a whole raft of "concerned parents" to jump on the band wagon.

I guess it does depend on someones personallity as to how they react I most certainly wouldn't give the idiots the satisfaction of giving up and deleting everything this makes it look like he had sumthing to hide (I am not suggesting at all that he did). I think it must be different here in NI I have been manys a place all over from local markets and town centres to the coast and parks and never once have I had a funny look or has anyone approcahed me. If anything people ask me what sort of shots I am getting lol.

Anywho hope the photographer reconsiders and gets back at it.
 
sparkoss said:
it's the world we live in.

he shouldn't have to delete all his online gallerys and give it up though. i know i wouldn't. can't he prove his innocence by telling everyone it was his daughter?
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With the media the way it is that would probably just make things worse.
 
Hmm I had my first 'run in' the other day. Not a nice experience at all. I can totally see where the guy is coming from thinking 'its not worth it' afterwards. I actually (stupidly) started to feel guilty for taking the camera out to a local open space/wildlife area where I got accosted. :cuckoo:

All of the above is a kneejerk reaction, and a few hours later I thought to myself that I love photography far too much to let some small minded bar stewards harm my hobby and quickly was out snapping again.

Sorry to hear about your friend. I guess all you can do is gently encourage him to think about the situation and that there really is nothing to feel guilty about and to get out togging again.
 
This is bizarre. I don't know anything about the matter, but no-one has to prove that they are "innocent" of wrongdoing.

I am convinced that the only way to put a stop to the malicious and perverse targeting of photographers is to institute legal proceedings, both criminal and civil if possible, against the other party(ies). A few successful prosecutions and awards of substantial damages might give some of the instigators pause for thought. People must learn that making unfounded, and serious, allegations can have significant consequences.
 
It is just this country that has sunk to these levels due to our scare mongering gutter press :razz:

I belong to quite a few sites & lots of friends in the rest of Europe can not understand why people kick off when they publish pics of thier kids on the beach or toddlers running around naked !!!

We all need to stand up for our rights, if you are photographing your kids (or others with permission) then do not let these uneducated idiots bring you down to thier levels.
:bang::bang::bang:
 
he is an idiot then


goldenlight said:
I've just heard that a photographer whom I really like and respect has given up. Sold all his gear and deleted all his online libraries.

Why? Because he was accused of improper behaviour for taking pictures of his own kids by a paraniod parent and subsequently suffered a torrent of abusive messages and finger pointing in public.

He was a keen photographer who loves his kids - where's the harm in that?

At the moment I'm incandescent with rage! :razz: I've had comments made to me when photographing my own daughter. The next time that happens I won't just shrug it off and let it go. I'll chase after them if necessary. I'm going to rip someone's head off and give them both fully loaded barrels. They'll go home with their head in their hanky rueing the day they ever dared to cross my path! :razz::razz::razz:
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MartynK said:
This is bizarre. I don't know anything about the matter, but no-one has to prove that they are "innocent" of wrongdoing...........
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Too true Martyn but sadly not in practice.

If you consider the rules for compensation in respect of wrongful imprisonment, it appears that it is insufficient merely to have the charges dismissed. Take for instance the recent cases of Barry George and Sean Jenkins where it was ruled that neither could claim compensation even though they have been released through lack of evidence. They had to prove they were innocent of the charges to have a legitimate claim for compensation.

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?


:(
 
Wow. Two extreme reactions - was this the first time he'd been confronted like this? I wouldn't like to think that somebody's comments/accusations would end my photography. Let's hope he doesn't regret it in the future.
I do agree with the comment on lawsuits - a couple of big ones, headlined in the press and people might think differently but until our world changes - and it's not just this country - then people will always think the worst....
 
Might I just ask how much we actually know about this case? Sorry but the OP is quite vague and it sounds a little like a rumour.

I agree the hysteria in this country is crazy but I would be interested to know what exactly is supposed to have happened.
 
You have to stand up to these people. It has only happened to me once. They didn't get the reaction they were expecting. After offering to show three men and one stupid old woman the pictures I had taken (no kids in any shot) they wern't interested in seeing them, just wanted a lynching. They backed off very quickly when I stood up and pointed out I WOULD defend myself. The press have a lot to answer for. Unfortunately a few people and it is a few are not intelligent enough to form their own opinions.
 
Well I use Flickr because I can put up family pics and then restrict them solely to the family.

I must admit I had this happen to me when someone saw me taking pics where there were children.

They reported me to a park warden who wanted to know if I had any pics of kids on my camera - I showed him the pics of swans etc and he was quite happy.

Another time though I was taking pics of my family and their kids on swings at a local park and people were actually stopping walking in front of me so that they wouldn't spoil my shot - so I think it works both ways.

But it does mean that all those wonderful street shots of kids just being kids that we used to see in magazines in the 50s and 60s are simply never going to be taken because of morons.

.
 
Dave Stone said:
You have to stand up to these people. It has only happened to me once. They didn't get the reaction they were expecting. After offering to show three men and one stupid old woman the pictures I had taken (no kids in any shot) they wern't interested in seeing them, just wanted a lynching. They backed off very quickly when I stood up and pointed out I WOULD defend myself. The press have a lot to answer for. Unfortunately a few people and it is a few are not intelligent enough to form their own opinions.
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was that in southampton?
 
petersmart said:
Well I use Flickr because I can put up family pics and then restrict them solely to the family.

I must admit I had this happen to me when someone saw me taking pics where there were children.

They reported me to a park warden who wanted to know if I had any pics of kids on my camera - I showed him the pics of swans etc and he was quite happy.

Another time though I was taking pics of my family and their kids on swings at a local park and people were actually stopping walking in front of me so that they wouldn't spoil my shot - so I think it works both ways.

But it does mean that all those wonderful street shots of kids just being kids that we used to see in magazines in the 50s and 60s are simply never going to be taken because of morons.

.
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:thumbs: Utterly true and a very sad thing that archive photographs of that nature will no longer be taken:shake:
 
I'd be seething too.

In my case because the photographer gave in to the scrotes and packed it all in.
 
I really have no idea how I would react if confronted, to be honest I am struggling to comprehend the mind set of some of the population, perhaps because I live in a backwater!!!

They don't appear to be so brave at confronting gangs or muggers.
I'm sorry to say I don't think anything will happen to stop this until someone gets seriously hurt
 
Houston1863 said:
Too true Martyn but sadly not in practice.

If you consider the rules for compensation in respect of wrongful imprisonment, it appears that it is insufficient merely to have the charges dismissed. Take for instance the recent cases of Barry George and Sean Jenkins where it was ruled that neither could claim compensation even though they have been released through lack of evidence. They had to prove they were innocent of the charges to have a legitimate claim for compensation.

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?


:(
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Yes, I know. There are some exceptions, and quasi-exceptions. I'm aware of them, but I'm not a lawyer and don't pretend to fully understand them. Bit OT, but I also dislike the revised caution - the bit about harming your defence if you don't mention something when questioned, and subsequently try to rely on it - because it compromises the right of silence. This has nothing to do with being tough on criminals, it just erodes another right that we should all value.

Back to the point! I don't know the OP or anything about this case, but that doesn't really matter. It seems to have enough commonality with well publicised cases to be worth giving it some attention. Grumbling on photographic forums is a good way of venting anger, and giving everyone a chance to say what they would do, but it doesn't really achieve anything at all. The only way to stop these miscreants is the threat of a conviction or having to pay heavy damages.
 
One of these days I'm sure I'll end up wrapping that magnesium alloy casing around someones head.

I was called a p***, nonce etc by someone on brighton pier. I've never taken pictures of kids in a candid way since.

The picture? Guy sitting on a bench smiling at his hardly visible baby that was reaching up to squeeze his nose.

The thing is, when such strong language is used to accuse you of something that you're totally against to the very core of your character it kinda hurts quite badly.

So now, f*** em, because it will bite them all on the bum one day.

On the other side though, I can take pictures of an 11 year olds birthday party and put them all over facebook and flickr. Different parents, different attitudes.
 
Name the tog i say! Maybe try and convince them to change thier mind....

When the day comes that i'll be taking pictues of my kids (ooh about 6 mnths away :thumbs:) i'll be damned if i let an ignorant illiterate pea brained empty headed red top lover dunce tell me i'm a risk to society....

grum said:
Might I just ask how much we actually know about this case? Sorry but the OP is quite vague and it sounds a little like a rumour.
.
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Is that paranoia about paranoia ! :thinking:
 
Houston1863 said:
Too true Martyn but sadly not in practice.

If you consider the rules for compensation in respect of wrongful imprisonment, it appears that it is insufficient merely to have the charges dismissed. Take for instance the recent cases of Barry George and Sean Jenkins where it was ruled that neither could claim compensation even though they have been released through lack of evidence. They had to prove they were innocent of the charges to have a legitimate claim for compensation.

What ever happened to innocent until proven guilty?


:(
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I don't know much about Barry George's situation, but Sion Jenkins wasn't wrongfully imprisoned. He was rightfully imprisoned because he was (and to some still is) the prime suspect in the murder of his foster daughter. The steps that the police take in those circumstances is to arrest the suspect and the Court then remands them.

With regards to the OP's post. I agree with the poster who said it seems like it was an overreaction. The problem that other people have in understanding what leads to situations like this, is that they only hear part of the story. Key people have no right to share the information that would help get a better understanding of what's gone on.

Having said that, I can fully understand where people get so fed up of the paranoia that the great unwashed exhibit in their uneducated ways, I just find it incredibly sad.
 
POAH said:
for paying attention to what other people think
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I know its easy to say, and I agree but its not always easy to enact remember. Sadly its easyier sometimes to give into bullying
 
How about linking the tog to this discussion.
 
This just goes to show how much American influence is spreading, especially in this country, where a large majority of people paranoid are overly influenced by the media.

You should never have to prove your innocence, it is guilt that has to be proven.

Having said that, when my daughter was small I had a couple of uncomfortable instances.

One was when I was out with her and she needed her nappy changing, the only place available at the time was the baby changing room in Mothercare. The looks that I received from the other mothers as I was the only father in the room, they were not adoring looks either.

The second incident was the first time my daughter was taken to our local swimming pool. I was filming her and my wife in the kiddies pool, no other kids there, when a jumped up lifeguard told me to put the camera away, that is was illegal to film. I told him to point out the signs to that effect, which of course there were none. I then promptly told him to take a running jump, in not so many words and carried on filming.
Most of us of a particular generation will have photos of us at the beach, in a pool or even the inevitably embarrassing shot naked in the bath.
What struck me as strange about the pool incident was that the whole building is glazed from floor to ceiling and you can stand outside on the pavement and see all that is going on. To me a 'pervert' is more likely to take this easy opportunity than to be blatant about it and film inside.

What really gets me is the amount of people who just roll over and say 'it's just the world we live in'. What has happened to standing up for our rights?

Regards..,

K
 
I can understand why the OP is so angry, we had a thread on this recently where a member had been accused of being a p***, and had been ganged up on by 3 men and told to leave the park he was shooting in.
Its quite rediculous, the world we live in. You can't sneeze anymore without being accused of something heinous. I have never tried taking candid shots of children or anybody for that matter, but i know that if i ever get called a p***, they'd be the ones walking home feeling shameful. I think it really depends on how and where you've been brought up, to how you would react to a situation like this. I was brought up in a rough town in Leicestershire, and if someone tries to mug you here you tell em to 'duck off' and you walk on; its happened to me once; but for people brought up in different areas i'm sure its easier (and sometimes wiser) to just give in; similarly a threat like this is just as intimidating as a mugging; when it comes to photography and passions though... i think it should be a whole other matter, its a shame when something like this happens, because the little name calling scroats have won.

Steve.
 
I'm afraid to say if i was taking pics of my kids outside and someone got a bit shirty with me for whatever reason, maybe their kids were in the shot too, then id say "well move them then", and if they were to dare to accuse me of anything untoward they would get both barrels there and then. i can get very loud when needed and i wouldn't be afraid to call the police myself to say I was being harassed. i realise some people would just leave and maybe even feel guilty with no good reason but to my mind no ******* way would i stand there and be accused, this guy needs to get back out there and take photos again and stick a finger up to his accusers.
 
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c4rv3r said:
I can understand why the OP is so angry, we had a thread on this recently where a member had been accused of being a p***, and had been ganged up on by 3 men and told to leave the park he was shooting in.
Its quite rediculous, the world we live in. You can't sneeze anymore without being accused of something heinous. I have never tried taking candid shots of children or anybody for that matter, but i know that if i ever get called a p***, they'd be the ones walking home feeling shameful. I think it really depends on how and where you've been brought up, to how you would react to a situation like this. I was brought up in a rough town in Leicestershire, and if someone tries to mug you here you tell em to 'duck off' and you walk on; its happened to me once; but for people brought up in different areas i'm sure its easier (and sometimes wiser) to just give in; similarly a threat like this is just as intimidating as a mugging; when it comes to photography and passions though... i think it should be a whole other matter, its a shame when something like this happens, because the little name calling scroats have won.

Steve.
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dunk said:
I'm afraid to say if i was taking pics of my kids outside and someone got a bit shirty with me for whatever reason, maybe their kids were in the shot too, then id say "well move them then", and if they were to dare to accuse me of anything untoward they would get both barrels there and then. i can get very loud when needed and i wouldn't be afraid to call the police myself to say I was being harassed. i realise some people would just leave and maybe even feel guilty with no good reason but to my mind no ******* way would i stand there and be accused, this guy needs to get back out there and take photos again and stick a finger up to his accusers.
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Hear, hear.
 
I won't go to a park with my camera unless I've got my daughter with me, even for macro shots. You have to run into a really paranoid loony to get strife for taking pics of you're own kid!

I've been asked to take photos/video for a swimmer at a club for technique improvement, but I very much doubt the pool will allow that to happen.
 
Here we go again............... guy with a big camera gets accused of being a p*** etc....... mind you his reaction in this case does seem a bit extreme from the information provided in the initial post...................:shrug:

however as seen above people react in different ways to accusations - lets hope he gets back togging soon...........

wonder how many of these "accusors" have a social networking site or 3, that is not secured to just their group of friends.........with pics of their kids and their kids mates all over it............:thinking::thinking:

I know of many on here who have a facebook account and think nothing of posting pics of family events etc on there, however I guess thats the difference between a photographer and someone with a camera........:shrug:

i.e. we know that having a "big" camera does not make you a threat, but others perceive it to be so........
 
There's a good deal of paranoia about 'paedophiles,' wrongful accusations are so damaging, some people over react. Child abuse is wrong & vigilance is a more modern phenomenon, Im sure abuse etc has gone on since time immemorial. Of course dependant on where you live or when you lived, it wasn't even abuse in law. There's a fine line between vigilance and paranoia, taking pictures of kids does not make you into a pervert, and people making an accusation like that make me suspicious they have an odd view.
 
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