Macro extensions and general setup

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Coley.

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I've just looked through the whole 8 pages of macro rig setups :eek: Wowsers !

Im very confused-It looks like some of the people are using ordinary zoom lens, then having a reversed one on the front?

I've got a canon 60mm macro lens but the results have been very hit and miss to say the least. These were taken using a tripod with no flash- only got the one on the camera :cool:

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Why are people using 'full sets' of extension tubes ?-does this mean 1.4x 1.6x 2x ? I've already got a kenko 2x converter but was unsure if i could use it with my macro lens- need some daylight to try the kenko tomorrow now :naughty:

This is my main daft question -

Could.......... Can....................Is it possible, to use my sigma 150-500 or canon 70-300 then somehow stick my macro lens on the front :help: I want to capture photos of the insects heart beating not just get a bit of wing detail :lol:

I may aswell push my luck a bit more while im here. Have all the pictures of insects been cropped ? I was needing to be about 4 inchs away to be able to manually focus on the subject, then the insects were tiny.

Finally a flash. Im guessing any flash that attaches to the hotshoe would be a bonus. Is there a good all rounder flash that would be suitable for macro and inside shots ? I'll start saving milk cartons now :bonk:

Thanks

Simon
 
I'll try and have a go at answering a few for you.

I'm not a Canon user so I can't comment on the magnification of the 60mm But I'm not entirely sure if it is a 1:1 lens happy to stand corrected on that.

As for the extension tubes I shoot with a Sigma 105mm and I pretty much always have a full set of tubes on with a 1:1 lens it takes me up to 2:1

Zoom lens with a macro on front I'm going to take a backwards step and let someone else answer that I've not tried it and couldn't comment

The question to cropping lots of my shots aren't cropped infact the only one recently that has been cropped severely was one I posted in the four bugs thread over on the macro forum and that little thing was about 2mm big if that.

Working distance is a problem you'll find that, I can be sometimes as close to an inch off from the bug or flower I'm trying to focus on.

As to the flash I think your on the right track 430ex ii seems to be popular for Canon but remember there usually bracketed rather than being stuck on the hotshoe but you've seen that by looking through the macro rig thread.

Diffuser being a must as well.


Anyway the standard warning be careful of the Macro bug its addictive :D
 
Thanks for clearing up a few things Neil ;) Just had a quick go with the lens and it seems i need to be 3inchs away minimum before i can manually get it to focus. Im guessing adding extension tubes may alter this ?

First thing i did when i woke up was try putting the kenko 2x on the macro :thinking: unless im having 'one of those days' it just wont fit :thumbsdown: I need to know all your secrets :geek:

Nez said:
Anyway the standard warning be careful of the Macro bug its addictive :D
Click to expand...

I can understand that. I was trying to take a picture of the flower i posted and the fly came over and landed- first thoughts were 'how inconsiderate' followed by :woot: this could be interesting !!
 
Adding tubes will mean you have to get even closer sadly so bare that in mind plus your already starting with a lens that does have a small working distance.

I can't say I have any secrets just the ability to think of inventive new swear words when things don't go right :D

It gets even better when you decide to try get pictures of insects that can sting or bite and your first thoughts are I really shouldn't get this close but I want the picture! :bang:
 
Coley. said:
Why are people using 'full sets' of extension tubes ?-does this mean 1.4x 1.6x 2x ? I've already got a kenko 2x converter but was unsure if i could use it with my macro lens- need some daylight to try the kenko tomorrow now :naughty:
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Sounds like you're confusing extension tubes with tele-extenders.

Tele-extenders/tele converters use optical elements to multiply the focal length, whereas extension tubes are simply rings that put extra space between the sensor and the lens (they have no optics), which removes infinity focus, but allows the lens to focus closer.

Your 2x extender probably doesn't fit because the 60mm macro is EF-s. Most tele-converters won't fit EF-s lenses, and some extension tubes won't either.
The kenko extension tubes are these:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kenko-Telep...D9JY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312108630&sr=8-1

You need to make sure you've got ones that'll fit EF-s though.
 
A cheap and simple way is to reverse the macro, or a 50mm if you have one, and put in on the front of one of the zooms, filter thread to filter thread.

An adaptor will be required.

You can try it out by simply holding the lens reversed on to the zoom.

The reversed lens will need to be wide open.

The other alternative is to get a reversing ring and reverse the macro straight onto the camera body. Use aperature priority and stop the lens down manually after focusing.

One can play games like this till-the-cows-come-home.

D in W
 
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with macro, magnification is altered by changing the focus of the lens - maximum magnification of your lens is 1:1 and is achieved at minimum focus distance. so shoot manual focus and set the lens to minimum focus in the distance scale - frame your subject which will need to be 3.5" from the end of the lens, then rock the camera to focus. Really you need flash so you can be at F11-F16 to maximize DOF.
 
Your 60mm lens will mean have you to be pretty close to your subject. As Nez said he can be as close as 1" to his subject. For bugs, this can prove tricky.

As with all photography, exposure and focus are the main issues. With a macro lens, your depth of field is going to be very limited, The only way to increase the the DOF is to stop down. This of course means you will have to slow the shutter speed down possibly to the point where you're going to have problems with movement either of the subject or you.

One way to compensate for this is to up the ISO, but the higher you go the more noise you may encounter in the image.

Another way to compensate is to use flash. At these close distances built in or hot shoe plashes don't work very well as they can't always adequately illiminate the subject. For this reason serious macro photographers will invest in either a ring flash or twinlight flash.

for a beginner or those on a tight budget a ringflash would be the best bet. Marumi do a basic one which works pretty well for just over a £100.

Hope this helps and that I haven't been teaching my grandmother to suck eggs.

Oh yes one last point. If you are a beginner to the macro game you will often read how "macro photography = tripod".

This is true for static subjects. However if you are a bug hunter then my advice would be to forget the tripod. Possibly get a monopod but when you are scampering through undergrowth and bracken etc in pursuit of a High Brown Fritillary then mono/tripods become suicidal encumbrances. This is where you need to really think about your exposure and/or invest in one of the ring/twinlight flashes I mentioned.

Don't buy a Gitzo tripod, buy a twinlight instead.
 
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Hello, just a quick thank-you to say I'm still reading this. I'll have a thorough read when I get home. My main main concern though, is I can't understand how you guys are getting the lens to focus only being an inch away- I really need to be approx 3 inchs before it'll manually focus.........
 
Don't be concerned all that is , is the focus distance of the lens setup as you apply more magnification the closer you'll have to be.

from my limited knowledge of a Canon 60mm I'd say 3 inch focus distance is about right.

And has been said you are probably better of setting your focus first ie magnification and then just using the sway back and forth technique most macro shooters use rather than trying to focus with the lens ring.

Anyway have a look in the macro forum I'm sure if there are images in there you like and want to know a bit more of how its done the guys and gals in there will be more than happy to help.
 
Coley. said:
Hello, just a quick thank-you to say I'm still reading this. I'll have a thorough read when I get home. My main main concern though, is I can't understand how you guys are getting the lens to focus only being an inch away- I really need to be approx 3 inchs before it'll manually focus.........
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IF you add extension tubes you will reduce the minimum focus distance, on your lens 60mm of extension will give you approx 2:1
 
Yes, don't worry about how far away you have to be to focus, just get the focus right. When photographing bugs 3" is a whole lot better that 1" !!

to get a bigger working distance you will need a longer focal length lens, eg the 90mm Tamron, either of the Cannon 100mm macro lenses the 105mm or 150mm Sigmas or the 180mm Canon (all of these are dedicated macro lenses capable of giving 1:1 reproduction).

This does not mean that these lenses can only be used for macro. They can of course be used for any photography although you may find that some of them autofocus a little more slowly than non-macro lenses.
 
Wowsers, theres alot to take in :thinking::lol:

Right, as ive only recently acquired the lens i dont want to be changing it already. Ive got the standard 70-300 kit lens and ive got the raved about 55-250 on the way- i was thinking of getting rid of the non is kit one.

Would this be suitable for the reverse technique ? - so keep this on the camera, then have the thread adapter then have the macro on the front reversed ? This would appeal to me, as i could keep the 70-300 as a dedicated macro setup.

Or, would i be better off trying to find some extension rings so i can get closer (So i wouldnt be able to zoom any closer, just get the lens closer and focus ?)

The lens ive got are-

18-55 kit lens
70-300 kit lens
60mm macro
55-250
nifty fifty
kenko 2x
Sigma 150-500

Is there a combination there i could use, without having to spend large amounts ?
What would your personal opinion be (besides stop buying lenses :bonk:)
I thought i was doing the right thing by replacing the 2 kits lens that came with the camera.

If i were to get a ring flash, would it only be usefull for macro work then ? As much as im sure i'll enjoy it, it wont be something im concentrating on- so a flash that could be adapted to do either would be great ;)

Apologys for the fuddled up questions, thanks for your help so far

Simon
 
Dave in Wales said:
A cheap and simple way is to reverse the macro, or a 50mm if you have one, and put in on the front of one of the zooms, filter thread to filter thread.

An adaptor will be required.

You can try it out by simply holding the lens reversed on to the zoom.

The reversed lens will need to be wide open.

The other alternative is to get a reversing ring and reverse the macro straight onto the camera body. Use aperature priority and stop the lens down manually after focusing.

One can play games like this till-the-cows-come-home.

D in W
Click to expand...

would doing this with just the macro increase the zoom ? Just had a quick browse at dogfish's album- thats the kind of detail i'd like top capture. This certainly makes you think about creepy crawlys differently:love:
 
I personally wouldn't bother with a ring flash and just go for a standard one
and bracket it.

You could go with the 60mm and then reverse the 50mm onto it. Should get you some more magnification

Or has been recommended with the zoom and then reverse one of the primes.
 
So I'll use the 55-250 and reverse the macro ? I'm getting the feeling theres not a lot of love for the 60mm macro lens - almost like its not needed. I'd sooner have it as a dedicated macro lens then risk bashing apart others when changing them. It's probably not something you guys would recommend but would some extension rings and some kind of flash give me improved results ? I like the idea of the 60mm macro being left all setup (rings attached) in my bag. I'm really struggling to get my head round this.
I tried using one of my zoom lenses and having the nifty reversed- all I saw was blur

Thanks
Simon
 
There's nothing wrong with that 60mm you have its just not the norm for bugs.
the minimal focus distance is quite short which is going to be a huge problem if you attach tubes.

getting an off camera flash would help lots.

I'd say give what you have a whirl acquire yourself some tubes either the AF kind or the Manual ones and a flash,off camera cord and just try it I suspect you'll end up craving for a another lens sooner or later and if you buy anything now they can all be used in the step up process.
 
I use the Canon 60mm macro and while not the ideal for bugs, I think I get OK results (I added some bugs here recently, http://www.flickr.com/photos/60937710@N07/) . I do struggle to get close enough for 1:1 without scaring the bugs off and usually rely on cropping quite heavily so as Neil said adding tubes would be a no for me.

If I were you, I would practise with the 60m on it's own first and see what you can do, macro is certainly not as easy as it looks and the better pictures on the macro forum are the result of lots of practise. Once you get proficient then maybe think about alternatives to increase magnification / working distance.
 
irelanst said:
I use the Canon 60mm macro and while not the ideal for bugs, I think I get OK results (I added some bugs here recently, http://www.flickr.com/photos/60937710@N07/) .
If I were you, I would practise with the 60m on it's own first and see what you can do, macro is certainly not as easy as it looks and the better pictures on the macro forum are the result of lots of practise. Once you get proficient then maybe think about alternatives to increase magnification / working distance.
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You win the understatement of the year award !!!! Your pictures are incredible !

Steve/Neil, thanks for sharing your thoughts. You've put my mind at ease. I thought just get a simple macro lens and have some fun, then i got completely overwhelmed thinking i had bought a duff lens and needed to fork out £100s and £100's more just to get good results.

Im gonna get a decent flash and see how that helps- atleast it'll double up for other types of shooting. I might put a request on the macro section- something like 'show me you canon 60mm photos, please' I'd be really interested to see what others have achieved just with this one lens :bonk:

I was eating my luch today in the work van and noticed a squashed spider with some of its legs missing on the floor. I put it in a little pot and have brought it home with me - is this type of behavior normal :suspect::lol:

Thanks all,

Simon
 
Steve/Neil, thanks for sharing your thoughts. You've put my mind at ease. I thought just get a simple macro lens and have some fun, then i got completely overwhelmed thinking i had bought a duff lens and needed to fork out £100s and £100's more just to get good results.
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Np I was a bit worried you had been scared off.

I was eating my luch today in the work van and noticed a squashed spider with some of its legs missing on the floor. I put it in a little pot and have brought it home with me - is this type of behavior normal
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No comment ;):D
 
Full set of tubes and a canon 100mm macro lens, giving around 2:1


Bee Extreme Closeup by Sam_catch, on Flickr

Off camera flash (using an extension chord) and a big diffuser (well, big for macro... Roughly A4 sized).
F11.0 1/250th ISO 100 on a crop camera (50d)

Not cropped.

Getting enough light is always the challenge, as that lets you run a smaller aperture (higher number) so more DOF.

Sam
 
I would say your best bet is to buy a set of Kenko DG AF tubes for your Canon camera.

I have a set and for macro and close up they are excellent and also allow you to retain full control over auto exposure and focussing.

If your zoom lens is the 70-300mm IS USM lens then they also work very well with that lens as well allowing you to get excellent shots of bees, wasps, butterflies etc without getting too close.

But the thing to remember about close up and macro shots is that the DOF is VERY small so an aperture about f11 or f16 is necessary, so either sunlight is necessary or a high ISO.

If you look here:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=313888

you will see some results with the Kenko extension tubes on the 70-300mm IS USM lens.

.
 
Sorry to butt in, but i'm trying to make sense of the mass of information on this forum regarding macro shooting and have a few questions of my own.

With extenders, am I correct in thinking that an extension tube will extend the focal length of the lens by the length of the tube e.g. a 100mm lens if used with a 100mm extension tube will behave as a 200mmm lens?

If the above is true does this mean that you can be twice as far from the subject to achieve the same shot that you would get when using the lens only?

Would you get the same result if using a 2x teleconverter?

Do the extension tubes have the same effect on other lens types, e.g. would a 24 - 70 act as a 124 - 170 if used with a 100mm tube.

I don't know whether a 100mm tube actually exists, it was just an easy number to work with.

That's probably enough to be going on with.

Thanks
 
zlinuk said:
Sorry to butt in, but i'm trying to make sense of the mass of information on this forum regarding macro shooting and have a few questions of my own.

With extenders, am I correct in thinking that an extension tube will extend the focal length of the lens by the length of the tube e.g. a 100mm lens if used with a 100mm extension tube will behave as a 200mmm lens?
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No it doesnt - extension tubes do NOT alter the focal length of any lens they simply move the lens further away from the sensor which means you have to move CLOSER to the subject which increases the size of the subject on the sensor.

Would you get the same result if using a 2x teleconverter?
Click to expand...

the simple answer is NO.

The 2 things are TOTALLY different.

Teleconvertors use seperate optics to give the effect of increasing the focal length of lenses they are coupled with.

So a 2x teleconvertor WILL double the effective length of lenses they are used with.

However you get nothing for nothing - extension tubes reduce the amount of light reaching the sensor so require an increase in exposure.

And teleconvertors usually reduce the maximum stop you can use on any lens - so a 100-400mm f4.0 lens may become a 200-800mm lens but with a maximum aperture of f8.0 for example.

And teleconvertors often reduce the sharpness of the lens they are used with.

Hope this helps a little.
 
Thanks Peter, the teleconverter part I now understand, but i'm still not quite understanding the extension tube thing.

Could you not just move closer to the subject without the tube to achieve the same result?

I know i'm missing something fundamental here.
 
Seems like I should get extension tubes and use my existing zoom lens- I've decided getting my 60mm macro lens was a duff/unnecessary purchase- but my opinion of it does seem to be changing on a daily basis
 
Coley. said:
Seems like I should get extension tubes and use my existing zoom lens- I've decided getting my 60mm macro lens was a duff/unnecessary purchase- but my opinion of it does seem to be changing on a daily basis
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you'll not go far wrong buying a 90mm or 105mm macro lens, saves all the speculation on what will do what and how much etc etc :bang:

I have a Sigma 105mm f2.8 Macro lens- cost me £260 second hand and I love it-

Les :thumbs:
 
Coley. said:
Seems like I should get extension tubes and use my existing zoom lens- I've decided getting my 60mm macro lens was a duff/unnecessary purchase- but my opinion of it does seem to be changing on a daily basis
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You'll always get better results with a dedicated macro lens - you will get the same magnification with the 60mm as you do a 90mm,100mm,150mm or 180mm macro lens. Below is MWD for each lens - adding tubes will increase magnification and REDUCE working distance. Tubes work best with prime lenses and you wont get any where near 1:1 with a longer zoom

Canon EF-S 60mm f/2.8 Macro USM Lens 3.5" (90mm)
Tamron SP 90mm f/2.8 Di Macro Lens 3.9" (99mm)
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro Lens 6.0" (150mm)
Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 L IS USM Macro Lens 5.9" (146mm)
Sigma 105mm f/2.8 EX DG Macro Lens 4.8" (122mm)
Sigma 150mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM Macro Lens 7.6" (194mm)
Canon EF 180mm f/3.5 L USM Macro Lens 9.5" (240mm)


Lez325 said:
you'll not go far wrong buying a 90mm or 105mm macro lens, saves all the speculation on what will do what and how much etc etc :bang:

I have a Sigma 105mm f2.8 Macro lens- cost me £260 second hand and I love it-

Les :thumbs:
Click to expand...

Not really worth changing for a tamron - only going to get another 9mm of working distance & a close call for the siggy 105mm gaining only 32mm, The canon also has internal focusing - IQ's going to be very similar
 
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Sorry about my grumpy previous post :dummy:

Since getting into this whole photography lark i think its the one purchase i regret. I'll get some extension tubes and a flash- if i still feel the same way about it after that, i'll hollow out the guts of it and turn it into a lovely beaker :lol:

The strange thing about this thread is it keeps making me change my mind- i havent had that with others before

Simon
 
Coley. said:
Sorry about my grumpy previous post :dummy:

Since getting into this whole photography lark i think its the one purchase i regret. I'll get some extension tubes and a flash- if i still feel the same way about it after that, i'll hollow out the guts of it and turn it into a lovely beaker :lol:

The strange thing about this thread is it keeps making me change my mind- i havent had that with others before

Simon
Click to expand...

Get a flash first as it will make the most difference to your macro shots - and tubes without flash is very difficult due to the very small effective aperture.

if your ever over this side of the border your quite welcome to try tubes / flash
 
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Light is always the challenge, moreso in macro.. A good flash and a diffuser for it (either homemade or puchased) is a huge help!

Sam
 
In fact you don't need to spend a fortune to get good close-up and macro shots.

These pics were taken with the 18-55mm kit lens on a Canon 350D fitted with close up lenses prchased on ebay for about £15.00 (for a set of +1 to +10 dioptres):

Taken with a 350D with +4 Dioptre close up lens on the 18-55mm lens.
11042.jpg


Taken with a 350D with +10 Dioptre close up lens on the 18-55mm lens.
11191.jpg

​

And sometimes you don't even need a close up lens to get a good pic:

Taken on my 350D using the 18-55mm kit lens.
IMG_00193.jpg

​

And anyone can get pics like these (and better) with the most basic of equipment.

It's just a matter of finding the limits of your equipment and using it (and your eyes) rather than just running out to buy specialised lenses,because it often takes a higher level of skill and knowledge to use macro lenses than to start simply and work up to them.

.
 
I'm looking at buying some kit to enable me to get a bit closer with my macro lens and also to be able to get a bit more zoom with a 70-200mm lens. I have a bit more of an idea now i've read various threads but any further advice would be appreciated.

Currently have:

- 5D MkII
- Canon 100mm f/2.8 USM macro lens
- Canon 17-40mm f/4 USM IS
- Looking to buy 70-200mm f/2.8 IS USM (II)

Based on what I've managed to find online it looks like an extension tube would be best for the macro then a 1.4x tele converter forthe 70-200mm lens.

I understand there is no difference in quality between Canon or cheaper brand extension tubes so I was planning on getting a Kenco 12mm, 20mm, 36mm set. For the TC I'm looking at the Canon EF 1.4x III.

Also, I've noticed some websites say "Australian stock". Are there any risks with going with the cheaper online retailers (other than shipping damage etc) who may ship from overseas (e.g. Hong Kong)?
 
foggyl0 said:
I'm looking at buying some kit to enable me to get a bit closer with my macro lens and also to be able to get a bit more zoom with a 70-200mm lens. I have a bit more of an idea now i've read various threads but any further advice would be appreciated.

Currently have:

- 5D MkII
- Canon 100mm f/2.8 USM macro lens
- Canon 17-40mm f/4 USM IS
- Looking to buy 70-200mm f/2.8 IS USM (II)

Based on what I've managed to find online it looks like an extension tube would be best for the macro then a 1.4x tele converter forthe 70-200mm lens.

I understand there is no difference in quality between Canon or cheaper brand extension tubes so I was planning on getting a Kenco 12mm, 20mm, 36mm set. For the TC I'm looking at the Canon EF 1.4x III.

Also, I've noticed some websites say "Australian stock". Are there any risks with going with the cheaper online retailers (other than shipping damage etc) who may ship from overseas (e.g. Hong Kong)?
Click to expand...

A tele converter lens will do nothing to enhance the macro abilities of your 70-200mm lens.

You can get a set of Polaroid extension tubes from Amazon for £60.00 which have good reviews and at that price are quite a bargain:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Polaroid-Fo...BAT2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330240905&sr=8-1

.
 
foggyl0 said:
I'm looking at buying some kit to enable me to get a bit closer with my macro lens and also to be able to get a bit more zoom with a 70-200mm lens. I have a bit more of an idea now i've read various threads but any further advice would be appreciated.

Currently have:

- 5D MkII
- Canon 100mm f/2.8 USM macro lens
- Canon 17-40mm f/4 USM IS
- Looking to buy 70-200mm f/2.8 IS USM (II)

Based on what I've managed to find online it looks like an extension tube would be best for the macro then a 1.4x tele converter forthe 70-200mm lens.

I understand there is no difference in quality between Canon or cheaper brand extension tubes so I was planning on getting a Kenco 12mm, 20mm, 36mm set. For the TC I'm looking at the Canon EF 1.4x III.

Also, I've noticed some websites say "Australian stock". Are there any risks with going with the cheaper online retailers (other than shipping damage etc) who may ship from overseas (e.g. Hong Kong)?
Click to expand...

Using a 1.4x converter with your macro lens will give you 1.4:1 without affecting working distance and will still retain infinity focus .
 
Thanks for the comments.

Peter - I wasn't planning on using the 70-200mm for macro but was thinking about the teleconverter to get some extra zoom capability and could to useful with the extension tubes on the macro lens.
 
foggyl0 said:
Thanks for the comments.

Peter - I wasn't planning on using the 70-200mm for macro but was thinking about the teleconverter to get some extra zoom capability and could to useful with the extension tubes on the macro lens.
Click to expand...

Well the 100mm macro is a really superb lens for macro shots but you still have to get fairly close to insects etc which is not always easy.

And adding extension tubes will make your working distance even less which is why I actually part exchanged my 100mm macro for the 70-300mm IS USM zoom.

And a good flash is almost a necessity as well.

I now use a Jessops 320AF flashgun (now discontinued) and it is very good coupled to my setup.

But learning to take good macro shots is a steep learning curve but well worth it in the end.

Incidentally another way to get extreme magnification is with "lens coupling".

see here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20926615@N05/sets/72157628714278311/

and here are quite a few pics taken with the 100mm macro (with and without tubes):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20926615@N05/sets/72157623715955928/

and flower sets taken with various lenses (with and without tubes):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/20926615@N05/sets/72157623911722582/

hope these help.

Incidentally if you were buying the 70-200mm 2.8 IS lens for the wider aperture then you would reduce the aperture by fitting the 1.4x extender.

In that case you could be better off with the 70-300mm L IS USM lens and a saving in money terms.

.

.
 
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