LR3 & Raw

Gazbag

Gazbag

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Gary Kirk
Edit My Images
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Ladies and Gentlemen, lend me your ears...... no dont or your glasses will fall off:nuts:

Seriously though, I really am struggling to understand Raw. I look at photographs on here in absolute awe of the IQ and just feel like giving up, but no worries, I wont.

Budget like many is a real stopper as far as buying really good quality glass and I have a couple of low to mid quality lens for my sony, but feel I could really improve some of my shots in PP. I also take note by reading on here that lots of togs suggest using Raw where possible.

Now, my limited understanding is that Raw is a different format in which the picture is stored, and very little in camera processing takes place, whereas Jpg is the same shot but the camera tries to give you the best it can with the limited onboard processing it contians. Am I babbling on, sorry....

Raw is a massive file and really needs to be brought out in Post Processing and thats where my main question lies. LR3 is on a very good offer just now as the newest version has just been released. Will LR3 offer a PP level that the ordinary layman will understand, is it easy to use, and will it read my Raw files. I have read that there are different type of Raw and I am again confused with all this mumbo jumbo.:gag:

I guess what I would like to know, is LR3 worth the money (£98) and is it easy to up load my file to it:thinking:

Phew..... thats one very long winded way of asking a simple question:bonk:

Thank you.
 
Gazbag said:
Ladies and Gentlemen, lend me your ears...... no dont or your glasses will fall off:nuts:

Seriously though, I really am struggling to understand Raw. I look at photographs on here in absolute awe of the IQ and just feel like giving up, but no worries, I wont.

Budget like many is a real stopper as far as buying really good quality glass and I have a couple of low to mid quality lens for my sony, but feel I could really improve some of my shots in PP. I also take note by reading on here that lots of togs suggest using Raw where possible.

Now, my limited understanding is that Raw is a different format in which the picture is stored, and very little in camera processing takes place, whereas Jpg is the same shot but the camera tries to give you the best it can with the limited onboard processing it contians. Am I babbling on, sorry....

Raw is a massive file and really needs to be brought out in Post Processing and thats where my main question lies. LR3 is on a very good offer just now as the newest version has just been released. Will LR3 offer a PP level that the ordinary layman will understand, is it easy to use, and will it read my Raw files. I have read that there are different type of Raw and I am again confused with all this mumbo jumbo.:gag:

I guess what I would like to know, is LR3 worth the money (£98) and is it easy to up load my file to it:thinking:

Phew..... thats one very long winded way of asking a simple question:bonk:

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Download the free trail of Lightroom and find out for yourself.

IMO you can't go go wrong with LR. Move some sliders, if you don't like it, move them back. It's a non destructive edit, the original RAW file remains unchanged no matter what you do.. You can do 100 edits of the same photo if you wanted to, but you'd always still have the original RAW file there to go back to.

LR supports all major RAW files, I doubt there are any it can't do.

Is it worth it?.. Well I haven't used my £600+ version of photoshop CS5 since getting Lightroom about 2 years ago.
 
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Lightroom 3 can also be found on line from £89 from somewhere or other, do a google search. Alternatively amazon have it for £95. I'm in the same boat as you so I downloaded Lightroom trial and have just been messing with the sliders. I still find it very confusing but I can see how pictures can be improved.

I have never shot in anything other than auto mode previously and now shoot in only RAW. The thing I understand about RAW is that you can convert the picture to a jpeg but you can use the RAW file to make changes via Lightroom and then compare.
 
Gazbag said:
Budget like many is a real stopper as far as buying really good quality glass and I have a couple of low to mid quality lens for my sony, but feel I could really improve some of my shots in PP.
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Any editor program including free ones can add extra sharpening to an image. Shooting raw is a good idea but it will not make a soft lens into a star performer.

Apart from the bit quoted above the answers are generally yes :)

If you've not already looked at it this will be worth a read -

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=210392
 
I would 100% recommend LR3, it's very simple to use and allows you to manage/catalogue your images, definitely worth £100 IMHO.

It can take a little while to get the hang of the process flow and set up the exports to meet your requirements but there are lots of tutorials online and you'll get plenty of help on here too :)
 
Thank you all for your input. It would seem like a good investment and will allow me to expand my knowledge of PP. The fact that there appears to be good tuition on youtube and others seem to reccomend it can only be a good thing. Once again thank you all, very helpful.
 
LR3 is a great program. Have put a few of my friends onto it who are computer-savvy but not familiar with PP software. They've taken to it very quickly.

I wouldn't buy into the whole thing that shooting in raw will suddenly give you some massive leap in IQ - it won't. What it will do is help you to process the file with more control and with more precision than compressed formats like jpeg. I find the beauty of raw + LR3 is in the ease of use with which you can edit multiple versions of the same shot, all on one screen and without having to save versions. The virtual copy option (crtl + click on image on a mac) helps in that you can have several versions of the same shot all side-by-side that you can edit in many different ways to see how a shot will best look.

The sharpening function in LR is excellent, as are the controls over saturation, luminance and hue - these play a massive part in working different parts of the image with more finesse than a global adjustment.

There is a free public beta version of LR4 available for download but it expires when the proper LR4 is released. Not played with it yet....
 
Lightroom is a great tool, but to use it to get all the benefits means getting into the Lightroom way of thinking, it isn't just an image processing tool, it's an end to end photography workflow tool, from importing, sorting and general image management to preparing images for output and in some cases managing files that are already on services such as Flickr, buying it just for processing would be a waste.

I found that Martin Evening's Lightroom book was really useful to understand how it worked or the videos on Adobe TV.

I can certainly say that Lightroom is the best money I've ever spent on photography.
 
specialman said:
LR3 is a great program. Have put a few of my friends onto it who are computer-savvy but not familiar with PP software. They've taken to it very quickly.

I wouldn't buy into the whole thing that shooting in raw will suddenly give you some massive leap in IQ - it won't. What it will do is help you to process the file with more control and with more precision than compressed formats like jpeg. I find the beauty of raw + LR3 is in the ease of use with which you can edit multiple versions of the same shot, all on one screen and without having to save versions. The virtual copy option (crtl + click on image on a mac) helps in that you can have several versions of the same shot all side-by-side that you can edit in many different ways to see how a shot will best look.

The sharpening function in LR is excellent, as are the controls over saturation, luminance and hue - these play a massive part in working different parts of the image with more finesse than a global adjustment.

There is a free public beta version of LR4 available for download but it expires when the proper LR4 is released. Not played with it yet....
Click to expand...

+1
Lightroom is an excellent tool.

Raw is all about taking control of the processing and not about absolute image quality (that's what lenses are about). The slight error in the opening post is around jpeg and the camera trying to get the best image possible. This isn't the case, difference between raw and jpeg is that with jpeg the camera assigns the processing specified in the camera set-up. If you're not controlling the jpeg options, then you're accepting the default settings - which is potentially a worse position than if the camera was genuinely adapting the settings to optimise the image.

SOOC would be great, but life's too short to be standing in a muddy field pre-guessing the optimum setting to apply in-camera to get the shot right first time out of camera without chimping the screen and reshooting as I make minor incremental differences that the LCD screen on the camera can't resolve anyway. I'll take the raw file, a warm office and a cup of coffee every time..
 
Lightroom 3 is an excellent program for keen photographers who want to manage and manipulate their library of photographs and who do not need all of the graphics capabilities of the full Photoshop CS3. I have been using Lightroom for several years and it suits me fine. Although I also have Photoshop Elements 10 for more advanced editing than Lightroom I very rarely need to use it. Anyone who wants to find their way around Lightroom could do worse than buying the Lightroom 3 Classroom in a Book which takes you through it in easy stages. Not cheap (about £28 from Amazon) but cheaper than many courses that would not teach you half as much.
 
The more info the better for me....... thank you one and all.
I have conferred with my domestic bank manager and it looks like LR3 will be ordered next pay day..... stand by for all the questions from then on :help:
 
Whilst you're waiting for it to arrive, download the trial from the adobe website. It's the full version and you can use it for 30days, so when you buy it you just type in the serial number that comes with it and it stops being a trial.
I just got LR3 myself. The disc that arrived was v3.0, but there's an update to v3.6, so downloading it straight from the website would have given me the latest version straight away.
 
WooooHooooo LR3 ordered. Now begins the learning curve :bang: :thumbs:
 
Can recommend the Scott Kelby book to assist with learning LR3, know I would have been stumped without it
 
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Word of advice - think about how you load, sort and archive your images first.

The processing and outputting elements of LR are dead easy to grasp once you've had a play with the sliders - it all become pretty self-explanatory. However, how you store your images and link them to LR can be the key to making it work quicker for you.

Some people like to load directly from the memory card using the pop-dialogiue box that comes up when LR detects one connected to the computer. As a default, LR will put the images into a dated folder in the area of your HD that is selected. I prefer to manually drag images into a named folder that is specific to a job.

Either way, when you do import into LR it's worth getting into the habit of key wording images to help you find images through the search function at a later date, and if you upload to Flickr (using the built-in Flickr uploader) then those keywords and tags carry over, meaning your images are pre-tagged. If you are interested in getting lots of hits on flickr from other users, this is one ay to increase traffic.

Also, read up about catalogues. This is the file that LR looks to when it opens up; the catalogue contains all image data, image settings, adjustments, keywords etc. The original files never get adjusted - LR is non-destructive, so just applies settings over each image to give you the look you want - but making sure the catalogue is safe is the key to making sure you keep track of all changes and all files. Backing up the catalogue to a separate location is worth doing, in addition to backing up images.

Also, as and when you import files and folders into LR, a link between the file's location and the software will be created. If you move files and folders manually outside of LR, the link will be broken and a question mark icon will appear over the preview thumbnail - that tells you the link needs to be re-linked. If you do want to one files around from one folder to another, you can drag-and-drop from within LR, which keeps the links active and also updates the catalogue as-and-when you make a change. This saves any confusion.

I think you'll really like LR, as it's an all-in-one solution to getting images loaded, organised, processed and outputted in a very quick, efficient package.
 
LR3 is a great bit of software and easy to use. I also recommend the Scott Kelby book as mentioned above somewhere. It takes you through everything Specialman has just mentioned to keep your photos in good catalogued order, as well as how to use all the sliders, and all the one key shortcut etc.
 
Well by the replies received, I think I'm in good company. I am by no means a clever lad so I expect to have some very trying moments during the learing process. I will be looking at youtube as I understand there are some very good visual lessons on there and I will be getting the recommended books. Thank you for the information and direction I should be taking and perhaps one day I will feel confident enough in my work to show a few examples PP through LR3.
 
Well LR3.6 has arrived and boy am I confused. Menus, sliders, buttons presets etc oh my poor head. I see what you mean by knowing how to upload my pictures....... pressed the upload button and all 700+ arrived in LR in one big mass file. I guess I will now need the books to start reading...:gag:
 
If you didn't move you files from your previous file structure I'd suggesting doing some research/planning then reimport everything into a new catalog when you have a strategy set out. It's a lot easier to start how you mean to go on, rather than change at a later date.
 
Lewis - get back to enjoying your holiday :lol:

Good advice though.... it's a nightmare if you get your archiving wrong.... question marked images all over the shop :)
 
Definitely need to start again with importing your files otherwise it will be a mess for evermore
 
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Well I have the Trail of LR3 just now, and talking about importing. I have my images from the last 8 years all in my own file system -> Year-> Month-> Event/Group of images

I see this being a big problem as some of the end folders have a few dates in them, there is a good 50gb of photos in all and it would be a mon=moth task to re filing them in another way... I think its going to be messy. Either that or just leave as is and start a fresh from now.

When people plug their card/camera into PC where do you put them? Just out of interest, to them import to LR?
 
I create a folder on the desktop with the name of the shoot. For magazine work its the anacronym or just a general title such as 'summer holiday 2012'. Images are manually dragged from card into this folder.

Then, go into LR > import and locate the folder. Input keywords and other data and then just import all images.

Then I just get rid of the really, really bad shots (total deletion using CTRL + X > delete images) and then start editing images.

If HD space is tight, the first step should be to copy the images onto an external hard drive and work from there. :)
 
I love Lightroom, it's made me more aware of the mistakes I have been making whilst taking photos. I notice the conditions when I tend to be under / over exposing and it's allowing me to correct my technique.

As a word of warning, there are a number of online photographers that sell presets. Whilst they may help your images learning to use the programme is better than spending £10+ on a preset.
 
I create a folder on the desktop with the name of the shoot. For magazine work its the anacronym or just a general title such as 'summer holiday 2012'. Images are manually dragged from card into this folder.

Then, go into LR > import and locate the folder. Input keywords and other data and then just import all images.
Click to expand...

I do exactly the same and never import direct into LR3 when prompted at inserting the card into the reader stage
 
Cool thinking of keeping a backup of the originals on my second drive them importing from there. Where does LR keep its 'copies' of photos? Can't seem to find them?
 
mata.morrison said:
Cool thinking of keeping a backup of the originals on my second drive them importing from there. Where does LR keep its 'copies' of photos? Can't seem to find them?
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My drive hierarchy is actually like this:

Screen_Shot_2012-02-22_at_19_21_44.png


As you can see, I have several main drives (not plugged in, hence being greyed out) that each correspond to a year. Within that I have 'PICTURES GO HERE' so I know this is the overall image folder; this means I can use the drive for backing up other files but these never get lost within image folders.
Then within that main folder I have 'MY IMAGES' and 'WORK' - the uses for these are obvious :)
You can see from the expanded folder list that within 'WORK' I have a folder that relates to each magazine I work on (MF mean Match Fishing, ACF means Advanced Carp Fishing etc). Job folders for each magazine are then dragged into each magazine folder and named after the shoot (e.g. 'MF - Darren Cox (warks avon)', which means that particular jobs are easy to find

I have my main drive of images and a duplicate drive that is a mirror image that is basically my 'in case of emergency' drive. These aren't linked to LR3 but are set out in the same fashion so I can quickly find items that may have gone missing.
 
I'm fairly new to photography but I'm not new to computers. Lightroom has been the best purchase I've made so far.

As above I think the best advice is to keep ALL your photos under one folder. You can have as many sub folders as you like. The reason is you can back up this one main folder any way you feel comtable with, if all goes tits up you can take from your backup & re link to your Lightroom catalogue and everything is golden.

Lightroom is non distuctive, the Lightroom catalogue is just a data file that remembers the alterations to your original unchanged files.

So If you have used folders that are scattered all over your drives then re linking your catalogues to these folders if disaster happens would be a nightmare & hours of Lightroom editing could be lost.

This was the advice from a Lightroom tutorial video. So again, keep all photos under 1 folder (or split into years as above), keep a regular backup of it & have a backup of you Lightroom catalogue (only a relatively small file) and you should be safe.
 
Gazbag said:
Will LR3 offer a PP level that the ordinary layman will understand, is it easy to use, and will it read my Raw files. I have read that there are different type of Raw and I am again confused with all this mumbo jumbo.:gag:

I guess what I would like to know, is LR3 worth the money (£98) and is it easy to up load my file to it:thinking:
Click to expand...

Comprehensive yes to both of those questions. Lightroom is a fantastic peice of software that is comparitively easy to use.

Best of luck,

Alex
 
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