Lightroom, how much space is it saving me and at what cost?

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fixedimage

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Edit My Images
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So I have Lightroom 3 which i use along with Silver Efex Pro to do 95% of my editing work. I have PhotoShop CS3 for what LR and SEP cannot do.

I like the way that the modules and stuff work in LR but I really don't like the cataloguing system and I am worried about what I'd lose if I had an HD failure.

I used to only keep about 6 months worth of images on my internal HD and archive stuff out to a couple of external drives but LR was so slow at accessing these that about 6 months ago, I had a major clear out, deleted about 400gb of images and moved everything back onto the internal drive (I still have one copy of EVERYTHING from before the clearout on one of my external HDs).

My backup situation now is 1 external HD which Time Machine runs onto and 2 others onto which I regularly copy the dated folders that LR creates and imports my images into.

When I'm working in LR if I edit a pic in SEP or Photoshop I choose the 'edit a copy' option so there is another version of the image created which sits beside the original in the dated folder and gets copied across to the external drives unless of course I go back to before the last time I copied stuff across and edit a file. Ie, I do a backup on the 20th of a weeks worth of new images then on the 22nd I edit an image from the 18th, when I come to backup again on say, the 30th, there's already a folder for the 18th on my backup drives so I won't copy that folder across again so the image I edited/created on the 22nd won't be backed up. It would be impractical to look through previous folders to find new edited images every time I backup.

There should be a copy of it in my Time Machine drive but I'd like to have more than one back up of everything.

Also, say I edit an image purely in LR, I might export a 72ppi jpeg to post on my blog or to Flickr etc but I'll delete that exported jpeg as soon as it's uploaded and then the only copy I have of the edited image is in LR. I'll have the original backed up but not a copy of all the work I might have done to it. I know LR asks to backup the catalogue but I've never actually been able to use one of these backups to retrieve anything that I've deleted by accident.

So, finally getting to my point, what I'm now thinking is that instead of leaving edited images in the dated folders or to only exist in LR, I should be exporting full res PSDs or TIFFs of anything I edit and backing up these edited files.
 
I didn't actually manage to follow all that but is part of the answer that Lightroom does not save your actual images, just the data that goes with them (keywords, exif, change etc). You are backing up your information rather than the actual pictures which is why if you delete a picture Lightroom does not retrieve it.
 
You're not really understanding Lightroom! LR does not store your images - it stores the position of your images in it's catalogue. You can't use LR without the catalogue! As soon as you import your images they are in a catalogue. You can backup your images wherever you like - and movement of the originals to different locations should be done from within LR. Have a look at some of the videos on the Adobe site.
 
Haha yeah it was a bit long winded eh?

I think I have a few problems.

1. I don't understand the LR catalogue back up system.
2. When I'm editing images I'm saving them in the folder that has the original in it, this folder might already have been backed up (manually) and so the edited images don't always get backed up
3. If you edit an image in LR, lets say you go from colour to b&w, then unless you export the edited b&w image it doesn't exist anywhere other than in LR, on the harddrive there is only the original colour version. I have only backed up the original colour version, if anything were to happen to my mac I'd only be able to retreive the original colour file from my external backup drives and I would have lost the b&w version and all that work.
 
When you edit in Lightroom all you are doing is creating a list of changes to be applied to the original. What you look at on screen in Lightroom changes to show what those edits will look like but no picture file is created.

The list of changes is saved in Lightrooms catalogue. If you have a new computer because of a crash and a backup of the original picture files and the lightroom catalogue then you still have the edit list and can view your pictures with the changes in your new lightroom installation.

If you want a new picture file with the changes then you Export from Lightroom not 'save'.
 
You must back up the Lightroom Catalogue - I do mine daily. Then you won't lose your edits.
 
I use LR to download my images, I choose 'copy and convert' so LR copies the images from my card, converts them to DNG and puts them in a dated folder on the drive.

So the catalog backups store the changes you make?
Backing up the actual; image file has to done separately?

Maybe that's one thing cleared up in my head then.

Maybe.
 
Now to sort out my back up system.
Is there any software, pref cheap or free that I can get that will automatically backup my new images and update the old backups with new work too?
I suppose I could use TimeMachine to do backups to all 3 of my external drives but I'd rather just back up my Pictures folder and what is within it.
 
Windows has back up software that will do that.
 
I use a mixture of time machine, carbon copy cloner and chrono sync in my backup strategy
 
I use Time Machine (to Time Capsule) and Carbon Copy Cloner for offsite backup of my operating system disk.

To back up my external archive disks (one is NAS, one is portable and usually lives off site) I use Get Backup Pro from the App store, it isn't the fastest application, but it seems to be better than the other backup applications I've tried.
 
fixedimage said:
I use LR to download my images, I choose 'copy and convert' so LR copies the images from my card, converts them to DNG and puts them in a dated folder on the drive.

So the catalog backups store the changes you make?
Backing up the actual; image file has to done separately?

Maybe that's one thing cleared up in my head then.

Maybe.
Click to expand...

In your case as you are using the DNG format if you sync the images in LR then all keywords,IPTC info you have added and any processing will be saved in the DNG file itself.

So even if you move the file outside of LR and delete it from the LR Catalog, then when you re-import it at any time the info will be restored in LR, that colour image you changed to B&W in LR will still show as a B&W when you import it again.:)
 
OlyPaul said:
In your case as you are using the DNG format if you sync the images in LR then all keywords,IPTC info you have added and any processing will be saved in the DNG file itself.

So even if you move the file outside of LR and delete it from the LR Catalog, then when you re-import it at any time the info will be restored in LR, that colour image you changed to B&W in LR will still show as a B&W when you import it again.:)
Click to expand...

Didn't know that.
 
There's an option to select to make sure Lightroom automatically does this.
 
Craikeybaby said:
There's an option to select to make sure Lightroom automatically does this.
Click to expand...

Any idea where this'd be?

In Catalog Settings there's an option to 'Include Develop setting in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF and PSD files but I'm not seeing anything about DNG.
 
I can't remember off the top of my head, I'll have a look when I get back to my Mac, unless anyone can chime in first.

In grid view in the library module there is a down arrow at the top of each image if the metadata is not up to date. There is also a parameter in the metadata section called metadata date, you can check how recent that is too.
 
awp said:
You must back up the Lightroom Catalogue - I do mine daily. Then you won't lose your edits.
Click to expand...

You also wont lose them if you store the changes as a separate sidecar file - I think its xmp from memory.

This stores the changes only, and is located alongside the original.

Then if you lose you catalog, you dont lose your edits. You do this by going to Edit-Catalog Settings.

Place a tick in the "Automatically Write changes to XMP" and this will then be fine.
 
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fixedimage said:
Any idea where this'd be?

In Catalog Settings there's an option to 'Include Develop setting in metadata inside JPEG, TIFF and PSD files but I'm not seeing anything about DNG.
Click to expand...

It's the one below that, automatically write changes into XMP
 
barneyrubble said:
You also wont lose them if you store the changes as a separate sidecar file - I think its xmp from memory.

This stores the changes only, and is located alongside the original.

Then if you lose you catalog, you dont lose your edits. You do this by going to Edit-Catalog Settings.

Place a tick in the "Automatically Write changes to XMP" and this will then be fine.
Click to expand...

True but you can still lose them, if you forget and move the images with another program that does not automaticly move the XMP file with the image, Windows and a few others come to mind.

You do not have this worry with DNG as the XMP is in the image itself and not a seperete sidecar file,DNG files takes longer to write the info to than XMP, swings and rounderbouts.:)
 
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I wasnt discussing the merits of xmp vs dng - merely the fact that you can store the changes outside of the catalog.
 
barneyrubble said:
I wasnt discussing the merits of xmp vs dng - merely the fact that you can store the changes outside of the catalog.
Click to expand...

Sorry if I upset you Barny.

But I was just trying to keep it relevant to the OP's problem and his workflow where sidecar files are not really relevant .

I use LR to download my images, I choose 'copy and convert' so LR copies the images from my card, converts them to DNG and puts them in a dated folder on the drive.
Click to expand...
 
Agreed, however, incorrect/incomplete information needs to be corrected, as if the changes arent stored in the catalog (XMP, DNG or whatever) then if you lose the catalog its no huge problem - as has happened to me more than once :lol::lol::lol:

And I wasnt upset - takes a bit more than that :naughty:
 
So if I'm using DNGs I still need to select 'automagically write changes to XMP' pr does using DNG mean this happens anyway?
 
I leave it checked to be on the safe side. But if you are interested in finding out you can use the metadata date/metadata status properties to see if it is getting written automatically.
 
Rather than considering backing up your 'manual backup' from LR, why not use timemachine or carboncopycloner to backup to those external drive as well? Saves you a full additional step of manually doing stuff that gets done anyway.
 
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