Looking After Car Battery

[Al1944]

I drive very little these days - probably two or three miles to the shop and back three times a week. This doesn't do the battery much good so I wondered if it would be a good idea to charge the battery up over each weekend. If so, which type of charger would be good for this sort of job.

Thanks,
AL

 

[nilagin]

I drive very little these days - probably two or three miles to the shop and back three times a week. This doesn't do the battery much good so I wondered if it would be a good idea to charge the battery up over each weekend. If so, which type of charger would be good for this sort of job.

Thanks,
AL

I believe a trickle charge is what is needed, but I would be more concerned about your engine oil getting diluted due to the engine not really getting warmed up enough on each journey. I'd be inclined to give the car a longer run on at least one of your journeys, it would likely help recharge the battery too.

 

[Al1944]

Yes - I have been thinking of doing that. Thanks.

 

[MatBin]

With my bike which I don't use in the winter I take the battery off and trickle charge, there are special chargers that monitor and charge as required. My wife used her car very little and it caused a few problems, engine oil, sensors getting gummed up, battery not fully charged so certain electrical functions wouldn't work (the car's management system shut these off deliberately to save batter charge for more essential reasons). Dealer suggested we take it for a run at least once a week.

 

[Al1944]

Seems that's the way to go then.

Thanks,
AL

 

[srichards]

I have a car I don't use often on a smart trickle charger made by CTEK. It conditions the battery at the same time and alerts if there is an issue with it. I leave it connected all the time it's parked up in the garage.

Or do a longer run at the weekend to somewhere interesting?

 

[Suvv]

If you do decide to charge the battery check which type you need for your car / battery. Modern cars use different types of batteries and these need specialist chargers, I know that charging the battery on my car using any type of external charger is not recommended.

 

[Al1944]

Went out for an hour's drive this morning. Battery was reading 12.2 before I went and 12.6 after I left it for an hour after I got back, so it certainly seems the way to go. It also covers the other non battery bases, so I'll try to make this a regular thing - health permitting.

Thanks again all.

 

[Mr Perceptive]

Even with this extra drive regime I would change the oil/filter more often than recommended, possibly annually, or at least at half service intervals - work on the old premise Oils Cheap, Engines Aren't

 

[hunnymonster]

... your engine oil getting diluted due to the engine not really getting warmed ....

Diluted? Where does the adulterant come from?

Emulsified sure, black death sure...

The "cure" is simple though as Daniel says - a longer trip, at least half an hour.

 

[broc]

I would look at something like a ctek mxs 5.0 'smart' battery charger. Not cheap, but very good. I use one to keep the batteries in our motorhome topped up over the winter.

 

[F1.2]

I would advise a optimate charger https://www.optimate.co.uk/products/optimate-4

 

[jonbeeza]

Or failing that, @Al1944 could drive over to mine, and we could go for a drive around Wales, while I take photos out of the window. I hate driving at the best of times. AL's petrol tank would be empty, but my memory card and his battery would both be full.

 

[Nod]

Another vote for an Optimate type battery maintainer. I have a couple - a solar one which keeps a bike trickled even through winter and a mains powered one which I switch between vehicles, all of which have the necessary "fly" lead handy. I also have the little gizmo that tells you the charge and charging status of the battery and charger.

Diluted? Where does the adulterant come from?

Small quantities of fuel can pass the rings, especially when the mixture is enriched for starting. In normal use, the oil gets hot enough to drive the fuel out of the oil but multiple short trips can lead to the problem Neil described.

 

[F1.2]

Refured to as Bore wash

 

[wyx087]

Regularly taking unnecessary long drives isn't really good for the environment, your wallet or your time.

A "smart" battery conditioning charger is the way forward in terms of better for environment, your wallet and your time. Just hook it up overnight once a week.

With your amount of driving, an electric motor driven vehicle would be better. PHEV or full EV. Where the EV range covers vast majority of your daily miles. The 12v battery will get charged when you are using the car and there's no start-up strain on the 12v battery or cold engine problems. Best of all, you don't have to wait for the engine to warm up near end of your journey to get heating.

 

[nilagin]

Regularly taking unnecessary long drives isn't really good for the environment, your wallet or your time.

That is mostly wrong. As already explained, Short journeys lead to bore wash because of the enriched fuel whilst the engine is cold. This means fuel ends up in the oil. The lubrication qualities of the oil diminish alot quicker than the need for an annual oil change. You are looking at adding at least one more oil change per year.
Even if you are adding extra oil changes, you are still looking at the possibility of engine wear or components that rely on oil pressure and lubrication to work properly. All this will lead to poor fuel economy and also higher emissions. You'd be doing more harm to the environment and your wallet by not doing longer journeys. Just doubling the length of one or all of the journeys, will not only recharge the battery, but also keep the oil and engine in good condition and a few more miles won't impact on the environment that much especially compared to that from a worn "cold" engine.

 

[MatBin]

Regularly taking unnecessary long drives isn't really good for the environment, your wallet or your time.

A "smart" battery conditioning charger is the way forward in terms of better for environment, your wallet and your time. Just hook it up overnight once a week.

With your amount of driving, an electric motor driven vehicle would be better. PHEV or full EV. Where the EV range covers vast majority of your daily miles. The 12v battery will get charged when you are using the car and there's no start-up strain on the 12v battery or cold engine problems. Best of all, you don't have to wait for the engine to warm up near end of your journey to get heating.

ffs give it up. The answer to the world's problems is NOT everyone buy an EV, why do you have to make virtually every post an EV crusade.

 

[Nod]

I don't think he's advocating that everyone buys an EV but in this case, he's right - an EV would be the ideal option, although the purchase cost might be too high. 18 miles a week will be killing the OP's ICE vehicle, not to mention the environmental issues.

 

[wyx087]

That is mostly wrong. As already explained, Short journeys lead to bore wash because of the enriched fuel whilst the engine is cold. This means fuel ends up in the oil. The lubrication qualities of the oil diminish alot quicker than the need for an annual oil change. You are looking at adding at least one more oil change per year.
Even if you are adding extra oil changes, you are still looking at the possibility of engine wear or components that rely on oil pressure and lubrication to work properly. All this will lead to poor fuel economy and also higher emissions. You'd be doing more harm to the environment and your wallet by not doing longer journeys. Just doubling the length of one or all of the journeys, will not only recharge the battery, but also keep the oil and engine in good condition and a few more miles won't impact on the environment that much especially compared to that from a worn "cold" engine.

Are you saying unnecessarily double driving length of a journey will actually reduce the total amount of carbon emission compared to just driving as needed?
My understanding is that you work(ed?) in engine testing and trust what you've said, that warm cars produce less emission when measured. But we must look at things from overall total journey carbon emission point of view, not instantaneous emission.

So I don't believe what I've said is "mostly wrong", 2 out of 3 is certainly correct. Only wallet arguement is questionable.

Rest of your comment just points out how unsuitable the ICE is for a people who drive short distances.

 

[MatBin]

I don't think he's advocating that everyone buys an EV but in this case, he's right - an EV would be the ideal option

That's debatable. I have nothing against EV, especially for short journeys, I even tried to convince my wife we should buy one when she wanted/needed to change her car.
But, just buying an EV, even in AL's case might not be environmentally justifiable.
Is it appropriate to scrap a perfectly good ICE for an EV, will the overall impact of an EV purchase be less than keeping an ICE, there's just so many questions that need answering that a simple "you do X miles per week you need an PHEV/EV" comment is rubbish and some people keep on spouting it in an evangelical way.

 

[wyx087]

That's debatable. I have nothing against EV, especially for short journeys, I even tried to convince my wife we should buy one when she wanted/needed to change her car.
But, just buying an EV, even in AL's case might not be environmentally justifiable.
Is it appropriate to scrap a perfectly good ICE for an EV, will the overall impact of an EV purchase be less than keeping an ICE, there's just so many questions that need answering that a simple "you do X miles per week you need an PHEV/EV" comment is rubbish and some people keep on spouting it in an evangelical way.

It is unknown what will become of the current car, or the condition of the current car.

Again, no one has ever mentioned to switch cars immediently. It's just a minor suggestion on the side to plant the idea. Something to consider when the time comes. Same as your wife's car, EV is something to consider when she wants/needs to change a car.

 

[Al1944]

Just for the record my car is just under one year old. Quite fancy an electric car - it's on my Lottery win shopping list

 

[nilagin]

Are you saying unnecessarily double driving length of a journey will actually reduce the total amount of carbon emission compared to just driving as needed?
My understanding is that you work(ed?) in engine testing and trust what you've said, that warm cars produce less emission when measured. But we must look at things from overall total journey carbon emission point of view, not instantaneous emission.

So I don't believe what I've said is "mostly wrong", 2 out of 3 is certainly correct. Only wallet arguement is questionable.

Rest of your comment just points out how unsuitable the ICE is for a people who drive short distances.

You missed the point where I said that such small use will lead to engine wear and component malfunction, all of which not only increases fuel consumption but also increases emissions. The catalytic converter will never get to function properly which can ultimately also increase emissions.
Agreed that such short journeys are suitable for an EV. But that is assuming the OP can afford an EV even 2nd hand.

 

[wyx087]

You missed the point where I said that such small use will lead to engine wear and component malfunction, all of which not only increases fuel consumption but also increases emissions. The catalytic converter will never get to function properly which can ultimately also increase emissions..

So over 3+ years, using it in this way will produce more emissions than unnecessarily driving more miles IF and only IF there are componenet failures.

At minimum, even at constant non-optimum operation conditions, a product should last beyond warranty period. Because sounds like this use-case is something should have been taken into account by the engineers. Otherwise there will be lot more claims on warranty for engine failures failures.

Am I putting too much faith into car manufacturers?

But that is assuming the OP can afford an EV even 2nd hand.

No assumption required. New or like-new EV is currently selling for the same price as similarly spec'd ICE cars. The only reason 2nd hand are expensive because of supply and demand.
The idea of EV's are expensive is outdated.

 

[Al1944]

Agreed that such short journeys are suitable for an EV. But that is assuming the OP can afford an EV even 2nd hand.

Which I can't My car, bought new last year, cost £10,700.

 

[broc]

My wife bought a new 1.3 litre Nissan Qashqai N-Connecta for under £19k last September, show me which equivalent EV she could have bought for the same price?

 

[MatBin]

And so the slippery slope starts again ………………………………………………………...

 

[MatBin]

Which I can't My car, bought new last year, cost £10,700.

You obviously havent had the "deal" explained to you properly, of course you can afford a 2nd hand EV, everyone can .................................

 

[nilagin]

So over 3+ years, using it in this way will produce more emissions than unnecessarily driving more miles IF and only IF there are componenet failures.

At minimum, even at constant non-optimum operation conditions, a product should last beyond warranty period. Because sounds like this use-case is something should have been taken into account by the engineers. Otherwise there will be lot more claims on warranty for engine failures failures.

Am I putting too much faith into car manufacturers?


No assumption required. New or like-new EV is currently selling for the same price as similarly spec'd ICE cars. The only reason 2nd hand are expensive because of supply and demand.
The idea of EV's are expensive is outdated.

Well I can tell you that Ford do in fact test for such use, but it doesn't mean all manufacturers do. We call it The Granny test, basically the engine is started, run for several minutes, then switched off again, the cycle is repeated every 6hrs. Oil samples are taken periodically and at the end of the test and the engine is also stripped down and inspected at the end of the testing.

It isn't likely to cause a warranty failure in 3yrs, but it will still wear out components.
There is assumption involved, because you are assuming the OP can afford to change his car, even for 2nd hand let alone new.

 

[nilagin]

Which I can't My car, bought new last year, cost £10,700.

There's always this little beauty.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/c...veils-Ami-two-seat-electric-vehicle-city.html

 

[Al1944]

Interesting - but I would need a roof rack for the shopping

 

[nilagin]

Interesting - but I would need a roof rack for the shopping

I think you might need a roof rack just for a newspaper.

 

[Al1944]

My previous car, a 2009 1.6 petrol Ford Focus, was bought at one year old and sold last year. IIRC the mileage was 22000. I had it serviced by a Ford main dealer every other year and apart from a dead battery had no problems with it.

 

[sna]

I use CTEK chargers on my cars that do not get used that often, keeps the battery conditioned and they start first time, so have no complaints.

 

[nilagin]

I use CTEK chargers on my cars that do not get used that often, keeps the battery conditioned and they start first time, so have no complaints.

That seems to be the make of choice on the car forums I frequent and some of them tend to tuck their cars away for the winter, and even then lucky if they do a couple of thousand miles per year.

 

[wyx087]

My wife bought a new 1.3 litre Nissan Qashqai N-Connecta for under £19k last September, show me which equivalent EV she could have bought for the same price?

That car is a £24.5k car. Due low demand, we see it getting discounted. Come second hand, you may find it retains worse value than currently similarly priced EV's.
Unfortunately we have a shortage of supply for EV's, so we won't see much discount going on. For same asking price, you can get a MG ZS EV.
https://mg.co.uk/mg-zs-electric/

For directly comparable cars, look at how e-Golf compares to similarly spec'd Golf are very similar in price.
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/files/live/sites/vwuk/files/pdf/Brochures/golf-pricelist.pdf

Which I can't My car, bought new last year, cost £10,700.

If you can accept its looks, a used ~4 years old Leaf 30 kWh can be had for that price. Nice Golf sized car, very suitable for your journey type, 4 more years of main battery warrant left. Won't be a brand spanking new car though.
(disclaimer, not saying you should go out to change cars now, not saying you should scrap your 1 yr car, not saying you've bought a wrong car, etc. Only suggesting it was an option and there will be more options in years time, only pointing out the misconception that EV's are expensive is outdated)

It isn't likely to cause a warranty failure in 3yrs, but it will still wear out components.
There is assumption involved, because you are assuming the OP can afford to change his car, even for 2nd hand let alone new.

So only in the very specific case that if the car is kept for 10 years and only do 20k (which is true in this case), there will be a probability (component failure within that time) that driving less will do more environmental damage.
In that case, I still think telling people to drive unnecessarily is bad advice and only serve to cover inherent flaws with ICE cars.

There are EV's out there for every price point, from £3000 to very expensive. It can be cheaper if there are more and older used cars around. The assumption is not whether OP can afford to change right now, as I've said many times, I've never asked anyone to change their cars now. I'm only suggesting EV as an option to consider and correcting outdated misconceptions.

 

[broc]

That car is a £24.5k car. Due low demand, we see it getting discounted. Come second hand, you may find it retains worse value than currently similarly priced EV's.
Unfortunately we have a shortage of supply for EV's, so we won't see much discount going on. For same asking price, you can get a MG ZS EV.
https://mg.co.uk/mg-zs-electric/

For directly comparable cars, look at how e-Golf compares to similarly spec'd Golf are very similar in price.
https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/files/live/sites/vwuk/files/pdf/Brochures/golf-pricelist.pdf

Qashqai was 6th best selling car in UK 2019 and 3rd best selling car in the UK YTD 2020.......

https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/

A comparable MG would be 'from' £24.5k after Govt grant not the <£19k she paid & I wouldn't trust MG residuals 3-4 years out.

 

[nilagin]

In that case, I still think telling people to drive unnecessarily is bad advice and only serve to cover inherent flaws with ICE cars.

Heaven forbid that people should even entertain the idea of buying a car and then having the nerve to actually use it.

 

[wyx087]

Heaven forbid that people should even entertain the idea of buying a car and then having the nerve to actually use it outside regular parameters.

Fixed it for you

Telling people to drive unnecessarily feels like saying to an older gentleman who only use their smart phone for phone calls: "you must to set up Email and social media, because that's how smart phones are supposed to be used."

Or telling a Canon 1DX owner "you must use the high FPS continuous shooting mode and shoot sports, because that's how the camera is designed to be used."