M25 - variable speed limits

Lynton

Lynton

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Just a quickie.....

From about the M4 junction through to A10 now, the M4 has loads of gantries with variable speed limits..

If a speed limit is showing, I presume any speed camera is active, be it from 30 through to national (70)

If nothing is showing, the V S L is switched off, are the cameras still active or not?

:|:cool:
 
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neil_g said:
Worst "I was speeding and want to know if I'm getting a ticket" thread ever.

;)

I believe not though .
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Oh you cynic.

Wrong. No double flash in my rear view mirrors... was intrigued that some went up from 40 , 50 , 60 to national, and then blank... surely if it is variable and no issues, would display national...

Also if you look at the roads and see the metre markings, then there is more than likely a camera there........

Also your answer to what you don't believe does not clarify what you don't believer? Lights off is camera on or off?
 
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Pretty sure that whatever the speed showing on the gantry, the camera will only 'go off' if you exceed maximum speed limit (and then some).
 
Gantry off = camera off

Never seen the ones around Newport on the M4 off, even at midnight when there's no one else on the road
 
Dalton said:
Pretty sure that whatever the speed showing on the gantry, the camera will only 'go off' if you exceed maximum speed limit (and then some).
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They may only fire for over a certain speed, but they read plates and work out if you've sped between each check point
 
Uneducated_Rick said:
They may only fire for over a certain speed, but they read plates and work out if you've sped between each check point
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I doubt that! Not the grey fixed gantry cameras anyway. The yellow average speed cameras do this (on the 50mph sections of the M25). Although I have several colleagues who don't believe these work as they regularly drive through them a lot faster than 50mph.
 
The cameras are only on when they display a speed limit, unless your doing over 100mph then the go off :-) voice of experience here was caught doing 120mph on the m25 :-(

Got away with it lightly because my wife was in labour and had to get home and it was 1am
 
And By Lightly i mean I didn't go to prison lol
 
Lynton said:
Oh you cynic. Wrong. No double flash in my rear view mirrors... was intrigued that some went up from 40 , 50 , 60 to national, and then blank... surely if it is variable and no issues, would display national... Also if you look at the roads and see the metre markings, then there is more than likely a camera there........ Also your answer to what you don't believe does not clarify what you don't believer? Lights off is camera on or off?
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:D

I don't believe the camera is active if there isn't a displayed speed.

Although I wouldn't rely on that, it wouldn't be hard for them to change without telling you. Unless there's some bizarre law that says otherwise. Best bet is to stick to the limit (at least going through the gantries).
 
I certainly hope not! As I drove along the southern & western M25 today - twice!

And what is it about the avg speed cameras in Kent. I'm used to seeing non-Brit plates speed through them but at times I felt I was the only one driving at anywhere near 50.
 
2blue4u said:
I certainly hope not! As I drove along the southern & western M25 today - twice! And what is it about the avg speed cameras in Kent. I'm used to seeing non-Brit plates speed through them but at times I felt I was the only one driving at anywhere near 50.
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Definitely not alone there. I know some speedos are inaccurate but some people fly through average checks.
 
neil_g said:
:D

I don't believe the camera is active if there isn't a displayed speed.

Although I wouldn't rely on that, it wouldn't be hard for them to change without telling you. Unless there's some bizarre law that says otherwise. Best bet is to stick to the limit (at least going through the gantries).
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exactly.. what I did.. which probably causes more issues than not having them... :thinking:
 
The ones near leeds on the M62 seem to be used just to drop the speed limit to 60 even when it's not congested

What with perfectly good A roads being dropped to 50 when a dirt track off them has a national limit sign, towns being dropped to 20 so some tool overtakes at 40 and traffic lights every 200m the UK is becoming a joke
 
wack61 said:
The ones near leeds on the M62 seem to be used just to drop the speed limit to 60 even when it's not congested
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I went through the m62 ones before i realised they where there.. drove miles through them and waited for weeks expecing a summons... that was months ago... my average speed on mway is 80.. but always 50 through actual road works.. i have seen flashes on them.. just not for me..
 
The only thing they think they can control is speed , fixed cameras don't work , the locals know where they are

Speed camera vans do slow traffic because the element of doubt is there if they pop up randomly in the same place but IMO they're rarely in the right place usually on a straight piece of road where there hasn't been an accident in years

More cars are getting cameras in now which I think will lead to more prosecutions , hopefully for drivers like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DrsV9wqtsM&feature=youtube_gdata_player
 
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wack61 said:
The ones near leeds on the M62 seem to be used just to drop the speed limit to 60 even when it's not conges
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Its there to help stop/reduce congestion and they will slow traffic to avoid it building up so you may find it seems like there was no congestion.
 
That may be true but when I was on it it was the middle of the morning, it's usually large volumes of traffic joining the motorway at rush hour that bring it to a stop not because there's traffic on it
 
wack61 said:
That may be true but when I was on it it was the middle of the morning, it's usually large volumes of traffic joining the motorway at rush hour that bring it to a stop not because there's traffic on it
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Mid morning is a time where a lot of folk drive too quickly and too close together on motorways. In this situation one set of illuminated brake lights can cause a cascade that brings the motorway to a standstill 3 miles back.

Slowing it down to 60 doesn't add much at all onto your journey time but it almost completely negates the random standstills that are annoying.
 
I read a little while ago that the VSL cameras on the M62 operate even when there isn't a VSL in place http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/highways-chiefs-reveal-m62-cameras-6152759

Now I'm not saying that the same goes for the $camera$ on the M25 (there are some on the stretch between the dartford crossing and at least the M11 junctions) but it's fair to say I'm a lot more conscious of my speed through the VSL sections even if there aren't any restrictions in place.
 
RichardtheSane said:
Mid morning is a time where a lot of folk drive too quickly and too close together on motorways. In this situation one set of illuminated brake lights can cause a cascade that brings the motorway to a standstill 3 miles back.

Slowing it down to 60 doesn't add much at all onto your journey time but it almost completely negates the random standstills that are annoying.
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I drive 50,000 miles a year 90% on the motorway, unless there's an incident as they like to call it now I can't say I've noticed constant stop starts at 11am before all these variable limits were put in

Yesterday at Birmingham I overtook a lawn tractor on a trailer, the wind had lifted the bodywork so it was hanging off the back, I indicated to the driver there was a problem

Nowhere for him to stop because of "traffic management"

Luckily he made it to the next junction without it disintegrating

My opinion is its fine in rush hour at 40-50mph but no hard shoulder and 60 is dangerous
 
wack61 said:
I drive 50,000 miles a year 90% on the motorway, unless there's an incident as they like to call it now I can't say I've noticed constant stop starts at 11am before all these variable limits were put in

Yesterday at Birmingham I overtook a lawn tractor on a trailer, the wind had lifted the bodywork so it was hanging off the back, I indicated to the driver there was a problem

Nowhere for him to stop because of "traffic management"

Luckily he made it to the next junction without it disintegrating

My opinion is its fine in rush hour at 40-50mph but no hard shoulder and 60 is dangerous
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That's strange there should be emergency refugee area, which I would put this under for them to pull into.
 
He wasn't that far from the junction so may have just passed one I didn't notice , i was in lane 3 of 4 , he was in lane 2 on the run up to J10 where the hard shoulder becomes a mile long slip road

when the traffic is doing 60 slowing to get into a refuge with a trailer on could be quite dangerous where pulling on to a never ending hard shoulder at speed and slowing out of the flow of traffic is less dangerous
 
Dalton said:
Not the grey fixed gantry cameras anyway.
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I thought actual speed cameras had to be painted yellow and be obvious to see (and signposted). I'm sure the small grey cameras on gantries are just to view traffic conditions.


Steve.
 
2blue4u said:
I certainly hope not! As I drove along the southern & western M25 today - twice!

And what is it about the avg speed cameras in Kent. I'm used to seeing non-Brit plates speed through them but at times I felt I was the only one driving at anywhere near 50.
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They definitely work, because a little loss of attention early last year, saw me get a ticket for 56 in the 50 zone (probably 60 on the speedo).
It amazes me how many people disregard them altogether, they must have deep pockets, ignore the fines or have some way of getting away with it:shrug:
 
Can't speak for the ones down south but the m62 ones around Leeds flash any speeding drivers, although not sure how much leeway there is.

If the signs arn't showing a speed restriction there is still a speed limit in force, 70mph and they still flash when showing no restriction. Lately I've seen much less of it though as I think the penny is dropping with regular users.
 
Steve Smith said:
I thought actual speed cameras had to be painted yellow and be obvious to see (and signposted). I'm sure the small grey cameras on gantries are just to view traffic conditions.


Steve.
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I don't think they are - they look like the have a flash which would not be needed on a traffic camera.

But i have never seen the ones along the M4 near Newport flash anybody, despite driving along the section twice a day for 18 months.
 
Where VSL are concerned I think on the whole they're a good idea and if used/controlled properly can help smooth the flow or traffic and/or increase safety.

However, unless there's a warning to the effect of "speed cameras in permenant use" having the camera working when there isn't a VSL in place is a little underhanded.

Now I know I'm probably going to get preached to about exceeding the speed limit being a cardinal sin and that anyone who does so needs to have their right foot chopped off to make them think twice about speeding again but.........

If there's a speed limit, you make a conscious decision as to whether you're going to exceed it or not. That decision may be influenced by a number of things, for example if you think it's safe to do so and the likelyhood of being caught is low then you may be more inclined to take your chances and travel a little faster. I've heard of numerous examples where in good concidtions, police patrols have turned a blind eye to cars travelling up to 85mph.

My understanding is that the idea of speed cameras is to improve road safety.... well that's what the police and other authorities keep telling us so let's take that as gospel.

If when entering a VSL zone there was a sign warning that speed cameras are in constant use, it's likely that the vast majority of drivers would obey the 70MPH limit, thus the number of people exceeding the speed limit would be less and the road would be safer?

Otherwise not warning that the camera are in constant operation *could* be seen as an underhanded tactic in lulling drivers into a false sense of security to generate revenue.

I guess it comes down to individual authorities/organisation who run them to decide how/when they operate rather than a blanket rule?
 
AFAIK, enforcement of speed limits (variable or fixed) is to at least some extent discretionary (when real humans are involved) and enforced to greater or lesser extents by the assorted police forces around the country. Again AFAIK, there are guidelines but these are guidelines not hard and fast rules (no pun intended) and some forces are stricter than others when it comes to enforcement and "grace" allowances. In most cases, lower than usual limits such as those in contraflows are more strictly enforced than NSL areas due to the real risk to workers who are in close proximity to the traffic (hence the many overhead yellow average speed gantries).

Personally, (when I'm allowed to drive!) I tend to stay under 80 when there's other traffic about but have been known to stray above that on clear roads. In town though, I treat the limits as limits rather than targets, especially the 20 MPH ones near schools (although some other 20 limits get a little less respect...)

Oddly, I've found that my car is more economical and hence less polluting at 80 than it is at 79 - presumably a turbo kicks in and helps at those revs (the 2nd turbo kicks in far higher up the range [AFAIK] and is the performance booster rather than the economy one). Similarly, the gearing is off for town (especially 20 limits), with it refusing to stay up in 3rd rather than 2nd until 23 MPH. 30 sees it happy in 4th as long as the road's flat (and I've flapped the paddle to change up!)
 
I don't know if they're using different types of flash these days but I've known them flash when all its doing is discharging the flash
 
Russ77 said:
Where VSL are concerned I think on the whole they're a good idea and if used/controlled properly can help smooth the flow or traffic and/or increase safety.

However, unless there's a warning to the effect of "speed cameras in permenant use" having the camera working when there isn't a VSL in place is a little underhanded.

Now I know I'm probably going to get preached to about exceeding the speed limit being a cardinal sin and that anyone who does so needs to have their right foot chopped off to make them think twice about speeding again but.........

If there's a speed limit, you make a conscious decision as to whether you're going to exceed it or not. That decision may be influenced by a number of things, for example if you think it's safe to do so and the likelyhood of being caught is low then you may be more inclined to take your chances and travel a little faster. I've heard of numerous examples where in good concidtions, police patrols have turned a blind eye to cars travelling up to 85mph.

My understanding is that the idea of speed cameras is to improve road safety.... well that's what the police and other authorities keep telling us so let's take that as gospel.

If when entering a VSL zone there was a sign warning that speed cameras are in constant use, it's likely that the vast majority of drivers would obey the 70MPH limit, thus the number of people exceeding the speed limit would be less and the road would be safer?

Otherwise not warning that the camera are in constant operation *could* be seen as an underhanded tactic in lulling drivers into a false sense of security to generate revenue.

I guess it comes down to individual authorities/organisation who run them to decide how/when they operate rather than a blanket rule?
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Good point....

I will confess to a few years back on the 4 lane bit of the A1M southbound at peterborough - 4 lane motorway, deserted..

Micra lane 2 of empty lane 1, doing about 60... I am in lane one at an indicated 85 so prob about 78...(dry empty well lit road) pull across to lane 3 to overtake and then cut back in, next thing a Mondeo cuts me up and the back window lights up with "police".... plain clothes police car...

Got a telling off, but noting else. Nice cop. The good thing about a copper is discretion can be applied. A Scamera is set to g off at limit + x irrespective.... and before all you speeding nazis start to have a go... it is often unsafe and inappropriate to drive at the posted limit.
 
The cameras on the M25 have been there a LONG time and so aren't as advanced as the newer ones on (say) the M62.

The urban legend is that almost every gantry has a camera but that only one camera is turned on at any one time. The theory is that the detector fields could interfere with each other and render them inaccurate (remember, these are old cameras, they are closer together and higher up than any cameras of a similar vintage and that this is all rumour and supposition).

Sometimes they are active when no speed limit shows - I certainly know of people who say there was no limit posted but still got a ticket. They are old enough to be film so it makes sense not to use them a lot since the film would need changing which is expensive and dangerous.

I din't know if any of that is true but I've often seen stretches of no traffic at national speed limit followed by one gantry set to 40mph. Most traffic brakes hard for it and that can't be good.
 
JonathanRyan said:
The cameras on the M25 have been there a LONG time and so aren't as advanced as the newer ones on (say) the M62.

The urban legend is that almost every gantry has a camera but that only one camera is turned on at any one time. The theory is that the detector fields could interfere with each other and render them inaccurate (remember, these are old cameras, they are closer together and higher up than any cameras of a similar vintage and that this is all rumour and supposition).

Sometimes they are active when no speed limit shows - I certainly know of people who say there was no limit posted but still got a ticket. They are old enough to be film so it makes sense not to use them a lot since the film would need changing which is expensive and dangerous.

I din't know if any of that is true but I've often seen stretches of no traffic at national speed limit followed by one gantry set to 40mph. Most traffic brakes hard for it and that can't be good.
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There are some newer ones on the M25 around the M11 Junction and likewise on the M1 not long after you join it from the M25. Tend to be a lot more conscious of my speed through those sections even when a VSL isn't in force..... bit late after you get a summons :lol:

With regards to not all cameras working at the same time because of interference. I think the fact behind that urban legend was that the makers (Gatso) only ever intended the cameras to be used in "standalone" and had never tested/certified them for use in groups or close proximity. People were using this as a loophole to try and get off of being prosecuted.

I have no doubt that the newer cameras could work together quite happily and are even able to tell if you brushed your teeth that morning :lol:
 
Ah yeah - M11 bit has newer cameras.

The M4 section they have been there forever. Don't know if they have upgraded them or not.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Ah yeah - M11 bit has newer cameras.

The M4 section they have been there forever. Don't know if they have upgraded them or not.
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No idea but I'm not going to test them to see if they have or try and use the "proximity" loophole :lol:
 
the cameras enforce NSL/blank just the same as the other speed limits shown
 
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