Local/town/small churches and photography

Carlh

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hi,

I pass a number of village/town churches on my way to and from work and I would love to pop into them, take some snaps.

So my question is:
Are churches open every day, from a particular time to a particular time?
If they are open, but unattended, would it be ok to take pictures, as long as they were not for professional usage?
If they are open and attended, i would of course, ask for permission.

I believe flashes are frowned upon, which isnt a problem for me as I will do long exposures or high-iso, depending on the situation.

Anyone have any experience in visiting churches in the UK?

Thanks :)
 
Hi Thay used to bee open allday. But due to vandalism alot are only open at certain times. Normaly I found it ok to take photos for your own use. Aslong as you respect The Alter and the fabric of the church. Some will allow flash depends on each church
 
thats great, i'll pop into one on my way home and see how it goes.

Cheers :)

I imagine dropping a coin or two into the church roof restoration fund would go a long way to smoothing your passage. ;)
 
In Norfolk, if the church isn't open there's usually a sign indicating which nearby house has a key and can let you in. But, I tend to use the white sandwich board out front saying "Open Church Today" as a guide :D

There are a variety of church preservation trusts on a national and regional level. There websites usually give opening times. Googling "churches preservation trust" turns up a lot of them. You'll need to tweak the search to get your local trust.

If the church is still in use.. just make sure you check the noticeboard on the way in. Mid-week afternoons usually aren't a problem, but in the past I have had to nip out the side door as the mourners started coming in the main door.

You can come across some very odd things when you start nipping into old churches that you pass by. I'm still not sure what to make of the "kills" board in one church (counting the aircraft shot down or damaged by a nearby fighter base during WWII).
 
I imagine dropping a coin or two into the church roof restoration fund would go a long way to smoothing your passage. ;)

Or buy a 'Photography Permit' ... generally reserved for anyone with a DSLR - compacts, phone-cams etc ignored :shrug:
 
Or buy a 'Photography Permit' ... generally reserved for anyone with a DSLR - compacts, phone-cams etc ignored :shrug:

I've only ever had to buy a permit for cathedrals and minsters, for small town and country churches you're lucky to see anyone else at all, nevermind someone selling tickets.

If you do come across a cathedral that requires a ticket or permit, ask for *all* the options. For example, if you Gift Aid your entry ticket at Ely Cathedral they stamp it as valid for twelve months and you can visit as often as you want (but you'll still need a £1 tripod permit from the gift shop for each visit if you're using one). Peterborough Cathedral is free, but I'd rather pay for Ely Cathedral as in comparison Peterborough is rather uninspiring and too cluttered with modern additions (and there's a nicer church outside the cathedral just off Cathedral Square in Peterborough in any case).
 
I've only ever had to buy a permit for cathedrals and minsters, for small town and country churches you're lucky to see anyone else at all, nevermind someone selling tickets.

Probably correct in most instances, I was being facetious :D
 
Or buy a 'Photography Permit' ... generally reserved for anyone with a DSLR - compacts, phone-cams etc ignored :shrug:

Ah, so you've been to Wells cathedral too then :D
 
Wells, Canterbury, Gloucester, Salisbury (though in Salisbury it isn't a charge it's a 'suggested donation' - I declined the suggestion and got a weird look!)
 
UPDATE:

I emailed a reverend off a website belonging to a church near to where I work, so ive arranged a visit tomorrow evening - the guy seems really keen, especially after I offered copies of all the pics for him :)

Before I completely make a right balls up of this, can someone give me some tips for shooting indoors, in the dark:

Ive got some basic equipment:
canon 600d
18-55mm AF IS kit lens
Tamron 70-300mm
Some close up lenses 58mm and 62mm
Some Extension tubes
The onboard flash only im afraid :(
A cheapo tripod.
A cheapo remote shutter control

Knowing issues Ive had with pics Ive taken indoors with compacts in the past, i know using a flash will probably be a bad idea. Im going to get shine and reflection from all the shiny bits and most of it will still come out dark.

Im not expecting the sharpest pics from my tripod, so I will set the camera up, wait 10 seconds for all vibrations to discipate, then do pics. Hopefully it'll be steady enough to get some decent pics. I'll use liveview to check my progress - I want to get this at least half-right, would be embarassing to have to go back.... lol

Im really looking forward to this! :)

Thanks for all comments, been most appreciated :)
 
Bracketing might be a sensible option so as to get a variety of exposures ... maybe then select the best, or even do some light HDR.
 
cheers ed/gramps, will bear in mind the bracketing and will deffo post up pics for C&C, i dont mind bad comments - im here to learn :)
 
cheers mark, the reverend said it was dark in there, but im hoping, being around 5:15pm when i'll be there, i'll get some good light coming through the windows :)

am soooo looking forward to this!
 
An interesting thread: I really ought to comment, even though the thread is rather old.

I have taken many photos of stained glass in France, where many cathedrals are open for the public. Many are supported financially by the public purse through the state and local government and are regarded as national treasures, though in many cases they are also used for church worship. Maybe because of the use of public taxes for the upkeep of such buildings, the authorities allow the public to take photographs without much sign of restriction.

In the UK, the ownership and upkeep of churches varies from one denomination to another. In the Anglican church, a parish church is the responsibility of its own council, which these days is a registered charity. The council makes its own policy on the opening of its church in the week, and access for photography. There is wide variation. Unlike in France, there is hardly any funding from the state for upkeep.

I am both a keen photographer and a priest, so I see both aspects at the same time. My own church has some fabulous stained glass windows by the renowned 20th century artist John Hayward. I have been trying to take some definitive photographs of each window for a booklet which people will be able to take away.

There are many issues with the photography of a stained glass window. People might wish to add to the following list:

1. The light entering the camera will have been largely transmitted through the glass from outside the building. There is generally little contribution from light sources inside the building.

2. The intensity of the external light varies greatly through the day and throughout the seasons.

3. The external light source can be as diffuse as uniform cloud cover through to an effective point source of the sun in a cloudless sky. In the middle is a wide range of source widths, with the sun reflecting off white cumulus clouds of various sizes and dispositions relative to the windows.

4. The height of the main source of light varies as the angle of the sun varies.

5. The lighting can vary rapidly on part sunny days: from second to second. This makes it very challenging to get a set of photographs with similar external lighting conditions.

6. Buildings, trees and hills in the vicinity can affect the external lighting falling on the window.

7. For some windows, the camera will see through the stained glass to trees and buildings at a distance. How much do you want to have the surface of the stained glass in sharp focus, and the external features out of focus? Shallow depth of field can be helpful here, but with a massive window to capture, you may find that only part of the window can be in sharp focus, as the camera needs to be tilted in order to frame the entire window - think of very tall buildings. Tilt-shift lenses can help here.

8. John Hayward used some very lightly coloured glass in some parts of the windows; and very dark indeed close beside. Additionally, the leading makes very dark lines across the image. The dynamic range of the scene is far greater than I normally see in landscape or portrait photography. I find I have to use exposure bracketing of several stops to cover the dynamic range, even on a Canon 5D MkII. The problem is the subject: not the camera!

9. Internal lighting falling on the inside of the stained glass can sometimes be a problem. If the windows have not been cleaned in a while, there is a lot of dust. The windows can look pretty clear with the external light coming through them alone. Switch on the internal lighting and the dust shows up, reflecting the internal light. This reduces the dynamic range of the image, reduces contrast, and can introduce a slight shift of hue.

10. The amount of lead (think dark stripes and crossing lines) in a window reduces the average light across the whole image. Depending on your metering system, the automatically set exposure can make the stained glass too brightly lit. You need to allow for this by stopping down a little. I find it best to take some test shots and look at the fine detail in bright and dark parts of the image, adjusting the exposure to get best balance. But you are fighting against changing brightness levels outside. Not easy.

11. There is so much detail in stained glass windows, that noise can be a significant problem. I tend to use as low an ISO as I can manage. In consequence you need a long exposure. This is not in itself a problem, as the window is thankfully still. But a tripod is very helpful: almost a must. You may need to have one with an extending pillar and use a remote control in order to get the geometry right. I sometimes use a self-timer to avoid camera shake.

12. External flickering can be a problem in some locations: think of a bright Maple tree outside the building, lit by the sun and a breeze blowing the leaves. You get lots of twinkling coming through the image. Consider what kind of result you are looking for, and allow for these effects in how you set your camera.

13. To get really decent images of stained glass windows is a fantastic challenge as there are so many tough issues to face up to. I have found that I can only get decent images from very good primes or L zooms. I also find the need to hire glass on occasion.

14. Finally: do you use a wide lens fairly close to the window, or a telephoto from far away? Much depends on the design of the building and decent access points for a photographer, but it is best to carry a fairly extreme range of lenses. I have found a need for 24mm at the wide end to 400mm at the tele end.

If you are a good photographer who can cope well with all of these parameters, you might like to consider doing a shared project with a church: to capture their stained glass windows at their best, and produce a brochure. But do remember that each church is subject to its own separate council/committee. Reactions cannot be predicted! They vary enormously, and often take ages to make up their minds.

One more thing: most people associated with churches are volunteers, going about their work without financial gain, and without charging for their expenses. They make their contributions for the love of their community and their visitors. I hope that may help explain why sometimes you get what seems to be a not very professional approach. It can help if you do a little research on who is responsible for the fabric of the building, and speak to them about your interest.

Hoping this helps stimulate some more interest in this thread!
 
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Those are great points Richard :)

Thanks for sharing, there are so many churches and every single one, although similar are so different. Each has its own character. The last time I managed to do an inside church shoot, was around 5pm in autumn and I was quite pleased although I really wanted to get some run-rays prominently showing (without using much post to modify the image).

What would your recommended seasons/times of the day would be best? :)
 
Interesting thread, been thinking about doing a few church interiors with my 10-20mm and tripod.
Cheers :thumbs:
 
I've taken photographs in quite a few churches and a couple of cathedrals. I find most of the buildings are really beautiful and I can easily spend hours in them. I always leave a donation in the box, or buy a permit (Ripon). The only place I've come across (so far) that doesn't allow photography inside is Durham Cathedral.
 
Carlh raises the issue of timing: when is the best time to shoot inside a church?

This is a very good question, but one which is not easy to answer.

Think about the local geography and the orientation of the main church windows to the sun. What other buildings and trees might throw shadows across the windows, causing unwanted striations?

In my own church we have a high up triangular window on the south-east side of the church. When illuminated by a south-easterly sun in winter when the sun is lower in the sky, a bright triangle appears on the best stained glass windows, moving across them for about 2 to 3 hours. In summer, the triangle is extremely bright on the floor of the church. It tends to throw too much light on the interior of the stained glass, reducing the contrast of the image. This example illustrates the hazards that can occur.

What can you do to avoid such hazards?

Be prepared to inspect the church first, and draw up a schedule of the photos you'd like to take. Think of the focal lengths you'd like to use. Most of the time you'll be straining for better resolution as the detail in stained glass can be very sharp indeed. Although matters have improved in recent years, primes are still likely to be better than zooms in this regard - although there are exceptions.

Ask the administrator of the church if you can come in to take photos. S/he might be willing to give opinions on the best time to view the windows, and on the likelihood of interruptions. S/he will know from experience, so do ask!
 
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