Lightroom v photoshop.... sort of help? opinion..

Cg_Girl

Cg_Girl

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Ok i started using Lightroom 4 as my prefered choice and started to feel quite comfortable with it and its seemingly ease of use, althought since downloading some pdf's i realise it does so much more than i ever thought so quite excited to read up and learn.

My question is i had told someone i used LR4 and they had such a look of horror saying noooooooo you must use Photoshop as you work in layers and that way you are not ruining your original image! :eek:

I am constantly flitting between the 2 because i want to learn how to use it and refuse to let it beat me tho more often revert to LR4 as i get really confused with ps and can at the moment only do the basics!

My questions is does it matter what you use? ....
 
Don't think LR ruins your original image :thinking:
Many togs only use LR so I don't think you need worry too much about what your friend says - I'm the opposite, can't get on with LR so use PS.
 
No, I think you should use what works best for you and not worry too much what others are doing. If you start to run into limitations because of your approach then maybe seek advice, but otherwise why change something that works?
 
whoever told you it ruins your original image was talking out of their bottom.

you have your original raw/jpg file and LR holds a note of applied processing and just applies that to the preview/export. the original data is unaltered.

but to answer the original question, theyre both different packages. one catalogues and basic edits, the other is just an advanced edit program.
 
SixToes said:
No, I think you should use what works best for you and not worry too much what others are doing. If you start to run into limitations because of your approach then maybe seek advice, but otherwise why change something that works?
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+1

neil_g said:
whoever told you it ruins your original image was talking out of their bottom.

you have your original raw/jpg file and LR holds a note of applied processing and just applies that to the preview/export. the original data is unaltered.
Click to expand...

+1

neil_g said:
but to answer the original question, theyre both different packages. one catalogues and basic edits, the other is just an advanced edit program.
Click to expand...

I started using Lightroom recently (for processing, not cataloguing), having previously used Photoshop for several years. I am now using Lightroom for most of my PP and Photoshop for the rest that Lightroom isn't so good at (or I'm not so good at with Lightroom, not sure which).

Despite its limitations, I have been surprised at how much I can do in Lightroom. For example, the Adjustment Brush with AutoMask on is very clever about painting the selection for the mask. The Adjustment Brush lets me do some of the things like selective noise reduction that I used layers for in Photoshop, and sometimes do them a bit quicker and easier. It makes things like selective clarity, sharpening, highlights and shadows, and even (not that I've used it yet) selective white balance quite easy and quick to apply. Combining several of the effects on a single mask is great. And being able to come back later and alter the mask and/or the effects is wonderful.

Lightroom does have some (to my way of thinking) unfortunate shortcomings, such as the lack of "invert selection/mask" and the inability to copy a mask and adjust it/use it for some other adjustments to the image. And while its shadow and highlight recovery works quite nicely, it doesn't allow nearly as much depth or fine tuning of recovery as Photoshop does.

It may be just me, and/or my type of images, but I'm not happy with Lightroom's output sharpening, so I use Photoshop for that.

And of course there are some areas it simply doesn't cover at all, like irregular warping (which I do use occasionally - but then again it does do perspective adjustments, which are probably of more use to most people).

However, after just a month of starting to use Lightroom I'm getting consistently better results with this combined Lightroom + Photoshop approach than with Photoshop by itself. (I have been testing this by going back and reprocessing images that I had previously processed quite carefully with Photoshop.)

YMMV. Of course. :)
 
The way I see work is LR is where I adjust levels, curves etc, sharpen, apply lens profiles, crop if necessary, selective lightening, darkening... that kind of stuff, then I export it as a TIFF to PS. Photoshop is a pixel editing program, and much better for actual manipulation of individual pixels, such as retouching, spotting, matting, cutting, pasting in stuff.. actually airbrushing with a pen, making composite images.. stuff like that. Yes, you should be working layers in PS. Nothing in your work flow should be irreversible if you can help it.

One compliments the other for me.
 
Tell them that Lightroom doesn't need ajustment layers as it's a parametric editor, not a pixel editor like photoshop (that should shut them up) What it means is lightroom never ajusts the original image, it's working on a sort of digital copy, it's only when you export from LR that the new image is created, leaving the original untouched.
 
I use Fast Picture Viewer for quick sorting then import to LR4 for catalogueing and any level tweaks / minor cloning / Sharpening. Then export to NAS drive. If any major changes are needed I use CS5...Its funny but I use the CS5 print module for my larger prints,even if edited in LR4.
 
gramps said:
Don't think LR ruins your original image :thinking:
Many togs only use LR so I don't think you need worry too much about what your friend says - I'm the opposite, can't get on with LR so use PS.
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I wish i could use PS i guess i just need to sit down and seriously read and practice, i have followed a couple of you tube vids recently and managed a bit more but then when i've gone to do another one it goes wrong and i can't figure out why so hissy fit usually follows:lol::lol:
 
swanseamale47 said:
Tell them that Lightroom doesn't need ajustment layers as it's a parametric editor, not a pixel editor like photoshop (that should shut them up) What it means is lightroom never ajusts the original image, it's working on a sort of digital copy, it's only when you export from LR that the new image is created, leaving the original untouched.
Click to expand...


Ah ok i get you and have never been told that so felt really guilty using it thinking i was harming it, tho i couldn't see how:thumbs:
 
Pookeyhead said:
The way I see work is LR is where I adjust levels, curves etc, sharpen, apply lens profiles, crop if necessary, selective lightening, darkening... that kind of stuff, then I export it as a TIFF to PS. Photoshop is a pixel editing program, and much better for actual manipulation of individual pixels, such as retouching, spotting, matting, cutting, pasting in stuff.. actually airbrushing with a pen, making composite images.. stuff like that. Yes, you should be working layers in PS. Nothing in your work flow should be irreversible if you can help it.

One compliments the other for me.
Click to expand...

I suppose when i fully understand ps then then it will all fall into place, i have only been editing on the pc since Aug and have so much to learn,
I do often use bits of both but at basic level as ps confuses the hell out of me:bonk:
 
GardenersHelper said:
+1



+1



I started using Lightroom recently (for processing, not cataloguing), having previously used Photoshop for several years. I am now using Lightroom for most of my PP and Photoshop for the rest that Lightroom isn't so good at (or I'm not so good at with Lightroom, not sure which).

Despite its limitations, I have been surprised at how much I can do in Lightroom. For example, the Adjustment Brush with AutoMask on is very clever about painting the selection for the mask. The Adjustment Brush lets me do some of the things like selective noise reduction that I used layers for in Photoshop, and sometimes do them a bit quicker and easier. It makes things like selective clarity, sharpening, highlights and shadows, and even (not that I've used it yet) selective white balance quite easy and quick to apply. Combining several of the effects on a single mask is great. And being able to come back later and alter the mask and/or the effects is wonderful.

Lightroom does have some (to my way of thinking) unfortunate shortcomings, such as the lack of "invert selection/mask" and the inability to copy a mask and adjust it/use it for some other adjustments to the image. And while its shadow and highlight recovery works quite nicely, it doesn't allow nearly as much depth or fine tuning of recovery as Photoshop does.

It may be just me, and/or my type of images, but I'm not happy with Lightroom's output sharpening, so I use Photoshop for that.

And of course there are some areas it simply doesn't cover at all, like irregular warping (which I do use occasionally - but then again it does do perspective adjustments, which are probably of more use to most people).

However, after just a month of starting to use Lightroom I'm getting consistently better results with this combined Lightroom + Photoshop approach than with Photoshop by itself. (I have been testing this by going back and reprocessing images that I had previously processed quite carefully with Photoshop.)

YMMV. Of course. :)
Click to expand...


I love Lightrooms adjustment brush it seems so straightforward to use, simple things like that for me in PS i still struggle with, even following tutorials one time it can go correct and i get it right yet the next it doesn't work and i have no idea why!... determined to master it without to many hissy fits i hope and see what else lightroom can do, just looking at some tutorials on here i see it does more than i realised

Also what is YMMV??:thinking:
 
Cg_Girl said:
I love Lightrooms adjustment brush it seems so straightforward to use, simple things like that for me in PS i still struggle with, even following tutorials one time it can go correct and i get it right yet the next it doesn't work and i have no idea why!... determined to master it without to many hissy fits i hope and see what else lightroom can do, just looking at some tutorials on here i see it does more than i realised

Also what is YMMV??:thinking:
Click to expand...

YMMV is "Your Mileage May Vary" - things may work out differently for you.

One of the things I'm finding really attractive about Lightroom is how easy it makes it to do things. Some of it is not obvious though just by looking at the screen (keys you can press for example to make certain things happen or make something work differently). I found out about this "hidden" stuff by reading a book and watching videos about Lightroom.

Things seem (to me at least) to work in a pretty direct and intuitive way in Lightroom. In contrast I found that in Photoshop you sometimes had to do a series of not very intuitive things to achieve some effects.

I think full Photoshop can be a bit (!) difficult for beginners; it certainly was for me. Like the GIMP, which I also tried when I started, it seemed so complicated that I was overwhelmed and couldn't get anywhere with it. (Had I slowed down, read a book or two and watched some videos, worked through tutorials etc I'm sure it would have started to make sense quite quickly, but I didn't.:()

Instead I used Photoshop Elements for a while. It was easy to use, and pretty powerful in what you could do with it. After a while I tried Photoshop again because there were a couple of things I wanted to do that I couldn't do in Elements, and this time I got on much better with it. So much so that I stopped using Elements and just used Photoshop. And even an old version like I use is very, very powerful and flexible. You do need to study and practice to exploit all that power and flexibility though, because what you have to do to use some of it isn't (for me at least) obvious and isn't something I could work out for myself just by using it.

The thing I like most about using Lightroom as well as Photoshop is that I'm getting better (to my eye) results than I was getting with Photoshop by itself (or Elements, or any of the other products I have tried).
 
GardenersHelper said:
YMMV is "Your Mileage May Vary" - things may work out differently for you.

One of the things I'm finding really attractive about Lightroom is how easy it makes it to do things. Some of it is not obvious though just by looking at the screen (keys you can press for example to make certain things happen or make something work differently). I found out about this "hidden" stuff by reading a book and watching videos about Lightroom.

Things seem (to me at least) to work in a pretty direct and intuitive way in Lightroom. In contrast I found that in Photoshop you sometimes had to do a series of not very intuitive things to achieve some effects.

I think full Photoshop can be a bit (!) difficult for beginners; it certainly was for me. Like the GIMP, which I also tried when I started, it seemed so complicated that I was overwhelmed and couldn't get anywhere with it. (Had I slowed down, read a book or two and watched some videos, worked through tutorials etc I'm sure it would have started to make sense quite quickly, but I didn't.:()

Instead I used Photoshop Elements for a while. It was easy to use, and pretty powerful in what you could do with it. After a while I tried Photoshop again because there were a couple of things I wanted to do that I couldn't do in Elements, and this time I got on much better with it. So much so that I stopped using Elements and just used Photoshop. And even an old version like I use is very, very powerful and flexible. You do need to study and practice to exploit all that power and flexibility though, because what you have to do to use some of it isn't (for me at least) obvious and isn't something I could work out for myself just by using it.

The thing I like most about using Lightroom as well as Photoshop is that I'm getting better (to my eye) results than I was getting with Photoshop by itself (or Elements, or any of the other products I have tried).
Click to expand...



Nick, Thank you so much, everything that you have said how you was in the beginning etc is me right now, I too haven't really spent anytime reading books or vids etc to get to grips with ps, hence the feeling off being overwhelmed and i'll never master it!

New mission whilst i have lost inspiration is to spend my time reading and following some tutorials and getting stuck in and taking time to learn, (instead of pressing buttons and getting confused and cross).... maybe i will finally get somewhere then!

I had a quick read of one tutorial last night and didn't realise you could press keys in Lightroom to do tasks! so i have much to learn there too!

Thank you, i don't feel quite so bad now and realise i do need to take time out and read etc :-)
 
Cg_Girl said:
Nick, Thank you so much, everything that you have said how you was in the beginning etc is me right now, I too haven't really spent anytime reading books or vids etc to get to grips with ps, hence the feeling off being overwhelmed and i'll never master it!

New mission whilst i have lost inspiration is to spend my time reading and following some tutorials and getting stuck in and taking time to learn, (instead of pressing buttons and getting confused and cross).... maybe i will finally get somewhere then!

I had a quick read of one tutorial last night and didn't realise you could press keys in Lightroom to do tasks! so i have much to learn there too!

Thank you, i don't feel quite so bad now and realise i do need to take time out and read etc :-)
Click to expand...

I think a bit of variety can help. Read a bit, watch some videos, try some things, post questions about what doesn't work the way you want it to, and be sure to enjoy it every time something else drops into place (those "ah ha" moments are really great).

Maybe try not to get locked into too much of any one approach, especially if it starts annoying you. Mix it all up to keep it fresh. And don't be afraid to just play, with no particular objective in mind, and then experiment when you do have something specific in mind. Remember, an experiment that doesn't turn out the way you expected it to, or the way you wanted it to, can be marvellously instructive if you can keep cool and follow through on "well now, that's odd, so what did happen there?"

Just rambling. :)
 
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I had the same problem before. What I normally do is I use Lightroom to basic edits, and only go into ps if I need it. Aslong as I am happy with the results that Lightroom provide, I don't go into ps at all. And Lightroom does not alter your original image. It only imports an "image" of your photo, and applies settings to it. Lightroom is not touching your original photo.

http://www.ononesoftware.com/free/

Try this out, it was really helpful to me. Try the photo suite 7 trial, and there are some free downloads aswel. In the photo suite 7 you can also use layers and effects.
 
GardenersHelper said:
I think a bit of variety can help. Read a bit, watch some videos, try some things, post questions about what doesn't work the way you want it to, and be sure to enjoy it every time something else drops into place (those "ah ha" moments are really great).

Maybe try not to get locked into too much of any one approach, especially if it starts annoying you. Mix it all up to keep it fresh. And don't be afraid to just play, with no particular objective in mind, and then experiment when you do have something specific in mind. Remember, an experiment that doesn't turn out the way you expected it to, or the way you wanted it to, can be marvellously instructive if you can keep cool and follow through on "well now, that's odd, so what did happen there?"

Just rambling. :)
Click to expand...

I like your Rambles they make sense!
 
I've only just started out with Lightroom and I'm finding it is more than capable of the simple editing I do, in fact it does more than I need. I guess it just depends how much editing power you want.

I've been working my way through Scott Kelbys book after reading many recommendations on here and its helped me loads due to the logical way you work through the different aspects of the program.

If I was in your position I would persist with LR and once you've mastered that, then you can consider PS - but only if you think LR isn't doing everything you need.
 
LR4 is fantastic. I used photoshop for years but now do 95% of my work solely in LR4.

I use Photomechanic (essential to me) to rate/cull. LR4 for all editing. Then PS/ASE4 if needed after LR4 export. It does no harm to be well versed in PS even if you're mainly a LR4 user.
 
Ideally yes I'd like to be totally comfortable with both program's, more time with you tube vids etc me thinks :-)
 
Use what you are comfortable with. For many people, LR will be better because it's more straightforward, and PS is overkill (not to mention much more expensive and considerably more time consuming to learn).
 
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