Loading 120 film onto a Paterson spiral - any tips?

FishyFish

FishyFish

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My 120 negative storage sheets arrived today, so that means I can have a shot at developing some MF film for the first time. The actual development should be fine, but I'm more concerned about loading the film into the dev tank.

Does anyone have any tips? I can imagine the backing paper might get in the way in the changing bag.

Thanks. (y)
 
As you unrole the backing paper you will find the begining of the film, curl it backwards slightly to flatten the leading edge. Offer it into the reel and start loading, the other end of the film is taped to the paper, I usually just peal it off the paper and fold it over the end of the film
 
Ensure the spiral is dry.... any dampness can cause the film to jam.
Also trim the leading corners of the film very slightly to an angle .... it can avoid the right angled corners becoming snagged.
 
I find 120 easier than 35mm, the overall length is less, so less to push around the spiral, no sprocket holes and no leader to cut off. Once the film is engaged I hold the spiral up with the entry point to the spiral vertical and keep my thumbs on the entry point. I then use my little fingers to keep the film roll away from the spiral and generally find that I am able to feed it in unrolling as it goes. Unlike Karl, I tear the tape at the other end. it's usually masking tape and tears easily.
 
I tear the backing paper off before loading the reel, and then load it with the remains of the tape going in first, it seems to load better that way. I load mine in a darkroom rather than in a changing bag, so this method doesn't present a space problem.
 
I roll the whole thing off the backing paper in the changing bag before I start. Once you get to the end, there's a bit of tape holding it on to the backing paper. Make sure you take it off the film (and not just the paper). I usually stick it to the back of my hand to stop it getting stuck to anything in the dark. Then I "de-curl" the very beginning (or is it the end?) by curling it backwards. Makes it easier (for me) to get on the spool.

Also, make sure your reel is the right width before you put it in the bag. I think an early attempt of mine had it set to 127 film size and I was sweating away in the bag trying to figure out why it just wouldn't fit!

Oh - and good luck!
 
Harlequin565 said:
I roll the whole thing off the backing paper in the changing bag before I start. Once you get to the end, there's a bit of tape holding it on to the backing paper. Make sure you take it off the film (and not just the paper). I usually stick it to the back of my hand to stop it getting stuck to anything in the dark. Then I "de-curl" the very beginning (or is it the end?) by curling it backwards. Makes it easier (for me) to get on the spool.

Also, make sure your reel is the right width before you put it in the bag. I think an early attempt of mine had it set to 127 film size and I was sweating away in the bag trying to figure out why it just wouldn't fit!

Oh - and good luck!
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I did this once and for very sweaty hands... Wear rubber gloves off your doing this as the Halation layer plus water can get sticky enough too work a roll (learn from my mistake!)
 
I find the backing paper curls up on itself quite well, and thus tends to stay out of the way. What I do is gradually unroll the backing paper until I can feel the (loose, non-taped) end of the film. Then, I either tear off the initial coil of backing paper at this point, or sometimes leave it in place. Draw out the end of the film a little more and feed it into the spiral enough to make sure that the spiral has a grip of it. Once that's done, I do the spiral wiggle to load the film, with the backing paper coiling up at the backs of my thumbs. When I get to the taped end of the film, I put the spiral down and peel the tape off the film - hold one corner of the film and peel the tape and backing paper away sideways with all the bending and flexing in the latter. Another wiggle or so to get the last of the film into the spiral and close everything up.

I used to always tear the backing paper when I got to the start of the film, but recently found that I can leave it intact. I prefer to do this because it means there's an escape route if I need to stop and open the changing bag. If the backing paper is torn off, the opportunity to respool is lost. (Same reason I always keep the leader out when I rewind 35mm - loading the spiral from the cassette means I can back out if necessary.)

I would suggest that knowing you can back out if needed is likely to be less stressful to begin with, which leads to less sweatiness, which leads to easier loading.
 
Well that went much more smoothly than I expected. Took me 5 minutes start-to-finish!

I guess I should wait until the film is developed before I feel too pleased with myself, but all being well it was far easier than loading my two (so far) 35mm rolls.

I unrolled the backing paper until I felt the start of the film, then tore that piece of backing paper off and crumpled it into a ball out of the way at the back of the bag. I did as @nomad said, and attached the film with the backing paper behind my thumbs. When it got to the end of the roll and I felt tension, I peeled the the rest of the backing paper off and wound the remaining bit of film onto the spiral.

Will dev it tomorrow lunchtime, or maybe Saturday. :)
 
sirch said:
You have a super power level of self control, I couldn't get a film on the spiral and not process it :D
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It’s mostly because the afternoon is my best chance of locking down the bathroom for a few hours to dry the film. If I dev it tonight I can probably look forward to finding it in the shower tray in a puddle of half-congealed soap suds. :D
 
FishyFish said:
Well that went much more smoothly than I expected. Took me 5 minutes start-to-finish!
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Don't be lulled into a false sense of security, I must have loaded a thousand rolls and even now I still get a few that have me wondering if I'd ever loaded 120 on to a spiral in my life before.

Some don'ts -

Don't get wound up with uncooperative film and spirals, keep calm, separate the 2 and start again.
Don't use wet spirals
Don't dry spirals with a hairdryer or in the oven...lol
Don't try to use the ratchet mechanism if the film is jammed it will just kink the film
If it jams with 4 inches still to go, don't say stuff it and wang it in the tank, it ends up scratched and bent

:giggle:
 
I used to have trouble with loading 120 onto a Paterson reel, but never when I did it on an open bench in a darkroom. If I had a tip to offer, it would be to get a second spiral for 120 and not switch the spiral between sizes. It definitely worked for me, although others manage fine without doing it. :thinking:
 
I remove all the backing paper from the film; when I come to the masking tape holding the two together I peel the tape off the backing paper then fold it over onto the film.

I then use this edge to guide the film into the first part of the spiral. The tape helps to keep the leading edge of the film flatter so assists in starting the film.

Ive never had the tape come off the film during processing and have done hundreds of films this way.
 
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I generally wind the backing paper backwards and very carefully carry on winding until the whole film has been wound inside out. Without tearing the sticky tape I then let the backing and film unwind gently and feed the loose end into the reel. Provided the reel has been warmed before-hand this has always given me trouble free loading. I always load films in a changing bag, by the way.
 
The film is now devved and hanging to dry. Apart from one frame that is blank (where I forgot to take the lens cap off the Holga!) they look ok, so I guess the winding onto the spirals was a success. When I took everything out of the changing bag yesterday I'll admit to being slightly paranoid about finding a roll of blown film in the bag and a neatly wound roll of backing paper in the tank. :D
 
FishyFish said:
The film is now devved and hanging to dry. Apart from one frame that is blank (where I forgot to take the lens cap off the Holga!) they look ok, so I guess the winding onto the spirals was a success. When I took everything out of the changing bag yesterday I'll admit to being slightly paranoid about finding a roll of blown film in the bag and a neatly wound roll of backing paper in the tank. :D
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Keeping cool (temp wise) and calm is so important. When I first started developing I lost my patience so many times and wasted a couple of rolls by just giving up and ripping it from the changing back so well done for nailing it the first few times.

Hopefully I don't repeat it when I try and load this 4x5 either into the holders or the tank as that's getting pricey!
 
Wait until you do your first dev emptying and realise you didn't put the inner lid on until it clicked and the whole lot empties out into the sink, spiral and all!

Glad it all worked out NIge!
 
gazmorton2000 said:
Keeping cool (temp wise) and calm is so important. When I first started developing I lost my patience so many times and wasted a couple of rolls by just giving up and ripping it from the changing back so well done for nailing it the first few times.

Hopefully I don't repeat it when I try and load this 4x5 either into the holders or the tank as that's getting pricey!
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I have to admit to having surprised myself so far. It's not gone flawlessly by any means, but I've somehow managed to keep calm and resolve any issues when they occured. Maybe I'm using the Force or something - Jedi film developing. :D
 
Harlequin565 said:
Wait until you do your first dev emptying and realise you didn't put the inner lid on until it clicked and the whole lot empties out into the sink, spiral and all!

Glad it all worked out NIge!
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I'm making sure that I grip the tank in such a way that the inner lid is firmly in my grasp when I pour out the liquid. Your scenario is one I've already pre-imagined! :D
 
Well done for persevering, it’s can be a reel challenge. (Sorry)
Your write up for Emulsive pretty much captures the stress and pleasure of processing that first roll of film, if I look at the first rolls I ever processed at home they’re covered in scratches and exhibit bromide drag and drying marks and finger prints and and and, just about every example of poor processing practice. Although in my defence this was nearly 40 years ago and I didn’t have the benefit of the internet forums and YouTube for guidance so trying to decide what “gentle agitation” meant, and did I start the timer before or after I added the chemicals? and calculating the time with a watch without a second hand, I’m surprised I got anything from the film at all.
But I have to say the “magic” doesn’t diminish with age, familiarity hasn’t bred contempt, I am still as excited as that first time although slightly less stressed.

In terms of loading 120 on to reels I’ve never really got on with Paterson reels, when I have had them in the past I’ve always removed the ball bearings, I found them more hinderance than help.

No such problems since I moved to Jobo tanks and reels a few years ago.
 
Another thing to do is, after developing each roll, note how much blank film there is outside the first and last frames. This will vary by camera, and will be affected by how you load each roll, and how you wind on if using a red window camera. Building up an idea of how much unused film there will be at each end can help with handling when loading into the spiral, which translates into less chance of getting fingerprints on the image areas.

For me, that means I have a better idea of how much film I can get a hold of when getting it started in the spiral, and when peeling the tape off at the end of loading.
 
RaglanSurf said:
Well done for persevering, it’s can be a reel challenge. (Sorry)
Your write up for Emulsive pretty much captures the stress and pleasure of processing that first roll of film, if I look at the first rolls I ever processed at home they’re covered in scratches and exhibit bromide drag and drying marks and finger prints and and and, just about every example of poor processing practice. Although in my defence this was nearly 40 years ago and I didn’t have the benefit of the internet forums and YouTube for guidance so trying to decide what “gentle agitation” meant, and did I start the timer before or after I added the chemicals? and calculating the time with a watch without a second hand, I’m surprised I got anything from the film at all.
But I have to say the “magic” doesn’t diminish with age, familiarity hasn’t bred contempt, I am still as excited as that first time although slightly less stressed.

In terms of loading 120 on to reels I’ve never really got on with Paterson reels, when I have had them in the past I’ve always removed the ball bearings, I found them more hinderance than help.

No such problems since I moved to Jobo tanks and reels a few years ago.
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There's certainly something to be said for the wealth of information and guides available online. It's very easy to take it for granted nowadays.
 
I just attempted to load a 120 film onto a Paterson reel for the first time. It did not go well :mad: I have watched a number of YT videos on different methods for loading the film and everyone was successful.

I tried with the paper backing on which didn't seem to work. I then took the paper backing off and persevered for maybe an hour with the result my hands got sweaty and the film started to get sticky.

At one point I thought I had it past the ball bearings so started with the r/h reel to load the film: it moved about 2 inches then the end came out.

The end result: one wasted film and an hour or more of my life I'll never get back coupled with a high level of frustration and stress. It really shouldn't be this hard!

I have an old exposed film and that worked fine in daylight with and without my eyes shut but in the changing bag, no go!

I'm looking at getting a stainless steel reel for 120 films as these are apparently much easier - I'm looking to get this one that apparently fits the Paterson tanks. I'd appreciate knowing what do people think? And any advice as well appreciated.
 
I break it down into 2 stages.

1. Get the backing paper off and out of the way. I've seen videos with people who just uncoil it and load the spiral at the same time and I just couldn't do it and got into a sweaty mess. As soon as I took the 1st step of getting the paper right off and into the corner of the bag, things improved.

2. I actually take the 1st quarter of an inch of the film and hard roll it the other way to try and straighten out the natural curl. With my left hand holding the spiral, I keep thumb and forefinger over the 'guides' so that I can at least get the film in the approximate right place. Sadly it's trial and error, and I've definitely improved with practise.

I found my old squaeky Jobo tank much much easier to load 120 on over the Paterson one. The lip to guide the 120 onto the spiral is much bigger.

As to stainless steel spirals, I have no idea, as I've never used them.

Keep persevering!
 
While this doesn’t help with loading technique, I would advise that, if things are going awry and you’re getting sweaty, just place the film in the tank, fit the lid securely so it’s light tight, and then try again later when you‘re feeling refreshed and everything has cooled down.
 
thewiccaman said:
I just attempted to load a 120 film onto a Paterson reel for the first time. It did not go well :mad: I have watched a number of YT videos on different methods for loading the film and everyone was successful.

I tried with the paper backing on which didn't seem to work. I then took the paper backing off and persevered for maybe an hour with the result my hands got sweaty and the film started to get sticky.

At one point I thought I had it past the ball bearings so started with the r/h reel to load the film: it moved about 2 inches then the end came out.

The end result: one wasted film and an hour or more of my life I'll never get back coupled with a high level of frustration and stress. It really shouldn't be this hard!

I have an old exposed film and that worked fine in daylight with and without my eyes shut but in the changing bag, no go!

I'm looking at getting a stainless steel reel for 120 films as these are apparently much easier - I'm looking to get this one that apparently fits the Paterson tanks. I'd appreciate knowing what do people think? And any advice as well appreciated.
Click to expand...
I just called www.secondhanddarkroom.co.uk and the guy checked and said that the Hewes reel definitely won't fit the Paterson tank so back to frustration & wasted films I guess. Oh well ...
 
FishyFish said:
While this doesn’t help with loading technique, I would advise that, if things are going awry and you’re getting sweaty, just place the film in the tank, fit the lid securely so it’s light tight, and then try again later when you‘re feeling refreshed and everything has cooled down.
Click to expand...
Darn it! Why didn't I think of that? Idiot that I am!
 
Every day's a school day, but some seem to find it beneficial to snip off the corners of the film to help it onto the reel. I've never tried it, but worth having a go with your wasted(?) film.
 
As I've said before I've only very rarely had a problem. One thing that I do is to clean the spiral very well both after use when wet and again before loading with a clean dry toothbrush. I make sure the balls are free moving and not jamming.

I would never fully remove the backing paper, I think it helps to have it unroll as it Ioads. The first inch or so is not exposed so you can hold the film by the end in one hand and the spiral in the other and pull it into the grooves past the balls. I then hold the spiral up in the bag with my thumbs on the entry point to the spiral and the film entering the spiral vertically. I can feel the roll/paper with my little fingers and as I load I unroll some film when the roll hits my little fingers.
 
MrDrizz said:
Have a look at this video.

View: https://youtu.be/fSuUR5yVKa4
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Absolutely none of that, for me at least :-) I never try to uncurl the end, I always try to keep everything in line, I go for the very minimum of handling. Again as I have said before I always have more problems with 35mm because there is so much more to push around the spiral. Another thing that sometimes helps is to pull the two sides of the spiral apart a little, just to ease the film round if it is starting to jam.
 
Past the balls, that's the trick, and a good 2 cm past as well.
 
I prefer AP reels, always wear gloves because the moisture off your hands will be enough to make things sticky

Make sure your reels are clean and dry, I have heard of people putting them through the dishwasher or even using toothpaste and a toothbrush to clean the grooves. Make sure the balls are free before you start.
 
Peter B said:
Every day's a school day, but some seem to find it beneficial to snip off the corners of the film to help it onto the reel. I've never tried it, but worth having a go with your wasted(?) film.
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I saw that on one of the YT videos I watched and tried it on that 1st film.

Just shot another roll of film and going to have another try. I'm not snipping the corners this time.
 
Karl.t1965 said:
I prefer AP reels, always wear gloves because the moisture off your hands will be enough to make things sticky
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What kind of gloves do you use? I have cotton and latex? I may try the cotton. My concern though is it will greatly reduce my sense of touch/feel wearing gloves.

I'm not familiar with AP reels. Do they fit the Paterson Universal tank?
 
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