Linux Mint

I had the reverse problem , I borrowed a Windows PC to Download a version of Linux , boy was I baffled ! like your experience nothing seemed to work I didn't understand what anything did or how to get at anything. That said I haven't used anything but Linux for the past 25 years or so ! I've used many Flavours of Linux over the years but have generally stuck with one of the many Ubuntu flavours. I've never had any sort of Antivirus and never suffered a crash apart from once when a hard drive gave up.I use Freedos on an old 385 PC for a while as it allowed me to use some old Dos Ham radio programs and the 9 pin com port that it had.The newest PC I have is 11 years old.
 
BADGER.BRAD said:
I had the reverse problem , I borrowed a Windows PC to Download a version of Linux , boy was I baffled ! like your experience nothing seemed to work I didn't understand what anything did or how to get at anything. That said I haven't used anything but Linux for the past 25 years or so ! I've used many Flavours of Linux over the years but have generally stuck with one of the many Ubuntu flavours. I've never had any sort of Antivirus and never suffered a crash apart from once when a hard drive gave up.I use Freedos on an old 385 PC for a while as it allowed me to use some old Dos Ham radio programs and the 9 pin com port that it had.The newest PC I have is 11 years old.
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Curious, I find Windows and Linux much more similar in many ways than Apple OS. The biggest difference would be not knowing which applications to use when I wanted to do a particular task.
 
Raincloud said:
Tempted by mint
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Go on, splash out. ;)

You can try running it from a memory stick or DVD as a 'live' distro before installing to see if you like it. I usually give a new OS a try like this first just in case there's an issue with hardware, although Linux is incredibly compatible and that almost never happens now. You can also install alongside windows and dual-boot or install to a separate SSD and boot off that.

I used Linux as my personal OS for about 10 years, and it was only a need for 100% compatibility and frustration with OSX that made me go back to windows.
 
Raincloud said:
Tempted by mint
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Do it!
ancient_mariner said:
Go on, splash out. ;)

You can try running it from a memory stick or DVD as a 'live' distro before installing to see if you like it. I usually give a new OS a try like this first just in case there's an issue with hardware, although Linux is incredibly compatible and that almost never happens now. You can also install alongside windows and dual-boot or install to a separate SSD and boot off that.

I used Linux as my personal OS for about 10 years, and it was only a need for 100% compatibility and frustration with OSX that made me go back to windows.
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What the man said. I honestly haven't looked back since I installed Linux Mint. It just works so well.
 
derail start << "derail end;"

BADGER.BRAD said:
The newest PC I have is 11 years old.
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Yeah, I'm daily-driving GNU/Linux system (not Mint though); and it is unsurprising that my non-business lower-midrange laptop I specifically bought for running that still continues to be usable today, as it have been for nearly 13 years now. The thing can look quite war-worn on the outside, and I have to be gentle with it physically; but my laptop still works for pretty much everything I need it to do.

Oh, and this laptop got Freedom Boot too (1), so Microsoft and their OEM cartels won't get any say in which OS I can or cannot use. I can even choose to boot the very DOS (FreeDOS) installation originally came with the laptop, today (2); by restarting my laptop and press few keys under GNU boot manager. (3)

I also have fun watching technician reactions when I brought my laptop to stores in local tech mall to buy spare parts or peripherals, whenever I had to answer a curiosity question of "How old this laptop was?"

derail end;

(1) I'm referring to classic 16-bit BIOS/CSM "legacy" bootup capability; the OS-agnostic way that PC/laptops before 2011 booted. Some brand-new machines you can buy today don't have this type of OS freedom anymore. If one didn't have to use Windows, this Freedom Boot is the most surefire configuration to install and boot most GNU/Linux distributions.

(2) Some people might itch to know what I would even do under DOS in 2020s: I write some software that also works under DOS (for technological longevity and moral reasons), and that is where I test each version before releasing.

(3) GRand Unified Bootloader, from GNU project; usually known by its abbreviation "GRUB".
 
My apologies if I'm wrong but doesn't that last post have just a little aroma of artificial intelligence writing? :thinking:
 
AndrewFlannigan said:
doesn't that last post have just a little aroma of artificial intelligence writing? :thinking:
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You are not the first person to say that; I have previously dealt with this kind of question in IRC. However, it is the first time I've gotten this kind of question in forum context.

Granted, the method I use for drafting my posts may be a bit unusual (1); but drafted or otherwise, I don't think this have anything to do with the tone or style of what I write in any case. So what I'm curious about is rather why do you think I had involved a prose-laundering machine in a comment I have manually typed up by hand?

To be honest, I have tried to ask people who thought I was some kind of prose launderer in the past (which I am not, and I never, ever involve myself with such unethical venture) about this, and their answers were just... inconsistent (2); so I would like to know about this case too.

If you wondered about the footnotes: that is my posting style I have been using in multiple forums since like, second half of 2010s IIRC. I do this because I often nitpick individual details in things I write, and I like to digress into a lot of tangents between lines; my postings would often be hard to read if I didn't use them. (I'm also known for posting several-printed-pages-long replies on other forums, like this one)

But if it was the `derail start << "derail end;"`... that was a sort of inside gag I intentionally put in since there since I spotted some other GNU/Linux user in the thread. Otherwise, I would just put "(derail start)" at start and close with "(derail end)" because what I just replied didn't have anything to do with Mint (I'm using Debian).


(1) I always draft everything I post on the 'net in my text editor, and sometimes I sit on my drafts for days whenever I thought my post was too ranty, or not presentable enough; I also keep original copy of everything I posted as reference. My posts in this forum are no exception.

(2) The most-bizarre answer I've gotten so far was "Well, the consistency and thorough explanation"; yes, I kid you not!
 
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Mr Bump said:
linux is garbage just use W11 and spend your excess time being productive
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I would say the other ways around I would totally struggle with Windoze , I'm guessing mainly as I used to Linux , after a while I would probably get used to Windows but it would take me for ever so wasting my time ! I also like the idea of a community running and writing the software rather than a cartel blocking others from using alternatives and locking the software up so no one can see what it is really doing with your data !
ancient_mariner said:
The biggest difference would be not knowing which applications to use when I wanted to do a particular task.
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That was my problem really , I haven't a clue to any of the names of software in Windoze so didn't know where to start !
xwindows said:
The thing can look quite war-worn on the outside, and I have to be gentle with it physically; but my laptop still works for pretty much everything I need it to do.
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My laptop was retired a couple of years ago as it was just old and battered ( A bit like how I feel) but a freak accident with the new one forced me back into using it , The battery is dead, The power lead socket on the laptop is well worn so I had to cable tie it back to the laptop to stop it dropping out mid use ( majorly frustrating) there is some big chunks of plastic that have fallen out, The screen plastic separates ( back and front) and it has a screen bleed in the corners ! In fairness it is time it was changed ! See below
xwindows said:
so Microsoft and their OEM cartels won't get any say in which OS I can or cannot use.
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As mentioned above I need a new laptop, With this in mind, the fact I'm a skinflint and don't need anything fast with Linux I thought about a Chrome Book but have found out that it is a bit of a nightmare to put other operating systems on ( Or at least so I read) Personally I don't want an operating system run by people who's main interest is data farming so to avoid the hassle I'm going for a Windoze laptop , That said the last Windows laptop ( or should I say Windoze preloaded laptop) proved to be a pain in the butt to install Linux on ! There was a sense of achievement in over writing it !
 
xwindows said:
You are not the first person to say that; I have previously dealt with this kind of question in IRC. However, it is the first time I've gotten this kind of question in forum context.
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I don't know, that form of response is pretty much what a reply generator might be expected to offer.

Still, I for one will give you the benefit of the doubt, for the moment. ;)
 
xwindows said:
so I would like to know about this case too
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Long and rambling posts that might be much shorter are a hint, although one or two others also do this. In a forum context it errs towards discourteous and can sometimes look like it's done to make reply difficult. Machines have no difficulty creating vast arrays of words, whereas humans generally favour briefer expression.
 
I think WIndows 11 is a really good operating system. I have that on my main computer as Adobe products work on it as well as my games.

If you don't play games and are happy with opensource software for photography like Darktable then Linux mint is a great option. It also keeps older machines (that are slow on Windows or no longer able to cope with requirements for W11) going. I put it on my mother-in-law's computer about 5 years ago and it's still going strong and she can use it fine (she's in her 80s and not computer literate)
 
inquisitive_chap said:
I think WIndows 11 is a really good operating system. I have that on my main computer as Adobe products work on it as well as my games.

If you don't play games and are happy with opensource software for photography like Darktable then Linux mint is a great option. It also keeps older machines (that are slow on Windows or no longer able to cope with requirements for W11) going. I put it on my mother-in-law's computer about 5 years ago and it's still going strong and she can use it fine (she's in her 80s and not computer literate)
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I think that's right. I understand why people stick with Windows when they are invested in the software. I'm not so. Fortunately for me my own requirements are for a good word processor, so I could more easily change from one to the other.
 
inquisitive_chap said:
opensource software for photography like Darktable then Linux mint is a great option.
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There is also RawTherapee; which I currently have in my setup, but still haven't make too much use of, since I don't really shot raw that often yet.

However, if one likes rawdogging without adjustments, or would rather have adjustments done in regular editing programs like GNU GIMP, or would like to pull some shell scripting/Makefile acrobat upon one's photographs (which I do!); there is also a command-line DCraw as well.

^ Some other Free software raw editors (RawTherapee included) actually use this under the hood.

inquisitive_chap said:
I put it on my mother-in-law's computer about 5 years ago and it's still going strong and she can use it fine (she's in her 80s and not computer literate)
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Yeah, it lines up with my experience that "newbie" who use computers for just basic things: get them web browser, media player, document viewer, and in some cases, word processor; optionally with someone (often you) who they could occasionally ask questions to, and they would get it going fine.

There were some years in the past that my elderly mother (60s) would use my laptop often enough that I created a dedicated Unix user for her; and she went at it without much complaint, even that it was just a relatively-barebone Debian installation with vaguely-familiar GNOME2 desktop and unbranded Mozilla browser.

It is actually the power users like me that are more difficult to convert; because I have to get to know the new system equally as much (down to filesystem structure, boot process, tweaking, and system programming in my case) in order to feel comfortable to switch. I grew up with Windows since elementary school, and got first real experience with GNU/Linux in my high school days in 2008; but I only "slipped" into single-booting it since like... 2017, almost a decade later.

inquisitive_chap said:
I think WIndows 11 is a really good operating system.
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I see it very differently: I treat Windows version 10 and later as "spyware disguised as an OS", not a real OS that user controls.

When Windows 8 made debut with all the UEFI "Secure Boot" (read: shackled boot) and Windows RT lockdown controversy, I already saw it as a writing on the wall that Microsoft-powered system is going down a route of "technology as a digital concentration camp". While I was using Windows as the main OS just like most people back in the days; as a Free software guy who refuse to bow down to such thing, I know that my days on Windows was now numbered.

When a chance came, I started preparing my "escape route" by buying my first laptop in my price range with best GNU/Linux compatibility-- scouring several local tech malls and expo to do so; flicked on the Freedom Boot mode, then installed my favorite distribution, single-boot it, and live with that. (With my still-dualbooting desktop computer as a fallback if I really needed Windows for something)

^ Spoiler: that very laptop (Samsung NP370) is the laptop I'm typing this on right now.

It was definitely not a bed of roses, but I make do (0); and customized my setup along the way for years, eventually to the point that I could live with it like second home; and I went back to Windows on desktop less and less. When Microsoft pulled the support plug on Windows 7 (the last Windows I could tolerate) in like... 2020, Windows was basically a past for me at that point.

That was how I made the switch. And yeah, like you said, the fact that I don't game much does help.

But in any case, I don't believe that going cold turkey on switching was going to do much good for serious computer users; but at least they got to dual-boot or USB-boot GNU/Linux, and find their way around to access their on-disk files (beware of the BitLocker! (1)), and casually try out remaking their workflow there at their own pace.

With Windows 10 and 11 being tethered to the universal backdoor called Windows Update, it means Microsoft can push any malicious antifeatures (2) upon users anytime it wants: what is "good" today might not remain good tomorrow. So, when Microsoft pulled something nasty again (like that Recall bullcrap); people who have prepared would have an escape hatch ready for them to go their own way, instead of being effectively forced to stay under Windows like a prisoner in their own machine.


(0) I should mention here that I was a Photoshop junkie (thanks to my high school); so it goes without saying about me tearing my hairs out in the first few years of using GNU GIMP.

(1) I see the automatically-enabled BitLocker disk encryption in new Windows 11 installs (since 24H2, circa 2024) as a sinister ploy to make offline data migration as well as data access from dual-booting GNU/Linux a pain in the neck, or outright impossible if the user didn't think to manually export the key beforehand.

(2) Feature, but anti-user.
 
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ancient_mariner said:
Long and rambling posts that might be much shorter are a hint, although one or two others also do this. In a forum context it errs towards discourteous and can sometimes look like it's done to make reply difficult. Machines have no difficulty creating vast arrays of words, whereas humans generally favour briefer expression.
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I'm coming round gradually to the theory that R2D2's idiot son has joined our party but I could still be wrong!

Meanwhile, back on the main track, I wonder just how many people, like myself, have found that the Ubuntu subsystem on Windows is actually a very useful thing? I find myself doing things on the Ubuntu command line that I used to need a second machine for. I've never really been a fan of any of the Unix Graphics interfaces, ever since I had a bad fright on an X-Windows terminal a few decades ago. The Windows/Ubuntu combination meets my needs very well.
 
I brought a new old laptop a few days ago as mine was seriously on it's last legs ( £31 from eBay) and when it arrived with Windoze on my first idea was to put a flavor of Linux on it. Because of this thread I thought I'll try Mint and have to say so far it has been fantastic , about 20 seconds to fully boot and is very similar to my beloved Ubuntu ( but better) The only slight problem was it kept going to sleep while in use, that has been disabled and it now works fine ! A++ Mint
 
BADGER.BRAD said:
I brought a new old laptop a few days ago as mine was seriously on it's last legs ( £31 from eBay) and when it arrived with Windoze on my first idea was to put a flavor of Linux on it. Because of this thread I thought I'll try Mint and have to say so far it has been fantastic , about 20 seconds to fully boot and is very similar to my beloved Ubuntu ( but better) The only slight problem was it kept going to sleep while in use, that has been disabled and it now works fine ! A++ Mint
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Mint IS Ubuntu but better.
 
I put Linux Mint on my desktop last week and made it a dual boot system as I need Windows to run my Lightroom (no, I don't want to use an emulator).

Everything went fine, I used Rufus to make a bootable USB stick, loaded it all on to my second SSD and away I went. Windows worked fine, Mint worked fine...and then it didn't. After about ten minutes, Linux hung up. No input possible, mouse moved around but did nothing, a complete halt. I had to knock the power off.

Started again, booted into Mint and after ten minutes or so, same thing happened. If I had to guess, I would think the CPU over-heated, it had all the symptoms of a seized processor—can't imagine why it would have done that but there it was, stopped.

I thought I'd just forget it and remove Mint from my PC. Now I don't know how it happened, or why it happened—perhaps finger-trouble, or something more ominous—but after following all the instructions for removal, changing partitions, etc. etc., it would no longer see a boot drive, 'disk error'! I persevered until the point when the moment I switched it on I got a blue screen and the useful message 'Something went wrong, you cannot continue'. And that was that.

After much faffing about, worrying that I had blown away my BIOS/UEFI, I managed to get it to boot from a recovery USB but my Windows had gone, along with everything that was on my separate data drive—letters, photographs, games; all gone.

Fortunately, all my data was backed up (I'm not stupid) and after completely re-installing Windows 11, I recovered everything.

Now I can't say what went wrong, but it will be a long time before I try Linux again.

It's strange, because about two months ago, I changed my laptop to Linux Mint as a single OS system and it has worked fine, still is.
 
That's odd Caoline. There's a good chance that your hard drive with windows wold have been readable in another system in order to recover the data, but good that you had a backup so didn't have to try that. For those dual-booting with a desktop unit, I reckon it's better to buy a cheap SSD and install to that, using F12 to select bootable drive.
 
GetBusyLiving said:
Started again, booted into Mint and after ten minutes or so, same thing happened. If I had to guess, I would think the CPU over-heated, it had all the symptoms of a seized processor—can't imagine why it would have done that but there it was, stopped.
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I have seen similar behavior to that where a distro doesn't create a swap partition/file and then just runs out of RAM when a few applications are started
 
sirch said:
I have seen similar behavior to that where a distro doesn't create a swap partition/file and then just runs out of RAM when a few applications are started
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Well, Linux seems to be catching on and there will come a time when it is much easier to install and use. The extra things one still has to do like downloading other programs to make a USB bootable doesn't make it user-friendly to the computer-illiterate, one day though, someone will put it all together—of course, then we'll have to start paying for it.
 
GetBusyLiving said:
Well, Linux seems to be catching on and there will come a time when it is much easier to install and use. The extra things one still has to do like downloading other programs to make a USB bootable doesn't make it user-friendly to the computer-illiterate, one day though, someone will put it all together—of course, then we'll have to start paying for it.
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The bootable usb is standard for windows these days unless you buy a pc with it preinstalled.
 
GetBusyLiving said:
...doesn't make it user-friendly to the computer-illiterate...
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I don't think that Linus and the rest of the nerdocracy wanted something that's "friendly to the computer-illiterate".

I've watched it develop since the beginning of the 1990s and my feeling is that it has always been intended to put a heavyweight system in the hands of anyone who wanted one. That a lot of people have worked so hard to also turn it into a Windows competitor, is to me a great bonus.
 
I didn't really get on board with Linux until 2000/2001, but most distros only required a minimum of knowledge to get started since then, and now so much is automated that it's incredibly easy. My first Windows computer (1997) required booting from a floppy to get started before I could format the hard drive and then start installing Windows 95 from a CD. And every piece of hardware needed its own driver, usually from a separate floppy or CD. TBH modern Linux feels almost effortless.
 
Isn't it just. It's a breath of fresh air, for sure. It's slick and well polished. I appreciate the simplicity of it, and the way it just works. Windows just seems like hard work by comparison
 
sirch said:
I have seen similar behavior to that where a distro doesn't create a swap partition/file and then just runs out of RAM when a few applications are started
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That would seem to fit the problem.

Is that something that the installation should have dealt with or did I miss something?
 
GetBusyLiving said:
That would seem to fit the problem.

Is that something that the installation should have dealt with or did I miss something?
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Installation should have created a swap file automatically. You could create one manually (IIRC G-Parted was the application I used to manage partitions) but shouldn't have to do that.
 
Interesting thread, my son gave me his old laptop a few month ago, an Acer Aspire and it has sat there doing nothing. Might have a bit play with this Mint and see what all the fuss is about. As a long time Mac user since system 6 it will be interesting to see what the differences are.
 
Nikon f1.8 said:
Interesting thread, my son gave me his old laptop a few month ago, an Acer Aspire and it has sat there doing nothing. Might have a bit play with this Mint and see what all the fuss is about. As a long time Mac user since system 6 it will be interesting to see what the differences are.
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I've recently tried Emmabuntüs and found it somewhat Apple-like in appearance, with a dock instead of the usual toolbar. It also seems fairly lightweight and quick even on a 6 year old Dell base unit. If you try it, install the non-free software too, to give a bit more flexibility.
 
GetBusyLiving said:
That would seem to fit the problem.

Is that something that the installation should have dealt with or did I miss something?
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I don't think you missed anything, my hunch is that there's something in the installer that decides not to create a swap partition or file if it thinks there's enough RAM. Google or an AI will tell you how to add a swap file after installation
 
I've played with Ubuntu before, and I see that on Parallels I can install Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian or Kali in a Virtual Machine. Are any of those better than the others?
 
Pound Coin said:
I've played with Ubuntu before, and I see that on Parallels I can install Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian or Kali in a Virtual Machine. Are any of those better than the others?
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I would choose Debian - it's often the base other distros are built on, and seems quick and versatile. Fedora tends to be a bit wacky with Gnome as the desktop but is certainly different, Ubuntu I never liked, Kali I never tried.
 
Pound Coin said:
I've played with Ubuntu before, and I see that on Parallels I can install Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian or Kali in a Virtual Machine. Are any of those better than the others?
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I think it all a matter of personal taste.

I like Ubuntu but then again, I only use it in text mode. I don't have any need to use the graphic front ends at the moment.
 
Well, the install is on its way. I see that L Office is included. I'm on an ARM processor, and it's a virtual machine, so I could have Ubuntu as well. Will have a play.
 
A lot of it is personal taste, and Ubuntu is widely used, though often as a base for distros with a more pleasing interface. I'm not a CL user, and once I used a computer with mouse there was no going back.
 
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