Mac or windows ??

[neil_g]

Indeed, that's the stance I normally take. Go try OSX and windows 7 and see which floats your boat. But don't compare a 1200 quid MacBook to a 400 quid dell, that's just stupid.

But going back to my original post in this thread, both platforms have pros and cons mostly personal feel points. All hardware will fail (we've had MacBook pros that have had graphics card issues that apple refused to acknowledge and we've currently got issues with new MacBook pros where they won't connect reliably to a LAN without forcing the connection speed and duplex) as generally they're all made in the same factories. Apple use Foxconn much like many other manufacturers so it doesn't make them any more reliable..

 

[mr_pants]

i'll sort this one out for you OP.

Mac.

Question answered. Close thread. Photoshop has all these amazing features on mac you just wont see on windows, making me a better photographer than all the windows users.


http://images.dpchallenge.com/image...Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_625496.jpg

Shouldn't you really credit the creator, or link back to the original image?

 

[Marac]

Shouldn't you really credit the creator, or link back to the original image?

+1

'Art roflmao' (Ken) is a very talented photographer and pretty good in photoshop too.. credit is due definitely, so please let everyone know where you got the image from.

 

[lensflair]

Well they both do the job but after using both for many years its Mac for me. Ive heard all the arguments a million times but in the real world Macs work well nearly always and PCs make me chuck a fit. I've tried several times to get along with a PC and while I saved some money I nearly lost my sanity.

Some people enjoy the challenge of owning a PC, its just personally I use a computer because I have to and want the experience as painless as possible.

 

[joescrivens]

Shouldn't you really credit the creator, or link back to the original image?

+1

'Art roflmao' (Ken) is a very talented photographer and pretty good in photoshop too.. credit is due definitely, so please let everyone know where you got the image from.

I removed the image from the post so please do the same from my quote.

The joke has run its course now

 

[swanseamale47]

Can I ask what different 'features' you can get on Photoshop for Mac over PC?

None, the program is the same on both.

 

[mr_pants]

I removed the image from the post so please do the same from my quote.

The joke has run its course now

You seem to be trying to make it sound as though it's our fault that you used someone's image without asking. One marked "Copyrighted Image Reuse Prohibited"

 

[N88]

Just interested to see what's the favourite - mac or normal pc/laptop - My sister has just been raving about the photoshop capabilities of the Mac - but having never owned one - have no idea which is best ?

Mac for me since I first made the switch a couple of years ago. The photoshop software will be the same on both though so I'm not really sure what she's on about!

 

[cambsno]

You see many people 'convert' to Macs (like my dad) but few the other way. I prefer Macs but I guess its a bit of a BMW v Audi debate!

 

[AllFallD0wn]

Statistically speaking, neither Operating System has the advantage over the other. They both do the same job, which is make using computers much easier for both programmer and users. It's really what you prefer. Personally I use Windows and Linux, because I like flexibility (there are far many more programs for Windows than there are for Mac OSX), and I'm a programmer (a lot of the tools for C++/C# programming are Windows only)

Also, I really don't see why people say running windows is a "challenge". I've used many operating systems throughout the years, and I can safely say that both mac and windows are very good, but both have their problems. Maybe back in the days of Windows 3.1 it was slightly harder to use, but then again the early Mac System OS's were hard to use back then. Windows does not crash more than a mac does, at least in my experience, and if someone wants a slight challenge, they should try running linux 1.0

Talking specs, it all depends on the computer. Macs do come in lower specs (although you wouldn't think it, looking at the prices), but once again, they can be equal. Personally, I prefer a PC again, because I love to be able to upgrade my machine when I need to. This is one thing which is extremely hard with macs, because of the way they are designed.

Really, though, in a nutshell:

Neither has any advantage over the other for running programs. They both do the same jobs, and can have the same hardware.

Indeed, that's the stance I normally take. Go try OSX and windows 7 and see which floats your boat. But don't compare a 1200 quid MacBook to a 400 quid dell, that's just stupid.

Not as stupid as you might have thought. I recently went macbook hunting, I think I took the cheapest (or most expensive) macbook pro (£1600?), and then tallied up the same specs on a laptop-building website, who would build the laptop to the specs you gave, and ship it to your door, and the laptop (with Windows 7 x64) came out at £800, whereas the macbook was double that at £1600. So, just a word of caution, expect to pay ~ double for a mac, for what is the exact same hardware.

 

[iamchrisphoto]

Ok, I'm proficient in Windows, Linux and OSX. I have been tinkering with and using computers since I was 9 years old (back in the Commodore days)

As others have said, they all generally do the same thing. They all run photoshop etc equally well. But the difference is in the details.

I'm the exact sort of person who should be a build it yourself windows "power user". But I can just get so much more done on a mac.

It's that fact that in 6 years that I have been a mac user, I haven't had a single virus, hard disk failure, corrupt registry, bsod or any issue whatsoever. I don't have to worry about security updates, registry cleaning, defragging, driver incompatibilities, virus software or service packs.

My iMac lets me just get on with work, day in day out. OSX looks after itself, leaving me more time to do the things I need to do on it, like photo editing, web design etc.

And for me, that's worth the apple premium. Windows isn't bad, it's just needs that extra input from the user to keep in good shape, and I don't have the time or patience for that.

 

[AllFallD0wn]

Ok, I'm proficient in Windows, Linux and OSX. I have been tinkering with and using computers since I was 9 years old (back in the Commodore days)

As others have said, they all generally do the same thing. They all run photoshop etc equally well. But the difference is in the details.

I'm the exact sort of person who should be a build it yourself windows "power user". But I can just get so much more done on a mac.

It's that fact that in 6 years that I have been a mac user, I haven't had a single virus, hard disk failure, corrupt registry, bsod or any issue whatsoever. I don't have to worry about security updates, registry cleaning, defragging, driver incompatibilities, virus software or service packs.

My iMac lets me just get on with work, day in day out. OSX looks after itself, leaving me more time to do the things I need to do on it, like photo editing, web design etc.

And for me, that's worth the apple premium. Windows isn't bad, it's just needs that extra input from the user to keep in good shape, and I don't have the time or patience for that.

Sinclair > Commodore

I would agree with some of your points, but I would also say that you can build your own computer which runs OSX. I think if I wanted to use OSX more often, then this is the route I would probably take.

You'd have to be more selective about parts, but it is possible, and probably a lot cheaper, too! I'd also like to say that I've not suffered any viruses or HDD failures on any system I've used (Windows, OSX, Linux, etc). I've experienced BSOD, and Mac freezes, but I don't recall any from Linux, which is slightly worrying, as BSOD and macs freezing are usually to protect hardware from being damaged (if something damaging could happen, they put everything into lock to prevent hardware damage).. Drives using OSX do still technically need defragging, they just don't tell you about it, and in this day and age, defragging is extremely un-economical for the time you put in, compared to the speed you get out of it.

 

[iamchrisphoto]

Sinclair > Commodore

I would agree with some of your points, but I would also say that you can build your own computer which runs OSX. I think if I wanted to use OSX more often, then this is the route I would probably take.

You'd have to be more selective about parts, but it is possible, and probably a lot cheaper, too! I'd also like to say that I've not suffered any viruses or HDD failures on any system I've used (Windows, OSX, Linux, etc). I've experienced BSOD, and Mac freezes, but I don't recall any from Linux, which is slightly worrying, as BSOD and macs freezing are usually to protect hardware from being damaged (if something damaging could happen, they put everything into lock to prevent hardware damage).. Drives using OSX do still technically need defragging, they just don't tell you about it, and in this day and age, defragging is extremely un-economical for the time you put in, compared to the speed you get out of it.

I'll agree with some of your points too.

My windows experience personally hasn't been too bad. Most of my major problems have been hardware related, but its all of the requests of family and friends who have issues with their computers that don't know what they are doing, or don't know how or why to maintain a computers performance. All it takes is a dodgy download or deleting a system file and it's game over.

As for making a Hackintosh, just no. I mean you can, but to me that defeats the point.

I mean, I could build a PC with the spec I want, for maybe the same or less money. I certainly know how to do it. But why should I need to? And what about people who don't know the first thing about building computers or upgrading etc?

I just need a fast machine, that I can buy, plug in, set up quickly and get to work, and work for me everyday for several years. Which is what each of my macs have done for me consistently. And it's worth every penny.

 

[AllFallD0wn]

I'll agree with some of your points too.

My windows experience personally hasn't been too bad. Most of my major problems have been hardware related, but its all of the requests of family and friends who have issues with their computers that don't know what they are doing, or don't know how or why to maintain a computers performance. All it takes is a dodgy download or deleting a system file and it's game over.

As for making a Hackintosh, just no. I mean you can, but to me that defeats the point.

I mean, I could build a PC with the spec I want, for maybe the same or less money. I certainly know how to do it. But why should I need to? And what about people who don't know the first thing about building computers or upgrading etc?

I just need a fast machine, that I can buy, plug in, set up quickly and get to work, and work for me everyday for several years. Which is what each of my macs have done for me consistently. And it's worth every penny.

Fair play. It really comes down to what you want out of the machine. If you just want a plug in and play, macs are great. If you like to play around with things (I certainly do), then building your own or buying a tower is much better. I've never actually tried to break an OSX running machine before. Might be something to try in the future, but I know that windows have got a lot better at not letting you delete extremely important system files. Nowhere near as good as linux, obviously.

Also, as macs are becoming more popular, viruses for them are on the rise, just what happened with the Windows OS family over the past 15 years, so Mac owners, still keep an eye out for dodgy downloads, and remember the security packages.

 

[joescrivens]

You seem to be trying to make it sound as though it's our fault that you used someone's image without asking. One marked "Copyrighted Image Reuse Prohibited"

Huh?

 

[neil_g]

see now this is why these threads annoy me, silly inaccurate points..

I haven't had a single virus

me neither on windows, i run a very lightweight AV program and dont click on stupid links in emails etc..

hard disk failure

seeing as macs use the same brands of hard drive as everyone else i fail to see your point

corrupt registry

well you wont, macs dont have a registry persay but registry corruptions are VERY rare in my experience. however shall we talk about all the rubbish mac apps leave behind when "uninstalling"? and permissions data corruptions?

I don't have to worry about security updates

sorry thats rubbish, apple issue security updates pretty regularly

registry cleaning, defragging, driver incompatibilities, virus software or service packs.

registry cleaning - unecessary and causes more issues than fixes sometimes
defragging - again unecessary when running NTFS (windows version of HFS+)
driver incompatibilities - generally this is only when new versions are released and hardware vendors havent caught up. apple are just as bad at this, we were without drivers for our canon large format printers for weeks when SN was released.
virus software - see first point, however with a few more bits of malware for mac kicking about it wont be long. we're already testing sophos for mac. plus mac can harbour and help spread windows malware.
service packs - so osx never has an increase of version number?

i guess my point is, one camp believes their way is right and the other believes the other way is right. youll never get a compremised opinion.

me, i have no opinion that one is better than the other. to suggest otherwise is misleading. and thats from someone that works with both platforms on a day to day basis, we see just as many support requests from macs as windows users.

/thread

 

[freddisu]

LOL !!! oops sorry !!!
can anyone do me a pic of a can of worms and I will judge the best then !! ??

Bit late , but here you are,,,

 

[Martyn...]

You are correct Neil ... both do the same job.

I am currently using a mac, have been for three years ... I have not had a single problem with it, really like it, prefer it to my previous Windows machines.

Prior to the mac I had several Evesham Micros PCs ... wonderful machines a few minor OS issues, no major issues, and over 12 years no viruses ... shame they went bust.

I have the Mac Pro tower ... really well thought out design, clip the side off and play spot the power cable, slide in hard drive sledges, slide in memory boards ... neat.

The tower is the only bit of mac I use, I have Eizo monitors, a matias keyboard and a logitech mouse ... the apple offerings in that department are not to my liking.

At the end of the day they all just work on 0's and 1's

Its all a bit like Nikon v Canon, BMW v Audi at the end of the day it is all down to personal preference, neither can be judged as better than the other, it is all down to which you prefer using.

 

[neil_g]

I have the Mac Pro tower ... really well thought out design, clip the side off and play spot the power cable, slide in hard drive sledges, slide in memory boards ... neat.

no doubt, fully loaded they are a nice bit of kit. shame the rumours are they may be discontinued but i guess thats the niche market they supply where most can do with a good i7 spec.

im not denying apple have some nice stuff that works well, im an apple user too for the record. but so do the higher end of dells (etc) range. and to suggest that either platform are completely invunerable to issues is utter tosh, and that annoys me (you'd never guess, right )

 

[Martyn...]

and that annoys me (you'd never guess, right )

I had my suspicions ... glad you clarified your position

As I said if Evesham were still trading I would still be using one of their machines running Windows.

 

[neil_g]

I had my suspicions ... glad you clarified your position

As I said if Evesham were still trading I would still be using one of their machines running Windows.

i used to have an evesham many mood ago, an old athlon if i remember rightly

 

[Martyn...]

i used to have an evesham many mood ago, an old athlon if i remember rightly

I had several of those, great company, superb after sales service, and only a few miles from where I lived at the time, real shame they ceased trading.

 

[neil_g]

I had several of those, great company, superb after sales service, and only a few miles from where I lived at the time, real shame they ceased trading.

yeah from what i remember they were really well built.

replaced it with a "time" machine, that arrived with no OS

 

[joescrivens]

i guess my point is, one camp believes their way is right and the other believes the other way is right. youll never get a compremised opinion.

me, i have no opinion that one is better than the other. to suggest otherwise is misleading. and thats from someone that works with both platforms on a day to day basis, we see just as many support requests from macs as windows users.

I think the experience you refer to a lot though neil is that of being at work and I think there may be a very good reason why apple is growing more and more in the home market whilst other makes are retreating.

It's less to do with osx vs windows or apple hardware vs dell, but actually a hybrid. When you buy a dell or HP with windows installed you are doing so from two different providers and then typically you get internet security from a third. The softwrae can then be from anywhere.

When you buy an iMac, the hardware and operating system are from the same company as is the majority of software that most home users use. An average user that looks at pics, browses the net, plays music etc generally use apple software. Not to say windows users don't use microsoft software too, but it's more tightly integrated on the apple model.

When you then look at the apple ecosystem and you purchase apple care with your product, it's all in one place. If something goes wrong with your computer you ring one number every time, it doesn't matter if it's the screen, the keyboard, the OS, iphoto etc etc. Everything goes through one place and is covered at the same time. That kind of experience for the home user is invaluable and is a massive appeal and does set the model above the microsoft/dell etc offering.

 

[neil_g]

true joe, work environment is probably a little more hardcore than your average home user so the macs probably get pushed to their limits a little more so may not be 100% comparible.

i do get your point about all being from the same vendor and it being convinient and i understand why that may appeal to non-technical users. ive got no gripe with that.

its the "windows is rubbish, it crashes every 5 mins, macs never crash" balls that annoys.

see i can agree with mac lovers about good points

 

[joescrivens]

true joe, work environment is probably a little more hardcore than your average home user so the macs probably get pushed to their limits a little more so may not be 100% comparible.

i do get your point about all being from the same vendor and it being convinient and i understand why that may appeal to non-technical users. ive got no gripe with that.

its the "windows is rubbish, it crashes every 5 mins, macs never crash" balls that annoys.

see i can agree with mac lovers about good points

I think what apple have done over the years is observe very closely the way the "average" user uses their machine and then they have built their product to aim at that user. This can mean that when you fit within the realm of that user the experience of using the computer feels nicer than a counterpart, but if you are either side of it or you try and do things differently it's when you don't feel that same comfort and thats where you get the people who complain about locked down systems and freedom of choice etc.

But it's also why you get the things about the apple machine not crashing etc . it's typically because they are using everything the way it was intended. My wife is a luddite and she asks me less questions when she is doing things on our mac then she used to on windows.

People get the impression that it works better because for the most part it is doing the things they want it to more simply, due to a whole range of assumptions that apple make in the design of their OS.

I'll give you one very simple example to illustrate my point. On my desktop if I want to change the name of a file that also has a file extension, when I go to rename it the OS automatically highlights just the filename and not the extension. So I can basically use a keyboard shortcut (the return key) and then just type my new filename without even pressing delete or backspace. The OS is assuming that's what I want to do because for the majority of users, it is.

On windows this doesn't happen (at least on XP) - i can't remember if it is the whole filename and extension that gets highlighted or nothing, or if the cursor just lands at the end of the extension if you press F2. But on the mac if I did want to change the whole thing, then it's not as simple, it's designed for the majority of users

 

[neil_g]

On windows this doesn't happen (at least on XP) - i can't remember if it is the whole filename and extension that gets highlighted or nothing, or if the cursor just lands at the end of the extension if you press F2. But on the mac if I did want to change the whole thing, then it's not as simple, it's designed for the majority of users

depends if youve got extentions showing (off by default). i cant remember if 7 sorted that but i dont want to turn extentions on to check

 

[joescrivens]

depends if youve got extentions showing (off by default). i cant remember if 7 sorted that but i dont want to turn extentions on to check

and what happens when the extensions are off and you choose to rename? does it highlight the whole text to automatically start typing or does it give a cursor at the end?

 

[ohara]

It's all down to personal preference. I also don't think OSX has anywhere near the popularity in the UK as it does for example in the US.

I have used Macs, a friend of mine does video production a lot and I was trying to edit some footage on his Macbook Pro and found the lack of right click extremely annoying and counter productive. I run Windows 7 at home and my mouse has 13 clickable buttons (although I only use 3 - left click, right click and scroll wheel click) most of the time.

I don't want to take sides but I absolutely despise OSX and anything in general which runs it and its variants. Don't get me wrong, the hardware is great. I would love to have a Macbook Pro as my laptop (obviously I'd run Windows) as they can be a great spec, it's just a shame that you have to spend well over £1000 for a decent one. They look very good too. Or I could just buy a Dell/Alienware laptop of the same spec for less money and already have Windows...

I think Mac's are designed for simple people and those who wish to show off their wealth. Hence why I have never seen one in a business environment. At secondary school we had something like 300 computers in the entire site, only 1 of them was a Mac and even that one wasn't connected to the network most of the time. I did IT at college for 3 years and never saw a single Apple computer there.

Before you all jump in and say I'm an Apple hater then don't bother - I was an iPhone user for 3 years. Great device, even now I have a Galaxy S2 I still think the actual iPhone hardware is the best phone around although it could do with being a bit bigger. I lived with it for ages but was eventually driven away by the lack of ability to simply copy and paste mp3's to the phone memory etc, you are FORCED to use iTunes (which I hate) if you want your music on the phone. It never officially had wireless synchronisation until very recently. In the early days you couldn't have a custom text message tone - unbelievable for a £600 phone, even my old Sony Ericsson could do that!

For those who say Mac's never need updates, erm I think you'll find they do, and some of the updates include serious fixes which Apple actually BURY near the end of the list of fixes, one example is a bug from about 2 years ago where logging in as a guest and logging out again would completely delete your user profile! Apple at first denied this was a bug, then later fixed it quietly claiming it wasn't a serious flaw.

One last thing...I was looking at a Mac Mini in Currys or something ages ago, and was amazed to learn that the SD card slot is on the BACK.

 

[joescrivens]

I have used Macs, a friend of mine does video production a lot and I was trying to edit some footage on his Macbook Pro and found the lack of right click extremely annoying and counter productive.

what was stopping you do a right click?

I run Windows 7 at home and my mouse has 13 clickable buttons (although I only use 3 - left click, right click and scroll wheel click) most of the time.

my apple magic mouse has 24 clicks and gestures!!! beat that

 

[asphotographymk]

I have used Macs, a friend of mine does video production a lot and I was trying to edit some footage on his Macbook Pro and found the lack of right click extremely annoying and counter productive. .

Why could you not right click? Macs are fully capable of right clicks.

 

[joescrivens]

Why could you not right click? Macs are fully capable of right clicks.

there's an echo in here

 

[onomatopoeia]

what was stopping you do a right click?

While it wasn't me that bought it up, on the Macs we have in the office the (apple supplied) mouse is one big button, it doesn't have a "right click" at all.

 

[clarkeg]

On windows this doesn't happen (at least on XP) - i can't remember if it is the whole filename and extension that gets highlighted or nothing, or if the cursor just lands at the end of the extension if you press F2. But on the mac if I did want to change the whole thing, then it's not as simple, it's designed for the majority of users

Windows 7 has this feature, even if I have my settings to view file extensions and I right click to rename it only highlights the file name and not the extension.

Clarke

 

[joescrivens]

While it wasn't me that bought it up, on the Macs we have in the office the (apple supplied) mouse is one big button, it doesn't have a "right click" at all.

it does.

Not all buttons are physical buttons. Trust me theres a right click button under there.

its a common misconception among windoze users

 

[joescrivens]

Windows 7 has this feature, even if I have my settings to view file extensions and I right click to rename it only highlights the file name and not the extension.

Clarke

there you go, I guess they took it from osx

 

[asphotographymk]

As Joe says just becasue it looks like one button does not mean there is no right click. All you need to do is press the right hand side of the mouse (if thats how you have it set up ) and there you have a right click. Press the left side and there you have a left click.

 

[onomatopoeia]

it does.

Not all buttons are physical buttons. Trust me theres a right click button under there.

its a common misconception among windoze users

Is that true of all macs in the last decade? It didn't seem to be on this particular one. We've got another mouse that is like how you describe -superficially one "button" but microswitches on both sides.

 

[PSILVERMAN]

Or on the pad a two finger tap is a right click.

 

[joescrivens]

Is that true of all macs in the last decade? It didn't seem to be on this particular one. We've got another mouse that is like how you describe -superficially one "button" but microswitches on both sides.

they always had a "secondary click" as they call it. It was included on the mouse from the mighty mouse onwards from 2005

the pro mouse before it had no 2nd button because the OS didn't really take advantage of a secondary click very often, back then you held a ctrl button before clicking to get the secondary click, but it wasn't contextually used very often, it got added as the OS changed