"Lost" - Definate Spoilers!! BEWARE

Marcel said:
How about religion. God / The devil. Could be?
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Could very well be, but it will IMO still be routed squarly in the scientific remit. For example, let's pretend Jacob is the biblical one. To explain it with science, you could argue that humanity in the future sent Jacob back to "create" a religion or a following, to give humanity a sense of direction and hope. Again the bible could be a book written to describe the amazing power of god, who in essence could still simply be an all powerful alien :D

Gary.
 
Are they going to make another season ?? from what Ive heard, 5th is the last one...
 
theres a 6th season, and its the last one apparently.

ive just watched the last ep of season 6, and to be honest, i was practically crying the whole way through!! it was marvelouslly done, and really did keep me on the edge of my seat the whole way through...

Im a huuuuuge fan, but for some reason, i feel slightly disappointed by any of the theories that i have heard... in my mind, somehow, if the end can be predicted then its just not good enough!! :P i have high hopes for the last series, and if my mind isnt almost in meltdown when the end comes around i will feel cheated!

its -got- to be more than just "aliens" or the "fight between good and evil".... because those are the types of theories that have been around since season two, and i refuse to have gone through all that emotional turmoil for it to be that simple. :D

i <3 lost.

too much.
 
2 words

Head
Screwed

that is all. great telly though
 
How long have we got to wait for the next series.
Can someone tell me what Jacob whispered as he was dying, I didn't quite catch it. :(
 
nilagin said:
How long have we got to wait for the next series.
Can someone tell me what Jacob whispered as he was dying, I didn't quite catch it. :(
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"They're coming"....

I suspect in reference to the 70's losties, who I think did NOT blow the nuke, and are just going through a time flash.

Gary.
 
EdinburghGary said:
"They're coming"....

I suspect in reference to the 70's losties, who I think did NOT blow the nuke, and are just going through a time flash.

Gary.
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Hahaha, me and Gaz have had a good lost convo in the IRC and seems we have a difference in opinions on what its all about. So the words "bet", "£20" and "you're on" go spouted around, so roll on the next series to explain all and win me £20 :D
 
EdinburghGary said:
who I think did NOT blow the nuke, and are just going through a time flash.

Gary.
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BUT... they must have blown the nuke.... they cant travel through time without some sort of trigger.... which was initially ben turning the big wheel, which was an anomaly that locke stopped....

they cant just "flash" through time without some sort of trigger...

however, having said that, jacobs death could have caused some sort of a time spasm.

rargh.
 
amoynoodle said:
BUT... they must have blown the nuke.... they cant travel through time without some sort of trigger.... which was initially ben turning the big wheel, which was an anomaly that locke stopped....

they cant just "flash" through time without some sort of trigger...

however, having said that, jacobs death could have caused some sort of a time spasm.

rargh.
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Well,
Was the "drilling" not about to cause the incident, nuke or not? And if the drilling was about to release that energy, perhaps it created the time travel phenomenon?

Gary.
 
Just watched it, and then saw your username comment thing, so had to find this thread.
You've written a lot, and after nearly 2 hours watching it, I can't read all that lol.
I don't think that "fake Locke" is the smoke though. Maybe it's the dead Locke's body that's the fake?

What did Jacob say? I can't make it out... "they're coming"?
 
cyclone said:
Just watched it, and then saw your username comment thing, so had to find this thread.
You've written a lot, and after nearly 2 hours watching it, I can't read all that lol.
I don't think that "fake Locke" is the smoke though. Maybe it's the dead Locke's body that's the fake?

What did Jacob say? I can't make it out... "they're coming"?
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Yup thats what he said. And Smokey is fake locke :D Has to be...have a think about it when your brain settles :)
 
I'll probably watch it again, and read your thoughts in between.
Gluten for punishment you see.
 
cyclone said:
I don't think that "fake Locke" is the smoke though. Maybe it's the dead Locke's body that's the fake?
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the fake locke is definately the alive one... he is clearly Jacob's enemy, from the beginning of the episode -the guy wearing black. Listen carefully to what is said at the beginning and the end about the "loop hole"...

im not sure how people are convinced that fake locke is the black smoke though.... :/

i reckon fake locke is probs how other dead people (i.e. jack's & locke's dads) have been appearing on the island though, seeing as this guy in black clearly has shape-shifting abilities!!! :D
 
Yes, he is Jacob's enemy from the start of the ep.
It was interesting that although he couldn't kill Jacob, it was him that kicked Jacob's just about alive body into the fire...
If it is the smoke, why would it be manipulating Ben, when it was Ben who had control over it in the first place? (security system)
 
EdinburghGary said:
Yup thats what he said. And Smokey is fake locke :D Has to be...have a think about it when your brain settles :)
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out of interest, why do you think that the black smoke is the guy in black? because i cant get my head around why you are so convinced - weve had no direct reference to this, have we?
 
hmmm ive been thinking about this all day...the smoke isnt fake locke, but fake locke could well be the appearing to people as people dead dude dude, he cant kill jacob so he has to get someone to do it for him, he could have appeared as dead alex and told ben to do what locke says, knowing hes fake locke...clearly he can only appear as dead folk, my guess is then that hes a ghost, as is jacob...Richard is clearly someone much much older fro, the time with the big statue, the others being some form of sect....

as for the guys in the past, yes, it was flaming obvious the last thing we would see would be the bomb going off, i liked the way they went with the lost logo in the white rather than the usual black, but thats diverging, i think that they will end up in the present again, but im not sure how...

fantastic tv though, ive really enjoyed it, i hope that the final series gives us the answers and gives us a satisfying conclusion
 
amoynoodle said:
the fake locke is definately the alive one... he is clearly Jacob's enemy, from the beginning of the episode -the guy wearing black. Listen carefully to what is said at the beginning and the end about the "loop hole"...
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Locke is dead. Ben killed him. Both Ben and Locke were conned by Smokie, who pretended to be Jacob and various other people, to manipulate them. Smokie was BEN'S daughter in the underground temple, and I strongly suspect is the "new" Locke. All in my opinion. Its obvious that dead Locke, is the real Locke though (and he is still dead). Eloise INSISTED that the body be taken back, and we know that she wants to protect the island and Jacob WHATEVER the cost (she sent her son back in time knowing he would die). The reason she insisted that Locke's body be sent back, was to prove to Richard that the other Locke was NOT the leader, and was an imposter.

Remember, Richard and the others have always insisted on dead comrades bodies being cremated. They DO NOT let any dead body remain, and I wonder if this is due to Smokie being able to "replicate" them.


amoynoodle said:
im not sure how people are convinced that fake locke is the black smoke though.... :/
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I can't think of any other explanation for Smokey. If it is capable of "replaying someones life to them", surely it is powerful enough to display any equally impressive tricks.

Gary.
 
cyclone said:
Yes, he is Jacob's enemy from the start of the ep.
It was interesting that although he couldn't kill Jacob, it was him that kicked Jacob's just about alive body into the fire...
If it is the smoke, why would it be manipulating Ben, when it was Ben who had control over it in the first place? (security system)
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Ben had NO control over Smokey. He only knew how to summon it. He has said several times that he does not control it, and it became very clear the night he went into the temple and was confronted by his dead daughter, that he was actually clueless as to what Smokey is.

The reason Smokey manipulated Ben? He knew Ben was a nutter, an emotional and very envious person. He also knew that by playing Locke off Ben, that it would send Ben loopy. It is this manipulation, which Smokey (or fake Locke) blamed on Jacob, which caused Ben to kill him.

Gary.
 
amoynoodle said:
out of interest, why do you think that the black smoke is the guy in black? because i cant get my head around why you are so convinced - weve had no direct reference to this, have we?
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Well,

We know that the guy in BLACK SHIRT is the fake Locke, for sure. It was confirmed just before Jacobs death. Jacob said to fake Locke, you found your Loophole. Ben then asked if they knew one another, and I think fake Locke replied, "in a manner of speaking".

So we know that BLACK SHIRT guy can play dead people. Link that with BEN'S dead daughter, appearing RIGHT after smokey judged Ben...and also link it with all the other funny sightings in the jungle, a lot of the time after the "Whispers" which often happened when Smokey was about.

I am convinced that Smokey, Black Shirt, Dead Locke, and Dead Everyone Else who keeps appearing on the island, is the same entity, out to do one thing. Prove to Jacob that humanity cannot be trusted, and should be destroyed.

Maybe I am loopy :D

Gary.
 
lol no, locke is the black shirt dude from the beginning of the episode, but hes not the smoke monster, thats a different thing again, black shirt can only appear as dead people. Dont forget ben was 'changed' in one of the islands little cubbyholes when Syed shot him..
 
matty said:
lol no, locke is the black shirt dude from the beginning of the episode, but hes not the smoke monster, thats a different thing again, black shirt can only appear as dead people. Dont forget ben was 'changed' in one of the islands little cubbyholes when Syed shot him..
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I can't counter argue that point, Smokey may be a completely different entity. I believe them to be one and the same, not sure why but it feels like it fits. It could be a weapon of some sort I guess, which both Jacob and Black Shirt control...

Gary.
 
EdinburghGary said:
So we know that BLACK SHIRT guy can play dead people. Link that with BEN'S dead daughter, appearing RIGHT after smokey judged Ben..

Gary.
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i completely agree with you here, and i agree that the whispers in the jungle occurred when there was a dead person around or when the smokey came around...

but... i dont know, for some reason it just doesnt seem to sit right for me... at the beginning of the episode, when the black rock is on the horizon, it is clear that the statue is on the beach, and we are therefore led to believe that there is already a huge temple present in the island... therefore it -seems- like there is already some sort of higher being on the island that has been there for a while... i.e. both the temple and the statue seem to be from an era far preceeding the appearance of both jacob and his enemy.

having said this, it is clear that age doesnt really mean much on the island..... i can see how people might think that black shirt and smokey are the same entity, but im not totally convinced just yet!! :P

theres got to be more than what we already know too... i dont believe for a second that the whole of the lost phenomenon can be attributed to these two figures, one of which is kapoof already!!
 
Hahaha, its amazing how many theories can come from a tv show, and yet after 5 series, we are all still clueless.
I have my theory, and Gary knows what it is :D

I believe that the Smoke "Monster" is also the the dude from the begining with Jacob. I also believe that he can change into the dead people as has already been discussed. Why do people find it hard to believe that he is the smoke monster, yet think its ok for him to take the form of dead people :lol:

My theory is that its all angels and demons, do i go on.......or do i let you lot suffer my lazyness..... lazyness wins :lol:
 
MJ Stebbings said:
Hahaha, its amazing how many theories can come from a tv show, and yet after 5 series, we are all still clueless.
I have my theory, and Gary knows what it is :D

I believe that the Smoke "Monster" is also the the dude from the begining with Jacob. I also believe that he can change into the dead people as has already been discussed. Why do people find it hard to believe that he is the smoke monster, yet think its ok for him to take the form of dead people :lol:

My theory is that its all angels and demons, do i go on.......or do i let you lot suffer my lazyness..... lazyness wins :lol:
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Our theories I believe are the same...except you think Gods, and I think Aliens, who are believed to be Gods due to their power.

:D
 
EdinburghGary said:
Our theories I believe are the same...except you think Gods, and I think Aliens, who are believed to be Gods due to their power.

:D
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Not the same, but similar, and of course we are right and everyone else wrong! Haha.

But aliens, you have seen the star trek movie too many times :lol: ;)
Its totally a biblical theory ;)
 
MJ Stebbings said:
Not the same, but similar, and of course we are right and everyone else wrong! Haha.

But aliens, you have seen the star trek movie too many times :lol: ;)
Its totally a biblical theory ;)
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Well I base me Science Fiction belief on the following...

JJ Abrams has directed / produced or had / will have huge involvement with the following franchises:

Star Trek
Fringe
The Dark Tower
Alias
Armageddon

The one thing, they are all grounded in the realms of Science Fiction. To therefore use religion to tie up the loose ends, would not in my opinion, fit in with his track record.

Cough up already, I take cheque, bank transfer or hard dirty cash :D

Gary.
 
Ahhhh, its a curve ball though, dont you see it ;)
Its still a sci-fi series, even if the "loose ends" are tied up by a religious theory.
 
You're both discounting the Egyptian connection? There's that Egyptian temple where the bomb was and where the smoke monster lives, and that huge statue looks like Anubis - an Egyptian god with the body of a man and the head of a dog. ;)
 
CT said:
You're both discounting the Egyptian connection? There's that Egyptian temple where the bomb was and where the smoke monster lives, and that huge statue looks like Anubis - an Egyptian god with the body of a man and the head of a dog. ;)
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I think it's a crocodile head, and Tawaret, not Anubis (Remember 4 toes ;) Crocs have 4 toes on hind legs, dogs have 5 on all paws). And no, we both spoke at length about that. What we couldnt agree on, the origin of the Egyptians. I argued that they would indeed be "gods" if they had either come from another world all those years ago (think Stargate), or if they were the remains of a much more sophisticated race of humans, who have evolved much further than the current bunch (ie, the losties). Another theory, the Egyptians travelled back from the future, waaaaaaaaaaaay back in time, to start building towards fixing something that will eventually destroy the world.

I think both those theories are as plausible as Aliens, however, my argument is, to simply say "They are powerful because they are gods" is wrong. The power will be grounded in science fiction. If they are gods, it will be as a result of people praising them for this "magical power", which could be down to any number of scientific reasons! :D

Gary.
 
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LOL. What is such a big deal about the Oceanic 6 that that Jacob went to such great lengths to get them back to the Island? How about they are all re-incarnations of people from an earlier time (Egyptian maybe) and that their presence is required at a precise point in time to vanquish Jacob's Nemesis.... his final words "They're coming"

Also.. remember Jacob (I think it was actually Jacob's mate) testing the young Locke for special powers and going away disappointed? Locke is now dead and presumably has just been a pawn in a bigger game or conflict. The remark - "Someday I'll find a loophole" (to kill you) indicates a conflict being played out by a strict set of rules. :D
 
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CT said:
LOL. What is such a big deal about the Oceanic 6 that that Jacob went to such great lengths to get them back to the Island? How about they are all re-incarnations of people from an earlier time (Egyptian maybe) and that their presence is required at a precise point in time to vanquish Jacob's Nemesis.... his final words "They're coming"

Also.. remember Jacob (I think it was actually Jacob's mate) testing the young Locke for special powers and going away disappointed? Locke is now dead and presumably has just been a pawn in a bigger game or conflict. The remark - "Someday I'll find a loophole" (to kill you) indicates a conflict being played out by a strict set of rules. :D
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Yup there are definitely strict rules. I suspect the 6 are required, as Jacob's move has to be one which "shows the best of Humanity". Perhaps people who have been bad, but can change. Or people who will sacrifice all, for the love of others.

I ultimately think Hurley will be "The Candidate", and he will be sacrificed to ensure the winner of said game, is Jacob (he can still win, even though he is dead - his rival simply has to be proven wrong). Remember the conversation at the beginning.

They are clearly arguing over the behaviour of humans. Why is it important, I don't know. It is this question that makes me think Aliens, I suspect Aliens want to either keep us in check at the very least, (Jacob), or destroy us before we are technilogically advanced enough to risk other worlds due to our "unstable" human emotions (BLack shirt).

The convo:

BLACK SHIRT:
Still trying to prove me wrong, aren’t you?

JACOB:
You are wrong.

BLACK SHIRT:
Am I? They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.

JACOB:
It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress.


Sounds like Jacob is saying, let them be. They are simply growing as a race, and are going in the right direction. Black shirt has no such feelings, and sees us as a destructive who should NOT be trusted.

Here is another theory.

Jacob and Black Shirt are from another world, thousands of years in the future. We KNOW that Time Travel plays a BIG part.

Perhaps in this future, Humanity has learned space travel / whatever other scary powerful technology, and has waged war with Jacob and Black Shirts world. Perhaps in an effort to stop this war, or at least *win it*, they have come back in time, and are manipulating events to either gain the other hand, or change the course of humanity to ensure we do not get to the level where we can pose a threat.

Who knows, it is AWESOME fun theorising though :D

Gary.
 
Well if Jacob and his foe are both shape shifters or morphers at least it clears up the question of the polar bear. :lol:

The only other series which gripped me quite like Lost was The Sopranos..... absolutely superb TV and great casting in the same way. I just hope they bring Lost to a better conclusion than they did with that.
 
CT said:
Well if Jacob and his foe are both shape shifters or morphers at least it clears up the question of the polar bear. :lol:

The only other series which gripped me quite like Lost was The Sopranos..... absolutely superb TV and great casting in the same way. I just hope they bring Lost to a better conclusion than they did with that.
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Sssssh :D On season 2 of Sopranos.

The Polar Bear was featured in the comic that Walt was reading. In the comic, the story is about a friendly alien who crash lands on earth, and is made to become hostile after he is attacked. He eventually detonates his ship in a self destruct move, killing himself to avoid recapture. First though, he sent a signal to other Aliens...it is left open from that point.

Gary.
 
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