Low Key Equine

Manc Man

Manc Man

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Darren
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Guys i am a complete noob when it come to lighting....

I have been photographing horse show for the last few years and have started to do photo shoots with horse and rider / just the horse.
I am looking to offer low key lighting, i sure you all know the style of image i mean.
I will be shooting outdoors in daylight without any backdrop.... I know i will have to completely under expose to get the dark background.
I was wondering what lighting kit people would recommend... i currently only have a Canon 430ex ii flash.

one friend has recommend the Elinchrom Ranger RX AS speed with the A heads x 2 and a skyport trigger unit. It does look the dogs ******** but at £2,500 a little expensive.

Any recommendation for yourselves would be a great help. I am sure Gary Edwards will have some suggestions..

thank you in advance

Darren
 
To overpower daylight, and light that carefully, I'd recommend a pair of Lencarta safari2's. I think they do a twin pack for half that of the Ranger set.
 
Since I'm invited... :)
If you decide to go with the Elinchrom, then I see no point in getting the more expensive A heads, which will reduce the effective power anyway. They would serve no purpose in bright daylight.

The Lencarta Safari 2 1200 Ws will do exactly the same job, and with better battery life, less weight and more power for half the cost
 
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Phil V said:
To overpower daylight, and light that carefully, I'd recommend a pair of Lencarta safari2's. I think they do a twin pack for half that of the Ranger set.
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Garry Edwards said:
Since I'm invited... :)
If you decide to go with the Elinchrom, then I see no point in getting the more expensive A heads, which will reduce the effective power anyway. They would serve no purpose in bright daylight.

The Lencarta Safari 2 1200 Ws will do exactly the same job, and with better battery life, less weight and more power for half the cost
Click to expand...

Thank you guys.... I knew i had come to the right place...

I will have a look now Gary at Safari 2
 
I'll add, I have a single one and it's great.
 
Manc Man said:
Cheers Phil.
I think with the Safari 2 i will have more scope to be creative with the lighting.
Think with the Elinchrom Ranger i am unable to set the power on each flash, so both would be fired at the same power.

Darren
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It seems the Ranger is seriously old old tech now, they've hardly changed in years, whereas the Lencarta and a couple of others are being continuously updated, the latest one is faster, lighter and cheaper than it's predecessor. Unfortunately it lacks the ring flash available with the older one and the ability to fire 2 heads from the same controller (although it was a limited feature and the price means it's nearly as cheap for 2 better units)
 
Phil V said:
It seems the Ranger is seriously old old tech now, they've hardly changed in years, whereas the Lencarta and a couple of others are being continuously updated, the latest one is faster, lighter and cheaper than it's predecessor. Unfortunately it lacks the ring flash available with the older one and the ability to fire 2 heads from the same controller (although it was a limited feature and the price means it's nearly as cheap for 2 better units)
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A ring flash is being developed.
With the twin unit, you get 2 flash heads that can be fired together but controlled individually - i.e. they will both flash together but each can totally independent control and each can be set at anywhere from full power to 1/32nd power.
It's the most advanced unit out there except for the superb but incredibly expensive Bron.
And the fact that it is supplied as two separate units that work together means that there is redundancy, and no need for extension leads. I know I'm predudiced, but it's a bit of a no brainer:)
 
Garry Edwards said:
A ring flash is being developed.
With the twin unit, you get 2 flash heads that can be fired together but controlled individually - i.e. they will both flash together but each can totally independent control and each can be set at anywhere from full power to 1/32nd power.
It's the most advanced unit out there except for the superb but incredibly expensive Bron.
And the fact that it is supplied as two separate units that work together means that there is redundancy, and no need for extension leads. I know I'm predudiced, but it's a bit of a no brainer:)
Click to expand...
I did mention that the older units 2 head system was limiting (and the ranger). Anyway, you should be resting! Put your feet up and watch Metallica at Glastonbury :wacky:
 
Phil V said:
I did mention that the older units 2 head system was limiting (and the ranger). Anyway, you should be resting! Put your feet up and watch Metallica at Glastonbury :wacky:
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I am resting - and bored out of my mind!

I normally spend my weekends missing clay pigeons, don't know when I'll be able to do that again...
But recovering well, keytone and blood sugar levels now only 3x what they should be
 
Garry Edwards said:
I am resting - and bored out of my mind!

I normally spend my weekends missing clay pigeons, don't know when I'll be able to do that again...
But recovering well, keytone and blood sugar levels now only 3x what they should be
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It's difficult taking things easy when you're used to such a full life, but you have to look on the bright side. 2 or 3 of those clays have had a stay of execution. The Brazil game was great tonight, but my guess is you didn't see it.

Keep your chin up and you'll soon be back out scaring the locals with you big weapon.
 
Yep, easily done with the Safari 2 1200 Ws kit, even in the brightest sunshine.
I'm not certain, but I think that Mike Weeks does similar work, using the previous model.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Yep, easily done with the Safari 2 1200 Ws kit, even in the brightest sunshine.
I'm not certain, but I think that Mike Weeks does similar work, using the previous model.
Click to expand...

Cheers for that Gary Edwards.
Just a quick question that i am sure you will be able to answer.
You mention in the earlier post the Safari was more powerful, i know is 2 x 600w = 1200w but the Elinchrom Ranger RX is 1100w per light or so i thought.

Does this mean that it splits the power between the number of light you have connected to the supply unit.

Darren
 
Manc Man said:
Cheers for that Gary Edwards.
Just a quick question that i am sure you will be able to answer.
You mention in the earlier post the Safari was more powerful, i know is 2 x 600w = 1200w but the Elinchrom Ranger RX is 1100w per light or so i thought.

Does this mean that it splits the power between the number of light you have connected to the supply unit.

Darren
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No it's a single 1100ws power pack, which splits the power between the 2 outputs, I can't see the max on the website though, but I think it's 600.
 
There are two versions of the Elinchrom Ranger - RX Speed and RX Speed AS. I think the slower-recycling RX is discontinued, but the RX Speed will dump 1100Ws into one head, whereas the AS version has the asymmetric split. I think that's right.

Don't underestimate the amount of power you will need to darken bright skies in daylight, especially using biggish softboxes and at longer working distances. Shooting in overcast conditions or waiting till the sun goes down a bit will make life a heck of a lot easier.

The other horsey member around these parts is Mark 'treeman' http://www.markbeaumont.co.uk/
 
HoppyUK said:
There are two versions of the Elinchrom Ranger - RX Speed and RX Speed AS. I think the slower-recycling RX is discontinued, but the RX Speed will dump 1100Ws into one head, whereas the AS version has the asymmetric split. I think that's right.

Don't underestimate the amount of power you will need to darken bright skies in daylight, especially using biggish softboxes and at longer working distances. Shooting in overcast conditions or waiting till the sun goes down a bit will make life a heck of a lot easier.

The other horsey member around these parts is Mark 'treeman' http://www.markbeaumont.co.uk/
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thank you for that Richard.. I have seen Marks stuff.... his work is stunning
 
I've always wondered about using flash around horses . Surely they get spooked by it , and I wouldn't want one kicking out at me .
 
Yes I have done it but found the original Safari to be limiting because of the fact that both heads are powered from same unit and there are cable length issues, all that said it did a very good job. The fact that the replacement is equivalent to double the power and is separate units means that many of the issues are negated. Yes I have played with the iLux battery powered lights as I was demonstrating them at the photography show for Photomart and they also overcome the issues. I have not purchased either as I am still evaluating some things and maybe my own solution lies in a different direction.

This was the first trial with the Lencarta Safari 1

Fine_Art_Equestrian_Portraits_Dorset.jpg


ike
 
Thanks Mike. It'll be interesting to see what you end up with.
 
Richard, your own review of th
mike weeks said:
Yes I have done it but found the original Safari to be limiting because of the fact that both heads are powered from same unit and there are cable length issues, all that said it did a very good job. The fact that the replacement is equivalent to double the power and is separate units means that many of the issues are negated. Yes I have played with the iLux battery powered lights as I was demonstrating them at the photography show for Photomart and they also overcome the issues. I have not purchased either as I am still evaluating some things and maybe my own solution lies in a different direction.

This was the first trial with the Lencarta Safari 1



ike
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And that basically is why we have gone with a single head to each unit with the Safari 2. The workaround with the previous model was to use two units, which most of our pro customers did, but the current solution is more elegant, and cheaper too.
Apart from convenience, size and cost savings, there are practical and H&S benefits too because there are now no trailing cables for people to trip over, and no resistive losses caused by extension cables.
 
HoppyUK said:
?
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Ahh... I was going to point out that in your own review of the Ranger, a couple of years ago, you said that there were 3 flavours of it.
I then thought better of it but forgot to delete what I had started to write when I made my last post:)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Ahh... I was going to point out that in your own review of the Ranger, a couple of years ago, you said that there were 3 flavours of it.
I then thought better of it but forgot to delete what I had started to write when I made my last post:)
Click to expand...

Easily done :)

There certainly were three versions of the Ranger but I think only two now, as I said above.
 
HoppyUK said:
There certainly were three versions of the Ranger but I think only two now, as I said above.
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There appears to be only one version available now, the 'Speed AS' version - this is the only model mentioned on Elinchrom's website and the only one that's in stock at The Flash Centre.

I'd hope it was because they're going to release a long overdue modernised reincarnation of the big Ranger series, but it probably just means that they're going to stick with it's baby brother, the Quadra, which would be a shame IMHO.

Not that I'm likely to buy a new model because my big ol' Ranger is still working flawlessly since I bought it 7 years ago (before the Quadra was released).
 
HoppyUK said:
There are two versions of the Elinchrom Ranger - RX Speed and RX Speed AS. I think the slower-recycling RX is discontinued, but the RX Speed will dump 1100Ws into one head, whereas the AS version has the asymmetric split. I think that's right.

Don't underestimate the amount of power you will need to darken bright skies in daylight, especially using biggish softboxes and at longer working distances. Shooting in overcast conditions or waiting till the sun goes down a bit will make life a heck of a lot easier.

The other horsey member around these parts is Mark 'treeman' http://www.markbeaumont.co.uk/
Click to expand...

the idea is to underexpose in camera and let the flash do it work.
 
TonyHall said:
There appears to be only one version available now, the 'Speed AS' version - this is the only model mentioned on Elinchrom's website and the only one that's in stock at The Flash Centre.

I'd hope it was because they're going to release a long overdue modernised reincarnation of the big Ranger series, but it probably just means that they're going to stick with it's baby brother, the Quadra, which would be a shame IMHO.

Not that I'm likely to buy a new model because my big ol' Ranger is still working flawlessly since I bought it 7 years ago (before the Quadra was released).
Click to expand...

Could well be. In which case, Phil was right all along :)
 
HoppyUK said:
Could well be. In which case, Phil was right all along :)
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Not really. I could very well be misreading things, but Darren said...
Manc Man said:
Does this mean that it splits the power between the number of light you have connected to the supply unit.
Click to expand...
Which is correct, but Phil replied...
Phil V said:
No it's a single 1100ws power pack, which splits the power between the 2 outputs, I can't see the max on the website though, but I think it's 600.
Click to expand...
Which is almost right. It has 1100Ws total output. So...
One light = 1100Ws output.
Two lights = 1100Ws split between the two strobes.
Split 1:1 ratio with standard 'Speed' pack, or
Split 2:1 ratio with the 'Speed AS' pack, which works out at 733Ws (66%) from socket 'A', and 366Ws (33%) from socket 'B'.​

As I say, I may have misread everything (the OP was talking about using 2 lights) and we're all correct! :)

All this is apparently immaterial to the OP so please accept my grovelling apologies for dragging this thread off topic a wee tad.
 
TonyHall said:
Not really. I could very well be misreading things, but Darren said...

Which is correct, but Phil replied...

Which is almost right. It has 1100Ws total output. So...
One light = 1100Ws output.
Two lights = 1100Ws split between the two strobes.
Split 1:1 ratio with standard 'Speed' pack, or
Split 2:1 ratio with the 'Speed AS' pack, which works out at 733Ws (66%) from socket 'A', and 366Ws (33%) from socket 'B'.​

As I say, I may have misread everything (the OP was talking about using 2 lights) and we're all correct! :)

All this is apparently immaterial to the OP so please accept my grovelling apologies for dragging this thread off topic a wee tad.
Click to expand...

cheers Tony.. has been very interesting....
I have always kept away from this type of lighting............. I now know why. :-)
 
Manc Man said:
cheers Tony.. has been very interesting....
I have always kept away from this type of lighting............. I now know why. :)
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It isn't really complicated, you just have to read the specs carefully, and understand what is being said - or in some cases, what is NOT being said.
 
Garry Edwards said:
It isn't really complicated, you just have to read the specs carefully, and understand what is being said - or in some cases, what is NOT being said.
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That's the tricky thing, why do manufacturers baffle us with loads of info we don't need and miss out the important stuff.
 
Unfortunately the way the Lencarta Safari 2 is being sold, is in my opinion, misleading, it can only ever put a maximum of 600w/s through one head, whereas the Ranger can put 1100W/s through one head.

Darren, If you can choose what time of day to shoot, then any of the portable 600w/s packs will be fine, however if you want to start using large modifiers and in the middle of a sunny day, you will start to run into problems.

I've found the recycle time to be of great importance with horses, it's always the second after you take the first shot that the the shot you want is there, and by the time your flash is back up to power, the moment has gone.

FWIW, I use Profoto 1200 W/s packs generally on half power to give as fast a recycle as possible, but if I have to shoot in midday sun they're on full power (but I do use large modifiers which cuts light output too).

Best of luck with it ;-)
 
treeman said:
Unfortunately the way the Lencarta Safari 2 is being sold, is in my opinion, misleading, it can only ever put a maximum of 600w/s through one head, whereas the Ranger can put 1100W/s through one head.

Darren, If you can choose what time of day to shoot, then any of the portable 600w/s packs will be fine, however if you want to start using large modifiers and in the middle of a sunny day, you will start to run into problems.

I've found the recycle time to be of great importance with horses, it's always the second after you take the first shot that the the shot you want is there, and by the time your flash is back up to power, the moment has gone.

FWIW, I use Profoto 1200 W/s packs generally on half power to give as fast a recycle as possible, but if I have to shoot in midday sun they're on full power (but I do use large modifiers which cuts light output too).

Best of luck with it ;-)
Click to expand...

thank you Mark..

Love your work....
 
okay, thanks :)
 
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