Looking to go into Headshot photography professionally. Canon 5DS or Sony A7RII

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CharlKell

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Charles
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I have chosen these two cameras because of their high resolution, I’m a pixel peeper and love some good high res photos. I’ve been doing photography for years now in and out of education and am thinking of finally pursueing it professionally, in which case I’d want to go into headshots, as portraiture is what I’m good at.

These are the only two cameras in my budget at the moment, so I’m trying to decide on which one to go for.

Canon 5DS pros:
- I love canon interface/menu/controls etc.
- I love canon colours (I know Sony’s they can be changed in photoshop/Lightroom to match them)
- I have a 50mm f/1.8 stm already, so wouldn’t need to get a new lens.

Sony A7R II pros/cons:
- I dont love the menu/interface as much as canon’s, but am willing to sacrifice for the extras if you guys think they’re important:
- Eye tracking autofocus.
- Better ISO Performance, for if I do other types of photography, such as Astrophotography, Portraits on location, wildlife.
- Sensor Shift IBIS, I love videography too, so this would be nice. Although photography will be the main use.
- I have an 85mm Viltrox 1.8 II Lens
- I have an adaptor for the canon lens, but it is very slow, so I would need to buy another lens. (I’ve been thinking of a 24-70 2.8 for either cameras in the future anyway)

Any advice would be amazing!

My budget is about £900 for camera and lens, that’s why I wanted to just use the lenses I have.
I also have to consider a flash, soft box and stand..
 
CharlKell said:
I have chosen these two cameras because of their high resolution, I’m a pixel peeper and love some good high res photos. I’ve been doing photography for years now in and out of education and am thinking of finally pursueing it professionally, in which case I’d want to go into headshots, as portraiture is what I’m good at.

These are the only two cameras in my budget at the moment, so I’m trying to decide on which one to go for.

Canon 5DS pros:
- I love canon interface/menu/controls etc.
- I love canon colours (I know Sony’s they can be changed in photoshop/Lightroom to match them)
- I have a 50mm f/1.8 stm already, so wouldn’t need to get a new lens.

Sony A7R II pros/cons:
- I dont love the menu/interface as much as canon’s, but am willing to sacrifice for the extras if you guys think they’re important:
- Eye tracking autofocus.
- Better ISO Performance, for if I do other types of photography, such as Astrophotography, Portraits on location, wildlife.
- Sensor Shift IBIS, I love videography too, so this would be nice. Although photography will be the main use.
- I have an 85mm Viltrox 1.8 II Lens
- I have an adaptor for the canon lens, but it is very slow, so I would need to buy another lens. (I’ve been thinking of a 24-70 2.8 for either cameras in the future anyway)

Any advice would be amazing!

My budget is about £900 for camera and lens, that’s why I wanted to just use the lenses I have.
I also have to consider a flash, soft box and stand..
Click to expand...
website: www.ckphotosvideos.com
If anyone is interested
 
To add I've shot portraits with M4/3, Canon 5D MK2, Sony A7R2, Fuji XT2 and Nikon D750.

All have produced sharp images which have been loved by the sitter. (I think my dogs liked them, they both licked me afterwards) :)
 
To add something else......................

Some of those portraits I think are very good.

Try to ensure the eyes are in focus (a couple of your images are slightly off).

Not a criticism, just an observation.

You can tell me to go jump if you like :)
 
GreenNinja67 said:
To add something else......................

Some of those portraits I think are very good.

Try to ensure the eyes are in focus (a couple of your images are slightly off).

Not a criticism, just an observation.

You can tell me to go jump if you like :)
Click to expand...
Oh no, I appreciate the criticism. I haven’t shot portraits in years to be honest, they’re all so old and I really need to get back into it. I’m trying to must up the courage to dive into the passion as a profession - and re-find my passion a bit..
 
I wish you all the best mate.

I'm sure better portrait togs than me will be along soon with more (if not better) advice.

We have some cracking togs on here.

@Phil V any thoughts?
 
I don’t know how to answer this in a helpful way.

But my first thought is that I can’t think of anything less important than the camera resolution.

Any old camera will do the job, what’s more important IRO portraiture is the connection to the subject (which you appear to have), and for going into business it’s a strong marketing plan.

I’m presuming if you are looking for a camera and a single lens that you’ve got a lens in mind and that you already have some other gear, lighting etc.

EDIT: I clearly missed the lens detail, I have to say - as a hobbyist grandad I went out last night to photograph my latest grandson and took a 50mm, 85mm and 135mm and a reflector.

I accept that was overkill as I shot everything on the 135 f2 (and only used the reflector as a sunshade), but with your budget I wouldn't be pixel peeping to find the 'best' sensor, I'd be looking for at least one other lens and much longer than 50mm on FF. So, something like the 80d and an 85mm or a 6d and 135
 
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I'd have thought, approaching it as a pro, a more suitable lens might be advisable, ie for FF 85 to 105mm?
 
5ds r > 5ds. Better sharpness. They are fine at low iso but it just so happens that mirrorless are a bit better keeping things in sharp focus at wider apertures. That's probably one area where you really want want. So Sony or canon R5 probably hardly matters.

Lens choices are pretty important here and with bodies like that you absolutely cant just throw in any plastic fantastic banger or even a zoom lens and expect actual 8k resolution wide open, let alone covering a bit of variety. Sigma art collection is a pretty safe bet for any system now. 135mm and 50mm are great. Can't wait to get the 85mm too.
 
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CharlKell said:
So @lindsay @Phil V , given I have a Sony Viltrox 85mm 1.8, getting a Sony body would be wise
Click to expand...
Or sell the Sony lens.
Consider yourself to be starting from scratch.

IMHO your budget wouldn’t touch the sides of what I’d be wanting, which is why I really wouldn’t spend tons on a ‘good’ body, because the body you really want is an R5. But the pictures you want to make owe more to the lens and / or the lighting than to a body.

Having shot portraits with an R6 there’s no way I’d go back to a dslr. Just a shame this tech (eye focus) wasn’t available when I was shooting for money. And the 20Mpix is absolutely fine to deliver high quality portraits.

Bluntly if I had what you have and more than double your budget, the choice would be just an R5 and the 50mm or an R6 and RF135? It’s a no brainer you need beautiful lenses to make beautiful images.

IMG_6710.jpeg
 
I would encourage you to listen to the seasoned pro's ike Phil, I'm just a rank amateur, so my lens suggestion comes from received wisdom rather than experience. I really think you should get loads of practice before trying to sell the product, developing your technique but also your people skills as necessary. Plus business skills if you want to go pro as that's 90% of the work.
 
Phil V said:
R6 and RF135?
Click to expand...
R6 is fine choice for portrait work minor niggles aside. But why throw money away on plastic fantastic rf lens when sigma version is by all accounts sharper at 8k and for R6 the old ef f2l would suffice just fine, leaving you plenty of cash for a bag with 85mm, 40/50mm art and probably even some form of 70-200 with cash to spare.
No reason not consider Sony a7iv, Panasonic s5ii either...
 
LongLensPhotography said:
R6 is fine choice for portrait work minor niggles aside. But why throw money away on plastic fantastic rf lens when sigma version is by all accounts sharper at 8k and for R6 the old ef f2l would suffice just fine, leaving you plenty of cash for a bag with 85mm, 40/50mm art and probably even some form of 70-200 with cash to spare.
No reason not consider Sony a7iv, Panasonic s5ii either...
Click to expand...
The above photo is shot on the ef 135. But if I was starting from scratch I’d like to give up the adaptor, for the convenience:)
 
Unless someone bought it off me on FB or Gumtree for £230 or so, I can only sell my 85mm Viltrox for £150, then the Canon lenses I have (50mm 1.8 and 24-105mm 3.5-5.6) for about £150 together too, so I’d have about £1000 to spend on a body and lens plus thinking of a flash, diffuser and stand.

I’m leaning more towards Sony mirrorless atm ‘cause of the IBIS for if I choose to do videography at any point, ‘cause the Canon cameras with that are expensive af.
Plus the Eye tracking Autofocus is useful, especially for portraiture, which canon cameras don’t particularly have, unless I go expensive or non-full frame sensor.

I’m very bad at deciding these things..
I could go for the Eos RP for now, but for the same price as the Sony A7RII, which gives me way more mp, and I already have a sharp 85mm lens for it, and it has ibis I might as well go Sony.. but I find canon more comfortable, but “on paper” (I have to say) Budget-wise Sony comes out on top for full frame+ibis+eye tracking
 
I've no idea why you want to go for such high resolution cameras for the head shot market.

If you are talking Canon on a lowish budget, I'd go for a 5DIII (or MkIV if you can stretch) with either a Sigma 24-105/4 or a Canon 70-200/4 IS MkI depending on your preferred flavour.

I tend to shoot at around the 100mm mark so would usually go for the Sigma.

Headshots are normally shot at f8 or so, so wide aperture primes are a waste of capacity and money.

They are also probably the smallest images in terms of end use that any company is ever going to want.

Unless they are shooting a Rankin-like NHS campagned - but then you'd want a serious MF camera.

By the way, camera and lens are going to be less than 50% of your set up costs.

A pair of decent lights (Ad200's minimum), an easy set up Octa (Lastolite Ezybox or Octabrolly),
a reflector, stands for those, a Black/White or Grey/White background + support is going to cost around a grand.
Possibly £600-700 if you buy secondhand carefully.

That's why most decent headshot guys start at £125 absolutely minimum for a single person with one image (added extra available at a cost).

The thirty five quid merchants won't make it.
 
CharlKell said:
plus thinking of a flash, diffuser and stand.
Click to expand...
If you’d put this in the first post this thread would have been very different.

You want to shoot ‘high quality’ headshots and you’ve somehow convinced yourself that a high res camera is the solution to that, when in fact it’s down to high quality lighting.

As mark posted above, and I’d posted previously, any old camera is good enough. (A new eye tracking mirrorless would be great - but we managed to shoot photos without for a century). The ‘quality’ of your images will stand or fall on the quality of your lighting not the number of pixels on your sensor.

A couple of cheap mains studio heads if you’re on a budget at a minimum, AD200’s are more convenient, AD300’s gets you modelling lights (though not v bright). A ‘flash and diffuser’ is bonkers.

But however you look at it - sell everything you have and accept that over half the budget needs to go on the ‘studio’ part of the equation.

Back in my first post I had the caveat:

Phil V said:
I’m presuming if you are looking for a camera and a single lens that you’ve got a lens in mind and that you already have some other gear, lighting etc.
Click to expand...
 
CharlKell said:
I have chosen these two cameras because of their high resolution, I’m a pixel peeper and love some good high res photos. I’ve been doing photography for years now in and out of education and am thinking of finally pursueing it professionally, in which case I’d want to go into headshots, as portraiture is what I’m good at.

These are the only two cameras in my budget at the moment, so I’m trying to decide on which one to go for.

Canon 5DS pros:
- I love canon interface/menu/controls etc.
- I love canon colours (I know Sony’s they can be changed in photoshop/Lightroom to match them)
- I have a 50mm f/1.8 stm already, so wouldn’t need to get a new lens.

Sony A7R II pros/cons:
- I dont love the menu/interface as much as canon’s, but am willing to sacrifice for the extras if you guys think they’re important:
- Eye tracking autofocus.
- Better ISO Performance, for if I do other types of photography, such as Astrophotography, Portraits on location, wildlife.
- Sensor Shift IBIS, I love videography too, so this would be nice. Although photography will be the main use.
- I have an 85mm Viltrox 1.8 II Lens
- I have an adaptor for the canon lens, but it is very slow, so I would need to buy another lens. (I’ve been thinking of a 24-70 2.8 for either cameras in the future anyway)

Any advice would be amazing!

My budget is about £900 for camera and lens, that’s why I wanted to just use the lenses I have.
I also have to consider a flash, soft box and stand..
Click to expand...
I'm maybe just out of date here (and I am definitely out of date with detailed camera specs), but if I was setting up a headshot business. I would be looking at this differently. And I would have a much clearer focus on headshot/portrait photography. I would ignore my astrophotography and wildlife interests.

I would want two good condition, identical, s/h camera bodies (Canon D5 Mk IIIs, Nikon d600/610s/800s or something like that) and two decent flash heads (The AD300s that were mentioned look fine, but there lots of s/h lighting kit available). A couple of s/h lenses maybe 24-105 plus a 50mm, two light stands, two umbrellas (or softboxes, which tend to easier to use in small spaces) and a couple of reflectors.

When I used to do this sort of thing (decades ago), for corporate work the company would put a lot of time into preparing everyone to come to get their head shot done, even one off headshots were often done after someone had paid to get her hair done in preparation for the photograph, or/and taken time off work etc etc.

I wouldn't risk having a headshot session(s) set up, and on the day, dropping my "one" camera or one flash or one lens and breaking it, or it just suddenly malfunctioning for some reason, and have to tell the customer that we would need to reschedule the session.

Digital cameras seem to more reliable than the film cameras I used to use, but....
 
Phil V said:
If you’d put this in the first post this thread would have been very different.
Click to expand...
I did @Phil V but thank you for the advice :)
CharlKell said:
I also have to consider a flash, soft box and stand..
Click to expand...

When I said flash I mean like a good quality speed light so that I didn’t need to require mains, for if I did portraiture on location, and another reason I was looking for High Def is because I’m still unsure as to exactly what type of photography/videography I want to go into, so I was looking for a multipurpose one, let’s say, one that could last me years or even forever without needing an upgrade, which the A7RII looks like it would be, I’ve found someone selling theirs for £450, body, batteries, charger, box, etc.

On the other hand, @DemiLion Since you’re right on the f/8 for studio shots side, there is someone selling a Canon 5D3 with 24-70 f4 and 50 1.8 (although I have that already) for £900, which seems steep but I assume it isn’t if the camera is in good condition with a low shutter count, so I had considered that as that glass is good, and gives me a versatile focal length, but then I’d need a 85mm or above 100 for flatter profiles.

I was watching a YouTube video of someone who shoots headshots full time and uses a 24-70 f2.8, that’s why I was considering that lens.

But yeah, I appreciate the high resolution being irrelevant for headshots alone as they’re practically thumbnails on websites haha, it was just for other styles and uses of the camera.

Thank you all @Phil V @DemiLion @LongLensPhotography @lindsay @GreenNinja67 @myotis for the advice and information!
And for the advice on the lighting setups!!
I’ve got a lot to think about, definitely not going to rush into anything. It’s nice to get some help from professionals.

And yes @myotis I should know this to be honest, I also need to remember the rule of only purchasing something if you can afford to buy two or three of it (depending on the item of course, not everyone can buy two houses let alone a good setup (me))

Got lots of thinking/business researching to do.
 
you need redundancy. If a camera, a lens, light, or other bit of kit breaks, you need to be able to complete the shoot. Having to bail due to broken kit won't endear you to the company you're working for and because people talk to each other, your name will be mud.
 
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