Lightmeter Tuition Please

alpina

alpina

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Andy
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I bought a Sekonic 308b from Bawbee a while ago and use it in the studio at college with great success . My problem is that I dont know how to use it outside to measure light. It didn't have the instructions but I have looked on the web and found some for the 308s which looks similar in design but for the life of me cant work out.

What I would like to be able to do is go out with my etrs film camera and use the light meter to work out my exposure setting's.

Any thoughts?
 
If you go to the seconic website there are great articles there on using them and also the differences between the in camera and hand held meters. Hope that helps :)
 
Thanks Ali, I had looked there already and still felt a little stuck.

My understanding so far is ; I slide the white cover back and point from my camera to the subject. (sorry poor description). I checked with my d300;s meter and it seems off by a few stops at times.
 
dont slide the white cover back, thats a dome so that you get a more accurate reading for the light around...nt just from one spot.

to take a studio reading, set your ISO and point it at the camera from where the subject is, the light will flash and you will get your reading.

for outside:
press the mode button and you will see a small logo change from a little lightning to a sun)
once you are on that setting you use it the same as in the studio (just dont need to plug in the sync lead)

hope that helps.
 
Danger_Mouse said:
dont slide the white cover back, thats a dome so that you get a more accurate reading for the light around...nt just from one spot.

to take a studio reading, set your ISO and point it at the camera from where the subject is, the light will flash and you will get your reading.

for outside:
press the mode button and you will see a small logo change from a little lightning to a sun)
once you are on that setting you use it the same as in the studio (just dont need to plug in the sync lead)

hope that helps.
Click to expand...

:D Getting there, do I point from camera position or from subject to camera?
 
alpina said:
:D Getting there, do I point from camera position or from subject to camera?
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Take an incident reading from the subject position pointing back towards the camera.
 
You need to measure the light falling on the subject, so take the meter reading from the subjects position, with the meter pointing towards the camera
 
Brilliant so far guys, thanks. However what if I wanted to photograph a landscape?
 
alpina said:
Brilliant so far guys, thanks. However what if I wanted to photograph a landscape?
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That's the beauty of an incident reading - as long as the light falling on your mostly distant landscape is the same light you're standing in, the reading will be good. That's what incident means - the light 'incident upon' or falling upon your subject rather than the light reflected from it

The other option for landscape is a spot reading if your meter has the facility, but that relies on metering on the correct tone for the scene, so needs a fair bit of interpretation on your part.
 
Hi Alpina

I think you should ponit the meter back towards the light source and not the camera, (I got the advice from Mark Cleghorn), so if you have metered the light towards the source then you can alter your camera position, to get differnt angles etc, without changing the exposure settings.

I think this is the case but do check it out for yourself.


God bless
Dave
 
That's the way I've used mine Dave and for the same reason :)

If you are using it the studio, meter each light independantly and point the meter from the subject toward each light in turn, (with the others switched off)

One application where a light meter is invaluable is a window lit portrait, the camera sees a different value to the light meter due to the camera reading reflected light and often the camera will overexpose in that situation. Of couse, once you learn that it does this you can look out for it and adjust acoordingly, or you can use a light meter towards the light source and get it right first time ;)
 
Don't know if you know, but you can download the manual from Sekonics site.

Kev.
 
AliB said:
If you are using it the studio, meter each light independantly and point the meter from the subject toward each light in turn, (with the others switched off)
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I'v had a question about this I've been to embarased to ask for a while. If you meter each light individually and for example you are using one key light and one fill once they're both switched on will the overall light be greater than the key light or should the camera settings be left at the key light reading?
 
The overall light will be exactly what the camera sees and therefore what you should expose for. The advantage of measuring each light individually is so that you can measure the balance between the lights - the lighting ratio - and adjust for the effect you want to achieve.
 
So once you've established the ratio you then need to meter again with both lights switched on. Fair enough.
 
I don't Kev. Give me a mo till I go and check out a tutorial on it. BRB
 
Okies, went and watched Mark Cleghorn's tutorial again :)

Workflow:

Meter keylight (usually works to f8)
Meter fill to 1 1/2 stops less
Meter background to give desired effect (plus 2 stops for high key, minus three for black)
Meter any accessory lights such as hair light ( minus 1 1/2 for blonde)

The camera is set to f8, the exposure of the key light and all the other lights are metered from the level of key light anyway. (hence minus or plus from f8, the key light)

You don't meter toward the camera and you don't need to meter with all the lights on either :)

hope that helps.
 
Remember the joy of digital is that you can check your results instantly - and make further adjustments! :)
 
AliB said:
Okies, went and watched Mark Cleghorn's tutorial again :)

Workflow:

Meter keylight (usually works to f8)
Meter fill to 1 1/2 stops less
Meter background to give desired effect (plus 2 stops for high key, minus three for black)
Meter any accessory lights such as hair light ( minus 1 1/2 for blonde)

The camera is set to f8, the exposure of the key light and all the other lights are metered from the level of key light anyway. (hence minus or plus from f8, the key light)

You don't meter toward the camera and you don't need to meter with all the lights on either :)

hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ali:thumbs: Don't suppose you know what you should meter hair lights for fo darker hair?


awp said:
Remember the joy of digital is that you can check your results instantly - and make further adjustments! :)
Click to expand...

I prefer the joy of Astia and Neopan;)

Thanks everyone, TP comes up trumps again.
 
Excellent stuff , really really well explained Ali:thumbs:
 
Hi Kev, yes you can put more light onto darker hair than you can blonde, all to do with the amount of light the darker subject can absorb :)

Don't forget, a fill light is to be found right at the front of a set, usually well away from the subject and it there to lift the shadows only hence it should be providing 1 1/2 stops less on your subject. This is one good reason to meter the lights independantly. If your key light was on at the same time, it would make accurate metering of your fill kind of tricky :)

Key light f8, fill 1 1/2 less, background to taste, hairlight dependant on colour (-1 or -1 1/2) add camera and model and enjoy :)
 
AliB said:
Hi Kev, yes you can put more light onto darker hair than you can blonde, all to do with the amount of light the darker subject can absorb :)
/QUOTE]

The reflectivity and density of the hair also affects the amount of light needed (enormously).
For example, blond hair is about half the thickness of brunette, red hair is somewhere between the two, and afro hair is much thicker than caucasian. And shiny, good condition hair is much more reflective than dull hair.

More reasons why you need to meter:)
And remember too that when you're metering hair, it needs to be a reflective reading, not an incident one, so that the meter can see the effect that the light has on the hair.
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Garry Edwards said:
And remember too that when you're metering hair, it needs to be a reflective reading, not an incident one, so that the meter can see the effect that the light has on the hair.
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If I'm then doing a reflective metering for hair do you have to apply the same exposure compensation principles to the light and dark tones? What I mean is, if I take a reflective metering of something dark using my camera it will normally over expose as it tries to render the dark tones to a mid tone and if I meter a white dress it will under expose it. Does this then need to be applied to the reflective metering of blonde/dark hair? If so, we're starting to make things very complicated for my simple little mind.
 
Kev,
I see what you mean but it's so simple that even I can do it...

In the studio, we normally take incident readings to make sure that the subject gets the 'correct' exposure, i.e. we measure the light that is incident upon the subject not that is reflected from it, so that the exposure isn't skewed by the tone of the subject - but when we're adding any kind of effect light, as with a hairlight, we want to know how much effect the extra, local light is having on the part of the subject that we're trying to change. If we took an incident reading of the hairlight the reading wouldn't take any account of the colour, tone, density or reflectivity of the hair so it would be pretty useless. A reflective reading takes all of this into account, so if (for example) the overall meter reading is f/11 and you want the hair to be 1 stop brighter, you simply set the lighting power of the hairlight so that it reads f/16 by reflective light.

With a bit of practice, you'll soon know what '1 stop' actually means, i.e. how much brighter it will look, and of course 1 stop is only an example, not a suggestion.

When metering in ambient light, using your camera, you may want to dial in some compensation to take account of the tones/colours of the subject - but not in the studio. Simply overexposing the hair, or part of the hair, by 1 stop relative to the rest of the subject is adding compensation
 
BouncyMelons said:
Okies, went and watched Mark Cleghorn's tutorial again :)

Workflow:

Meter keylight (usually works to f8)
Meter fill to 1 1/2 stops less
Meter background to give desired effect (plus 2 stops for high key, minus three for black)
Meter any accessory lights such as hair light ( minus 1 1/2 for blonde)

The camera is set to f8, the exposure of the key light and all the other lights are metered from the level of key light anyway. (hence minus or plus from f8, the key light)

You don't meter toward the camera and you don't need to meter with all the lights on either :)

hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Hi. apologies if the answer is really obvious, i'm just starting with studio lighting - my question is, if the studio lights have the power settings on them, and you know the output of the key light, why bother to meter the others when you can just set them to (for example) 1 1/2 stops less for fill?
 
karfeef said:
Hi. apologies if the answer is really obvious, i'm just starting with studio lighting - my question is, if the studio lights have the power settings on them, and you know the output of the key light, why bother to meter the others when you can just set them to (for example) 1 1/2 stops less for fill?
Click to expand...

Well, I don't agree with that advice, far too simplistic to say that (for example) the fill light should be 1 1/2 stops less or that a white background should be 2 stops more (actually a recipe for failure having it that bright) but to get to your question...

The power settings on the lights won't help you at all. Changing the modifier fitted to the light will change the flash energy enormously, and so will changing the distance.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Kev,
I see what you mean but it's so simple that even I can do it...

In the studio, we normally take incident readings to make sure that the subject gets the 'correct' exposure, i.e. we measure the light that is incident upon the subject not that is reflected from it, so that the exposure isn't skewed by the tone of the subject - but when we're adding any kind of effect light, as with a hairlight, we want to know how much effect the extra, local light is having on the part of the subject that we're trying to change. If we took an incident reading of the hairlight the reading wouldn't take any account of the colour, tone, density or reflectivity of the hair so it would be pretty useless. A reflective reading takes all of this into account, so if (for example) the overall meter reading is f/11 and you want the hair to be 1 stop brighter, you simply set the lighting power of the hairlight so that it reads f/16 by reflective light.

With a bit of practice, you'll soon know what '1 stop' actually means, i.e. how much brighter it will look, and of course 1 stop is only an example, not a suggestion.

When metering in ambient light, using your camera, you may want to dial in some compensation to take account of the tones/colours of the subject - but not in the studio. Simply overexposing the hair, or part of the hair, by 1 stop relative to the rest of the subject is adding compensation
Click to expand...

That is a brilliant explanation Garry, thanks very much.
 
Some good clear advice on this thread.

I must admit I tend to setup for ballpark (say f/8 1/250 200 for studio or different for outside) then take a pic with each light in isolation to see the effect on the subject. Salt and Pepper to taste, checking histo and blinkie's along the way. Within a couple of mins bobs your uncle without the use of a meter.

With that said I have an L-358 which I used to use for double checking but is now largely redundant. Not sure I'll ever have the use for one again......
 
kalibre said:
Some good clear advice on this thread.

I must admit I tend to setup for ballpark (say f/8 1/250 200 for studio or different for outside) then take a pic with each light in isolation to see the effect on the subject. Salt and Pepper to taste, checking histo and blinkie's along the way. Within a couple of mins bobs your uncle without the use of a meter.

With that said I have an L-358 which I used to use for double checking but is now largely redundant. Not sure I'll ever have the use for one again......
Click to expand...

i know i might be a total newb when it comes to studio lighting, but i gotta admit, after reading countless material and threads on the use of lighting and meters and so on, i'm still failing to see the benefit of a seperate light meter over taking a few test shots and adjusting as required, surely after some experience you would begin to just know, at least in the close ballpark what the settings/distances would be anyway - it's not as if you're going to waste film by getting it wrong for a few shots...hmmmm
 
kalibre said:
Some good clear advice on this thread.

I must admit I tend to setup for ballpark (say f/8 1/250 200 for studio or different for outside) then take a pic with each light in isolation to see the effect on the subject. Salt and Pepper to taste, checking histo and blinkie's along the way. Within a couple of mins bobs your uncle without the use of a meter.

With that said I have an L-358 which I used to use for double checking but is now largely redundant. Not sure I'll ever have the use for one again......
Click to expand...

karfeef said:
i know i might be a total newb when it comes to studio lighting, but i gotta admit, after reading countless material and threads on the use of lighting and meters and so on, i'm still failing to see the benefit of a seperate light meter over taking a few test shots and adjusting as required, surely after some experience you would begin to just know, at least in the close ballpark what the settings/distances would be anyway - it's not as if you're going to waste film by getting it wrong for a few shots...hmmmm
Click to expand...

I agree, but only up to a point. If you have a three light set, or more, it is just easier to use a meter to set the different ratios. Good for learning too. Having said that, if you tend to use just a few regular set ups for portraits or whatever, the lighting isn't going to vary much so take a few notes and measurements, draw a quick diagram, and just copy the settings.

But I always revert to the LCD/histogram/blinkies for setting the final exposure level. It is more accurate, is often slightly different to what the meter says, and I often modify it a bit (expose to the right) to get an optimum result.

TBH, for someone who's pushed to afford a studio kit for £200-300 in the first place, another £100 or so on a meter is a luxury you can do without.
 
food for thought, thank you.

I guess if someone is going to do portraits in someone elses home, there will be differences in ambient lighting, so even if the strobe positioning is the same, would it would be worth using a meter, even just to make sure the ratio is correct rather than click n chimp?

(apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread btw)
 
karfeef said:
food for thought, thank you.

I guess if someone is going to do portraits in someone elses home, there will be differences in ambient lighting, so even if the strobe positioning is the same, would it would be worth using a meter, even just to make sure the ratio is correct rather than click n chimp?

(apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread btw)
Click to expand...

The ambient light is pretty irrelevant.
But nobody will (should) position the strobe positions the same for every shot - lighting is about complimenting the subject with the quality of the light, not just producing lighting quantity
 
karfeef said:
food for thought, thank you.

I guess if someone is going to do portraits in someone elses home, there will be differences in ambient lighting, so even if the strobe positioning is the same, would it would be worth using a meter, even just to make sure the ratio is correct rather than click n chimp?

(apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread btw)
Click to expand...


No No.... keep them coming.. learning lots.

One of my tutors is Steve Smith who worked in London for a good while photographing the rich and famous etc. He tought us to use a light meter in the studio by first going for say f16 on the background lights (high key) Left light at f16 switch off and then the right one at f16. Switch them both on and it was always more than f16.

Then we meter the keylight etc. After we grasped the concept he showed us how to do it without a meter:thumbs:
 
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