Lightroom problem with 5D MkII RAW

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Andyman

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Andy Reed
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I'm hoping someone might be able to help me here. I've been out using my new 5d MkII over the weekend and I'm quite confused now that I've loaded them into Lightroom.

The problem I have is that the RAWs seem to be coming out around 1 stop underexposed even though the preview JPG and histogram was perfect. When I import the RAW I get nicely exposed images for a few seconds whilst it shows me the JPG preview but once the RAW is rendered it becomes horrible.

As a comparison I shot with RAW+JPG enabled. The JPG is perfect but the RAW is underexposed with vignetting.

Can anyone explain what's going on here? This doesn’t happen with my 5D Mk1.

Lightroom1.jpg


Cheers,
Andy.
 
It is probably something to do with picture styles, the initial preview is based off the jpeg embedded in the RAW files, what Lightroom shows you is the actual RAW file. If it seems to be the same each time just make an import preset in Lightroom and apply that at the import stage.
 
Andyman said:
I'm hoping someone might be able to help me here. I've been out using my new 5d MkII over the weekend and I'm quite confused now that I've loaded them into Lightroom.

The problem I have is that the RAWs seem to be coming out around 1 stop underexposed even though the preview JPG and histogram was perfect. When I import the RAW I get nicely exposed images for a few seconds whilst it shows me the JPG preview but once the RAW is rendered it becomes horrible.

As a comparison I shot with RAW+JPG enabled. The JPG is perfect but the RAW is underexposed with vignetting.

Can anyone explain what's going on here? This doesn’t happen with my 5D Mk1.
Click to expand...

Since they seem vastly different and vignetting looks very strange, the only thing I can think of is the LR default settings. It is possible to change the default development settings and associate it with the camera - have you checked this? Basically when your image develops (generates that strange looking RAW preview) - go into Development module and check all the settings (including vignetting). If some of them are not their default values (sharpening, vignetting, camera profile etc) - I'd suggest to reset your defaults.
 
Its not the same every time unfortunately. Certain exposures have come out fine. I can only assume that the 5D is doing some extra processing in certain situations but I can't figure out what. I've tried disabling the following in camera but it makes no difference.

Highlight tone priority
Auto lighting optimizer
Long exposure noise reduction
High ISO noise reduction

Interestingly if I load the RAW into DPP it starts off looking dark in the preview thumb but sorts itself out when opened fully.

DPP1.jpg


Andy.
 
dalex_257 said:
Since they seem vastly different and vignetting looks very strange, the only thing I can think of is the LR default settings. It is possible to change the default development settings and associate it with the camera - have you checked this? Basically when your image develops (generates that strange looking RAW preview) - go into Development module and check all the settings (including vignetting). If some of them are not their default values (sharpening, vignetting, camera profile etc) - I'd suggest to reset your defaults.
Click to expand...

Looking at settings in the develop module all sliders are at their defaults. Hmmm... very confusing. I've also tried selecting several different calibration profiles but they make only slight adjustments. Certainly they don't get the RAW to the same level as the JPG.

Andy.
 
Lightroom has been confusing me lately too but not for the same reason.

What happens if you set all the in camera processing (contrast, sharpening etc) for jpeg to zero? Do you have default processing on import set in lightroom?

Also just a thought - did I read that the 5D2 has lens information programmed in to correct vignetting? could have dreamt that bit :lol:
 
RobertP said:
What happens if you set all the in camera processing (contrast, sharpening etc) for jpeg to zero? Do you have default processing on import set in lightroom?
Click to expand...
Hi Robert,

My standard picture settings are all at zero with the exception of sharpening. LR import develop setting was 'None'. Is that the same as default?

RobertP said:
Also just a thought - did I read that the 5D2 has lens information programmed in to correct vignetting? could have dreamt that bit :lol:
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about that. It might explain it though.

It strikes me that what I'm getting here is the camera fooling me into thinking the image is exposed correctly by showing me a processed JPG when the RAW is actually underexposed. DPP is then sorting it out in PP by applying settings to bring the exposure up. This doesn't seem quite right. I'd rather the preview histogram mirror the RAW capture to indicate the underexposure.

Andy.
 
What picture style settings are you using? As DPP is "sorting" the raw file and LR isn't that suggests it is picture styles settings, etc. that DPP reads and LR doesn't.

email me the raw file and I'll compare the settings between LR and DPP to see if I can figure out which one(s) are causing it.
 
I don't use DPP but I've seen it mentioned before that it applies the camera jpeg settings to the raw as a starting point for editing so you are looking at a processed version from the off.

I have a usual set of minor tweaks that are my starting point in lightroom editing and have saved them as default. They do show as adjustments to the sliders so if yours are all zero then I guess that can be ruled out.
 
pxl8 said:
What picture style settings are you using? As DPP is "sorting" the raw file and LR isn't that suggests it is picture styles settings, etc. that DPP reads and LR doesn't.

email me the raw file and I'll compare the settings between LR and DPP to see if I can figure out which one(s) are causing it.
Click to expand...
I'm just using the default values in Standard Picture Style. So that has sharpening but all other values at zero. I agree it sounds like some kind of style is being applied but Standard wouldn't affect it this much would it?

Thanks for the offer. I'll email the RAW through when I get home later. I'd really appreciate you having a look.

Andy.
 
Another possibility is colour management. I believe DPP has it turned off by default whilst LR has it on but I'll be able to check later once I have the raw :thumbs:
 
AFAIK LR supports HTP in raw files. Yes it increases shadow noise as the trick is to get more bandwidth in the lighter tones by pinching it from the darker ones.
 
I think I can understand the vignetting now. Robert is quite right. The 5D2 has Peripheral Illumination enabled by default which knows the characteristics of the attached lens. Apparently DPP reads this information from the RAW whereas LR doesn't.

However I'm still confused. In this example I need to add 0.2 stops of exposure compensation to the RAW in LR to match the histogram of the associated JPG.

http://www.ar-photographic.co.uk/Temp/IMG_0164.CR2 (24Mb)
http://www.ar-photographic.co.uk/Temp/IMG_0164.JPG (6Mb)

Am I expecting too much? When I shoot RAW with my 5D Mk1 I very rarely need to make adjustments. They simply load up in LR as shown in the on-camera preview/histogram.

Andy.
 
The difference in histogram is probably due the different way LR decodes the raw data and renders it. Or (and) it might be down to viewing the raw in a colour managed app and the jpg in a non-managed one.

When it comes to raw each app will give different results. Raw data is just a starting point, if you want it to match the jpg out of camera why not just stick with the jpg?

LR does have some profiles in the calibration panel that attempt to better match the picture styles but only the default values and the results aren't perfect.
 
Andyman said:
Its not the same every time unfortunately. Certain exposures have come out fine. I can only assume that the 5D is doing some extra processing in certain situations but I can't figure out what. I've tried disabling the following in camera but it makes no difference.

Highlight tone priority
Auto lighting optimizer
Long exposure noise reduction
High ISO noise reduction

Interestingly if I load the RAW into DPP it starts off looking dark in the preview thumb but sorts itself out when opened fully.
[Andy.
Click to expand...

Just a guess, but could this be the clue? Is it possible that you have 'Peripheral Illumination' enabled in the camera which is why DPP sorts itself when it reads that info in the RAW data out but Lightroom doesn't.
 
pxl8 said:
The difference in histogram is probably due the different way LR decodes the raw data and renders it. Or (and) it might be down to viewing the raw in a colour managed app and the jpg in a non-managed one.

When it comes to raw each app will give different results. Raw data is just a starting point, if you want it to match the jpg out of camera why not just stick with the jpg?

LR does have some profiles in the calibration panel that attempt to better match the picture styles but only the default values and the results aren't perfect.
Click to expand...
It sounds as though I might be expecting a bit much then. I really only shoot RAW for the odd occasion that things go wrong, typically white balance. Other than that I've been happy that given the on-camera histogram preview the exposure will be correct.

Gofer said:
Just a guess, but could this be the clue? Is it possible that you have 'Peripheral Illumination' enabled in the camera which is why DPP sorts itself when it reads that info in the RAW data out but Lightroom doesn't.
Click to expand...
I think you're right this is happening but DPP must also be applying around 0.2 stops of exposure compensation.

Thanks for your advice. I'm not hearing anyone saying this is incredibly unusual so maybe I've been lucky with my Mk1 in that they so often come out of the camera so spot-on.

Andy.
 
My 5D images require very little adjustment in LR too. My old 20D always needs a fair bit of tweaking by comparison.
 
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