Lightroom : Workflow and filestructure.

Marcel

Marcel

Kim Jong Bod
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Marcel
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Currently, my file structure is this :

photography_hd.jpg


Ignoring the current years originals folders (from 07.30 onwards), lets just assume I have the fololwing 5 main folders present as you can see in the screenie.

00 - Originals (With subfolders for year, and a further subfolder for each shoot, starting with a 4 digit date, as you can see in the screenshot)
01 - Working On.
02 - Processed.
03 - Web
04 - Master TIFFS

Now I know I've explained this before, but please bear with me.

My current workflow is this...Copy original RAW files into a relevant subfolder in 00 - Originals (One folder per shoot / day).

Load up RawShooter or Capture One, delete the crap, and select a handful of files for processing, then click 'Process'.
The resulting TIFFS are then places in "Working On".
I then load up Photoshop, where the first thing I do, is save a copy of the TIFF (which is a fresh raw conversion) to 04 - Master TIFFS. The idea is, is that in the future, if I change RAW converters etc, or whatever, or I lose the RAW, and I need to reprocess the shot, I have a version that has been untouched by Photoshop, and I don't need to process the RAW again.

Anyway. Once there is a Backup TIFF made, I edit the shot in Photoshop, saving it as a Layered TIFF, with no compression. Once complete, I will move the file to 03 - Processed, where it goes in a year folder.
I then save a resized, bordered and sharpened version to 04 - Web.

Now. I would like to start using Lightroom, but with the fact I have 4 different versions of a shot, in different folders, I'm not sure how I can adapt my workflow.

I suppose I could keep all versions of each shot in the same folder.
So I would have a folder for the days shooting, then a subfolder for the converted tiffs, and another subfolder for the JPEGs, and make use of Lightrooms Stacking feature.
However, this isn't really feasible for me.

I could just use Lightroom to catalogue all the RAWS, but this means keeping all my RAW files on disk, to keep the catalogue/library operational.

Any ideas, how I can adapt my workflow, or even better, use Lightroom to suit not just my workflow, but my folder structure, which I'm quite fond of.

Muchus Gracias :)
 
I wish I could be this organised.

I spent the better part of a week looking for a shot on my pc once .... Only to realise that I had put it on the laptop :bonk:
 
Hi Marcel - Now that I use lightroom, I never look at the file manager. Most images I don't even create TIFFs or JPEGs from, I just leave them as a ligthroom adjusted RAW file. If I edit something in PS I just stack the TIFF with the original.

When I used Rawshooter I used to make a full set of high quality JPEGs or TIFFs from every batch, now I don't bother unless I want to upload them to photobox or the web.
 
Im finding Lightroom rather difficult to organize to be honest.
 
I used to be semi-organised in my folder structure. Folders for each date, subfolder for RAW, subfolder for PSD, subfolder for web and print output.

Now, I just let Lr import my files and organise at it sees fit (I set it to folder for each day). I make my adjustments in Lr, create a PSD if necessary, which is stacked with the RAW. Then I export my output from Lr, or from PS if I've used it.

The output goes into a folder outside of Lr's control, as I'll either be uploading them to my website, or sending to Photobox.

I've re-imported and tagged all my previous RAW photos now so my whole collection is in Lr.
 
Do you really need so many TIFF versions and folders for originals, working on etc ?

I simply have a folder for each subject and then within that put all of the files. Sometimes I'll create a RAW, JPEG or PSD folder within the subject folder but only if there are hundreds of images from the shoot that need separating for ease of browsing.

My Lightroom workflow

  1. Import RAW files into Lightroom - creating a new subject folder in the process (if required)
  2. Go through the images; ranking the best and deleting the rubbish ones
  3. Make the necessary adjustments to the files I want to process - white balance, exposure, vibrance etc
  4. Output the images to Photoshop as a PSD for noise reduction, sharpening etc
  5. Output the images from Photoshop to JPEG for web or print, or, save the PSD (which updates the file in Lightroom with the adjustments you just made) and use Lightroom to generate print contact sheets or a web gallery.

The above ensures I have the original RAW file with the history of edits if I need to role back, I have the PSD saved with my final adjustments and a final processed JPEG.
 
I think thats about what I do. But I only have the files referenced in the LR library...from their original place they are imported to on my pc......not actually copied into lightroom.
Do you all do that too?

If it copied them all into Lightroom Id end up with double trouble!:D
 
Adobe should do a "Classroom in a book" book for this software!
 
Janice said:
I think thats about what I do. But I only have the files referenced in the LR library...from their original place they are imported to on my pc......not actually copied into lightroom.
Do you all do that too?

If it copied them all into Lightroom Id end up with double trouble!:D
Click to expand...

Thats what I do. I prefer to manage both things. I have a filesystem structure that I can use with any other program, Bridge, iView, etc and I have the LR structure.
 
Sorry if my processes above was misleading.
I do reference the files from my Hard Drive; the term for getting photos into Lightroom is called 'Import'
 
SDK Yeah I do.

I only have two TIFF versions...the one straight out of the RAW converter, as a "midway backup" so to speak, and one fully processed, layered versions.

However...I've just realised...Although I need them (OK I dont need the backup version, I'm just being extra cautious I suppose...might get rid of that step), what I *dont* need to do though is catalogue the TIFFS.

The problem I face with lightroom, is fitting it in with my folder/file structure. And I was unsure how I would get it to catalogue both the RAWS, AND the TIFFS.

I've just realised, I can get round this easily by Importing only the RAWS into Lightroom. I then catalogue, index, and export them as TIFFs to my 02 - Working On, folder, where I then go into Photoshop, and work on them as before etc.

Just a note, the reason I have the folders set up like this is because I can, at a glance, see which shots I've not yet processed, or which I have half-worked on etc.
Plus I also keep a web folder on my drive, with all my processed websized shots, so that I can quickly browse through them if I want something. Much easier browsing through the thumbnails of a few hundred small JPEGS, than a few hundred 150 meg+ multilayered TIFFS...lol

Thanks for the advice chaps. I'll start importing my photos into Lightroom in the morning, and watch some more tutorials on it.
 
For the record, I'm still using Downloader Pro to put them in the above structure, and then just reference them from lightroom (Just caught Janices post)
 
Marcel said:
For the record, I'm still using Downloader Pro to put them in the above structure, and then just reference them from lightroom (Just caught Janices post)
Click to expand...

As long as we're all singing from the same hymn sheet! :D
 
My file structure used to be 10 different subject folders (family, friends, travel, cars, flowers etc) with individual shoots within a folder labelled by date. Since I started shooting alot more photos in the last 6 months this file structure was proving to be a bit of a problem. I decided when upgrading to lightroom that I would completely change my file structure and use keywords to find my photos instead. I went for this structure which I'm hoping will scale well to larger numbers of photos:

p631336377-3.jpg
 
Looks like a nicely organised structure.

I just have one question. Once you've processed your shots in Photoshop or similar, where do you save the resulting file for backup?
I see you have folders for a print version (which would probably be sharpened etc), and a smaller, web version, but no "Full Size, processed, unsharpened". Or do you not keep them in that state at all?
 
I've actually modified the directory structure slightly since I made that diagram. Firstly, the DNG+JPG folder is now called Originals. I convert RAW from the card straight into DNG into the Originals folder (hence no need for the RAW Download folder). Thats where I reference the files from in Lightroom (I don't import them into Lightrooms databse).

Regarding files worked on in Photoshop, I usualy move them back into the Originals folder when I'm done and import them into Lightroom for keywording, web export etc. However, I only use Photoshop on less than 5% of my images so that works for me. If you use photoshop on more of your images it might seem like a slightly clunky workflow.
 
All my photos will see Photoshop at some time in their life. Either simply for resizing and bordering, or just a little saturation boost etc.

Sounds like your workflow is working well for you, which is the main aim I suppose. Some people find my workflow waaay too intense and structured, but horses for courses I suppose :)
 
Wouldn't you be able to do your cropping/saturation in Lightroom though? I agree with you that all my photos need at the very least some slight exposure tweaks/crops/saturation, but only a handlful of photos need extra time in Photoshop after the Lightroom edits.
 
Oh yeah, definitely.

Not sure why but I just prefer to do any adjustments in photoshop rather than in my Raw converter. It's the way I've always preferred it for some reason.

(Im wierd like that I suppose...lol)
 
No I dont think you're weird Marcel....I think there's lots of us like that.... weird! LOL

I like to use layers in photoshop, dodge and burn, cloning etc which you cant do in Lightroom.
 
I've been away from the forums for a while (not posted but the odd visit)...but now time is back on my hands and it is time to get back in to using my camera and getting outside a bit more!

I've had a really good look at Lightroom over the past day or so and I am suitably impressed. After downloading I watched almost every demonstration video out there and they really help to open up the possibilities of this software.

The folders, collections, keywords, metadata etc are fantastic for sorting photos and I have quickly found myself importing and finally getting round to sorting out my collection.

In terms of workflow I know that it is going to make a huge difference. It's non destructive approach is great....especially as I learn more about what is and is not acceptable in terms of photo presentation (I have a tendency to over saturate!!). Photoshop, although great, is just so much slower at the tasks possible within Lightroom (in my opinion anyway). I must say that once I had watched the many demo videos I was stunned at how much really is possible.

The ability to print straight from RAW and have templates etc really is a time saver for me :-)

Looks like the others here are finally getting around to sorting out easier workflows too.

Anyway, it's great to be back making a contribution and hopefully I'll be posting the odd shot....I think the last lot were the Chester Zoo meet last September!
 
Brains said:
Anyway, it's great to be back making a contribution and hopefully I'll be posting the odd shot....I think the last lot were the Chester Zoo meet last September!
Click to expand...

I think there's been about 83 Chester Zoo visits since then!! :D :lol:
 
Brains said:
The folders, collections, keywords, metadata etc are fantastic for sorting photos and I have quickly found myself importing and finally getting round to sorting out my collection.

In terms of workflow I know that it is going to make a huge difference. It's non destructive approach is great....especially as I learn more about what is and is not acceptable in terms of photo presentation (I have a tendency to over saturate!!). Photoshop, although great, is just so much slower at the tasks possible within Lightroom (in my opinion anyway). I must say that once I had watched the many demo videos I was stunned at how much really is possible.
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what I discovered. I used to hate the post-processing part of my workflow because Photoshop never felt "natural" to me, but Lightroom fits me like a glove.

BTW - I have the same tendency to over saturate!! With every photo its a struggle to move the vibrancy slider over to the right as little as possible :D
 
So how are we all finding the "collections" part of Lightroom then?

I cant see what it's for to be honest!

I download my photos from my card to a folder called Photos, and into a folder in there which is called New, whith automatically dated folders for each day I download some.

I then look in the library of lightroom and find them in that dated folder and work on each one etc. outputting them to TIFFs in other folders in my Photos folder called Landscapes, Macros etc etc.

So all my RAWs are in the NEW folder and all the final stuff are tiffs in categories.

When would I make a "collection" in lightroom and why?
 
You can make quick collections for printing, web etc. Keeps them in one place rather than having to use the 'find' or 'rating' options or searching through folders. I've found the collections really useful


On another point....is anyone finding the 'delete' option REALLY slow?

I mark a photo for deletion then select 'delete photo'. The option to remove or delete appears. The remove option is instant but the delete for a single photos seems to take forever. Anyone else experienced this? Beginning to think its some form of corrupted install.
 
I understand the quick collections function....but it was the acual Collections I was wondering about.


The delete function is slow on mine too.
 
Same with the collections....I may go out (like today) and shoot:

birds at the local RSPB sanctuary
few landscapes
Conwy Castle

etc

So, I may wish to put all my Conwy Castle photos in with other castle photos, or birds in with other birds etc...and maybe just my real keepers. A nice way to sort photos on another level I find.
 
Do you know this lightroom is probably too good!

It does so much managing I am so confused.
It seem to have stuff all over the place now....before, I knew where everything was!

so if you have a Collection called castles...... isnt that just a "Folder" called castles? and you add your castle shots from today to it?
So is COLLECTION just another name for a FOLDER?

It doesnt actually create a new folder on your hard drive called CASTLES does it?


so if you ever deleted LIghtroom your "folder/collection" called castles would be gone?
 
I import in to Lightroom ( I have a hard drive just for my photos....makes backup etc so easy)

By creating a collection you are not physically moving anything...just creating a sort of index of where things are.

My file structure is like this:

Year > Month > Day

Doing it by name e.g. castles, birds would mean having to sort them straight from the card rather than let Lightroom do it in one go and then sorting afterwards using the metadata tools.

I then let lightroom index the photos by keyword etc. I love it because it indexes by so much, camera, lens, location etc and then you can add the additional metadata. It has totally changed my workflow for the better. It's just so fast now.

I suppose you can have photos 'all over the place' but that's the beauty of Lightroom in that it carefully indexes them. As long as you are careful to index as you go then there should not be a real problem. As soon as I get back from a shoot now I just insert the CF cards, pop in a few general keywords and import. I then go through at a finer level and insert more particular keywords. Then look for my keepers and remove the rest (I never usually delete much unless it is REALLY bad).

I also love the way I can adjust exposure etc quickly. Some of the shots I took today were all too dark because I had spot metering on. Quickly remedied in Lightroom.

Have you watched some of the tutorials across other sites? Some of them are excellent and really help you to understand the intricacies of the software. Just knowing the keyboard shortcuts is a timesaver.
 
Thank you for all that!

If you look in the library on the left and see all your folders on your pc...is that where you add a collection then....or "folder" called castles for instance? or is it just in lightroom as a virtual folder. if it doesnt actually exist.....where will it appear down that left hand panel?

I will look at the tutorials...as I really want to make this work.

SOunds brilliant...when you master it. :D :lol: :thumbs:
 
I would personally recommend anyone having trouble coming to terms with Lightroom, to go and purchase and download the set of VIDEO tutorials from Luminous Landscape. They are very good, and I learnt so much.

Watching them allowed me to go from trying to learn how to use Lightroom, to doing everything in lightroom, even printing. But then it is maybe me. I don't really like to read, but watch videos.
 
Janice said:
If you look in the library on the left and see all your folders on your pc...is that where you add a collection then....or "folder" called castles for instance? or is it just in lightroom as a virtual folder. if it doesnt actually exist.....where will it appear down that left hand panel?
Click to expand...

It depends how you want to do it.

When importing you can create new folders or just import and create virtual folders. You have 4 options:

Import at current location
Copy and Import
Move and Import
DNG and import

If you are using the import at current location then you are not actually creating a new folder on your hard drive...just an index to it within Lightroom.

It all depends on how you want to work as to how you start setting up your folders.

If you create a 'folder' within Lightroom (the left hand panel) then this is a real folder on your hard drive. When you create a 'collection' this is not a real folder on your hard drive....sort of an index containing links to various real folders/files on your hard drive.

Hope this makes sense. !?!
 
Sure does........thanks!! :thumbs:
 
What's the difference between the Library in the left panel which shows all the photo files and structures of where I keep my photos on my hard drive .... and the Folders part? Because in my Folders part I have exactly the same as what is in the Library part! :shrug:
 
Well you might not import all files from a folder, or maybe not import all subfolders from a folder, so it isn't always exactly true to your folder structure, it's just that in your case (and mine too....) it's the same.
 
Well Im completely lost...have renamed half the folders in my NEW folder where I import RAWs to........havent a bloody clue what Im doing, if I should be auto importing....or where too...or what the hell is happening now.

Wish Id left well alone. :(
 
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