London tower block on fire

I bet people living in high rise blocks are worried today. With escape scenarios going through their heads as they enter and exit their buildings.
 
KitsuneAndy said:
IApparently no integrated fire alarm. No sprinklers, flammable cladding.
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As per fire regs
Sprinklers are not fitted to the outside of buildings where the fire seems to have spread.

Fire alarms are also not required for communal areas but other things went wrong here and it too early to say what series of (probably numerous small) events led to this disaster.

Fires have happened in the blocks before and have not spread so why this time?
 
alfbranch said:
As per fire regs
Sprinklers are not fitted to the outside of buildings where the fire seems to have spread.

Fire alarms are also not required for communal areas but other things went wrong here and it too early to say what series of (probably numerous small) events led to this disaster.

Fires have happened in the blocks before and have not spread so why this time?
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With the fire alarm, its probably difficult. You don't want the building one set off every time someone burns the toast. People will ignore or disable them as a nuisance.

The flats are supposed to be isolated. So you should have hours before fire spreads between them. You don't want 400 people trying to exit a block, as fire fighters are trying to use the same stairs to enter the block. If theres an isolated file in a flat it's best if everybody stays in, firefighters nip up, and put out the fire. Avoids all sorts of panic, injuries from trampling etc.

The problem is the integrity of the isolation between the flats seems to have been compromised. By what is the main question. The new gas pipes? The new heating system? The cladding? All of the above? Did the contractors even understand the principals that should have made the building safe in a fire? Did they have proper fire doors between the stairwell, apartments that shut correctly etc.
 
This is going to turn into a class war, you can see it already, very uncomfortable times ahead for the Tories (and rightfully so), lots of ammo for Corbyn.

Won't bring anyone back or help the survivors though :(
 
I do agree but please don't think that I am using the horrific incident in London as a bridge to vent my thoughts with that image I put up, it is real facts that are having a direct impact on such incidents, it's not all just about operational crews, it's the behind the scenes teams too which have had an effect on the outcome of that incident such as fire protection/safety etc.
 
I believe labour were in government when the report on the safety on high rise buildings was needed after the last major high rise fire in 2009.
Why didn't labour act on it then?

Please don't use a terrible accident to peddle your political views
 
TCR4x4 said:
I believe labour were in government when the report on the safety on high rise buildings was needed after the last major high rise fire in 2009.
Why didn't labour act on it then?

Please don't use a terrible accident to peddle your political views
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Maybe if you had read my post instead of jumping on you're high horse...I clearly state that I'm not using this to peddle my political views as you clearly put it and I think you will find that the last major high rise fire was in fact 6th Apr 2010 FFS
 
Ruffy said:
Maybe if you had read my post instead of jumping on you're high horse...I clearly state that I'm not using this to peddle my political views as you clearly put it and I think you will find that the last major high rise fire was in fact 6th Apr 2010 FFS
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Still a Labour government.
Not that it matters.
 
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Ruffy said:
Maybe if you had read my post instead of jumping on you're high horse...I clearly state that I'm not using this to peddle my political views as you clearly put it and I think you will find that the last major high rise fire was in fact 6th Apr 2010 FFS
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You introduced the matter. :rolleyes:
 
You clearly were peddling your views, hence posting a rediculous graphic of "what the tories did". "Nothing else needs said"
Unnecessary and pathetic.
 
Knock it off the lot of you!

If you want to politicize this sad event and argue the toss then go and start a thread in the hot topics section and wave your willys about in there - leave this thread alone
 
some stories doing the rounds loads of immigrants and asylum seekers in this block with gas cannister stoves in their flats.
 
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Back on topic, so how many will now ignore the normal advice to stay in the flat and wait for the firefighters to get there. Those that survived appear to be those that ignored that and left the building quickly.
 
Mr Bump said:
some stories doing the rounds loads of immigrants and asylum seekers in this block with gas cannister stoves in their flats.
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No way anything like that would be known or even suspected at this point but those who spread these rumours know there are plenty of people who'd believe it. There's some vile stuff on the internet today.
 
I'm sure I heard on one of the news channels that an appliance caught fire and that was reported by the tenant who apparently went knocking on doors to raise the alarm once they realised it was out of control.

Can't for the life of me remember where I heard it so may well be just another rumour. However not surprised at all that there are people out there using is as a way string up the hornets nest by claiming fault lies with immigration. :shifty:
 
fabs said:
No way anything like that would be known or even suspected at this point but those who spread these rumours know there are plenty of people who'd believe it. There's some vile stuff on the internet today.
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oh am sure there i but the story i watched was from an actual flat dweller in the block.
they had reported it to the council.
 
Byker28i said:
Back on topic, so how many will now ignore the normal advice to stay in the flat and wait for the firefighters to get there. Those that survived appear to be those that ignored that and left the building quickly.
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That was the same with the Piper Alpher disaster those who stayed in the alocated safe area died when the whole compartment fell into the sea with them all inside.
 
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bass_junkie83 said:
I'm sure I heard on one of the news channels that an appliance caught fire and that was reported by the tenant who apparently went knocking on doors to raise the alarm once they realised it was out of control.

Can't for the life of me remember where I heard it so may well be just another rumour. However not surprised at all that there are people out there using is as a way string up the hornets nest by claiming fault lies with immigration. :shifty:
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Reported by one tennant on the 4th floor to several of the news channels, sky news were first with that story but everyone picked it up.
 
Byker28i said:
They rescued someone from the lower floors around midday!
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It was the chap seen waving from a window this morning, wasn't it? Amazing really.
That tower is still burning fiercely within.
 
Listening to BBC news 24 this morning and one of the reports someone said something about an explosion in one of the flats.

However I have only heard that the once and have not seen or heard it repeated on the BBC or elsewhere
 
I'm sure I heard on one of the news channels that an appliance caught fire and that was reported by the tenant who apparently went knocking on doors to raise the alarm once they realised it was out of control.
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We all know of at least one appliance that has a tendency to catch alight.

Not in any way saying it was the cause of this blaze, but does emphasise how important it is to get those dryers out of circulation
 
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shapeshifter said:
That was the same with the Piper Alpher disaster those who stayed in the alocated safe area died when the whole compartment fell into the sea with them all inside.
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Piper Alpha, and it would appear this incident too, involved circumstances that were not foreseen and the right response to an anticipated emergency turned out to be the wrong response to the events that occurred. On PA the safe area would have resisted a fire but did not resist an explosion, an explosion that occurred because bad decisions were made to continue production whilst making extensive alterations and upgrades to the platform.

With GT we'll need to await the investigation, but it's initially looking like the fire spread across the exterior surface of the building bypassed the internal fire compartments - this is going to result in significant changes in building design, building regulations, construction product standards, etc. The cause of the start of the fire needs to be investigated, how it spread from the origin to the exterior of the building, and the role the cladding played in the surface spread.

An awful lot of external wall insulation has been applied in the last decade or so to improve the thermal efficiency of housing stock. The overall fire safety of the building is the responsibility of the freeholder and the management organisation (I think I'm right in saying that by 2006 all local authorities in England had been pushed into transferring all of their housing stock to semi-independent management organisations), but there are several other organisations involved in the funding and installation of external wall insulation - and I've not seen any of their names mentioned yet in the media.
 
its wierd but it is looking like tha deed cladding caused the fire to spread, without the cladding the integrity of it should have been ok.
poor show really.
 
Mr Bump said:
its wierd but it is looking like tha deed cladding caused the fire to spread, without the cladding the integrity of it should have been ok.
poor show really.
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Indeed, and it has been reported this morning that the cladding used complied with the relative fire/building regulations. Assuming that is so then it merely begs the question "how come the relative regulations permit the use of such material". If there been no cladding I cannot see how that concrete tower block could have become such in inferno in the space of a few minutes.

There was a most disturbing late night listener's call to LBC last night. A man who was clearly very upset reported that his friend had died in the fire. His body has not been found, but at around 0130 on the morning of the fire, in a phone conversation to the person subsequently calling LBC, the victim (on floor 24) was said to be screaming and unable to leave because of the fire and that the floor was now too hot on which to stand. What terror there must have been.
 
arclight said:
Indeed, and it has been reported this morning that the cladding used complied with the relative fire/building regulations. Assuming that is so then it merely begs the question "how come the relative regulations permit the use of such material". If there been no cladding I cannot see how that concrete tower block could have become such in inferno in the space of a few minutes.
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Regulations are already in place, interpreting how they can be complied with like most legal requirements does leave a grey area. It's too early to say if they were actually compliant, I expect it will be 6 months before any comprehensive report is produced but I would expect the contractor to state that they were compliant regardless of the truth at such an early stage.

I can see a tightening down on acceptance criteria to meet the existing legislation on the back of this which imo is well overdue.
 
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